Non-violence isn't working, time to knock some heads

Originally posted by benrl
Beware the Agent Provocateur...


the system can work, if we take part in it.

The system will always function as it has, with your participation.
Engaging with the system is all the system needs for it too function in this way.
The moment the people of a country or the world at the same time say "No More", and stop being a part of that system, it begins a terminal decline.
Do Not participate.

Originally posted by benrl
Beware the Agent Provocateur...

the system can work, if we take part in it.

Really?

Then I'll ask you a couple of questions ...

Did you, partake action in the Iraq war of zodomising, agreeing to or using radioactive weapons that leave thousands of children deformed beyond recognition?

Did you, deside to go to war in Afghanistan ... and agree to use of artillery fire to shoot nomands walking with a donkey in the desert of their own home country?

Did you, agree to the use of force in Lybia, and to work side-by-side with Al-Qaida to overthrow the government there?

Are you, agreeing to work side-by-side with Al-Qaida in Syria, to overthrow and murder the president of Syria?

Did you, agree to that peaceful protesters be beaten and forcibly removed from the streets of their own country?

Did you, agree to that police beat up and kill homeless people for having nowhere to go, but the streets of their own country?

And do you think, that telling the people who sodomized people in Abu Grahib, murdered and raped Children, and murdered infants, in Iraq, Vietnam ... that telling them, will make them feel guilty for their actions? Do you think it is justice, that those who maneuvered these actions, can live their lives in Luxury in the United States, while people of other countries, are executed in Haag, for less crimes.

If you are a part of this act, then I suggest you prepare yourself for war ... because WE WILL NOT, today nor tomorrow forgive, or forget this work. And justice will be served, wether today or tomorrow or a hundred years from now.

reply to post by Jubosh


you sound like someone ready to go shoot up a Mall, all thats going to do is help make gun control stronger. that makes prices go up on ammo. try the stealth aproach plan on going to work use cash instead of plastik stay out of the light.you cant fight the man with force there are to many...if every one went to work got off the plastic the all amercan way spend more than you have will only make you a slave buy a gun& blow your brains out..some of use are trying to feed our family i cant wate untill your kind gos nuts, ill get to set back in the woods and stop working for the man.and do a little more fishing & hunting your poodle will be good fryed...for now ill teach my kids how to skin a dear work hard for what they get dont buy it if you cant pay for it.my banker shakes my hand his poodle will taste good fryed to, hehe

reply to post by bjarneorn

Really?

Maybe I just think its better not to add your voice to a thread from someone who has been a member for a year, and has very little post, who advocates violence. Seems a good way to get a list going of undesirables.

Christ people are you guys that dense...

And OP, do not forget that you cannot act on your own accord as a single individual. Even if you think the peaceful acts, are bad ... and that action needs to be done, you are probably right. But any such action, must be done by a governing force ... and not by individuals, acting on their own accord. You can voice your concern, your anger and make a sign ... scream, yiell and clench your fist against those who did it.

But You CANNOT act, unless it is an act done by a party that has a governing element ... and that any actions, are a coordinated act, with clear and set goals.

You cannot act, out of vengence ... that serves no purpose.

The purpose of the "peace" is to win the hearts and minds of the people ... when that is done, then and only then can actions be taken.

reply to post by XeroOne


thats tyhe thing tough , In order to have a political party recognised you have to pay a fee to start it !
why should we have to pay a fee to be recognised in a free democratic society?

it's not right and puts blockades up to anyone with political aspirations and anyone willing to try and benefit society through the poltical field !

We need like a national week off from work so we can all meet in large groups and discuss. I think when people visualize how many agree with them and have similar views, more will happen. You gotta get the common working fellow to intermingle withe the groups around them and visa versa. We are. To segregraded with labels

Originally posted by sapien82
reply to post by XeroOne

 

thats tyhe thing tough , In order to have a political party recognised you have to pay a fee to start it !
why should we have to pay a fee to be recognised in a free democratic society?

it's not right and puts blockades up to anyone with political aspirations and anyone willing to try and benefit society through the poltical field !

You don't need a party though. It's a matter of starting off as a local representative of some sort, then being in a position to stop a lot of bullsh!t in your home town. You build support from there, get voted into a regional position, then raise a little cash to stand in another election. Stop freely giving up your constitutional rights, and call bull# whenever a cop tries playing lawyer.

Yippee! Let's shift from one version of pathocratic, xenophobic, secrecy-worshipping vampire scum and twits of a ruling class who need to believe they're (at least effectively) the center of the universe to ANOTHER version as such. "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss."

NOTHING will ever TRULY change unless we're somehow able to get rid of the secrecy-BASED underlying concept of government in general, across the board, no exceptions. I don't see how it can happen without some kind(s) of intervention or help from the intelligently unseen (IU), and obviously outside any religious crap. Please quit confusing religion with spirituality, to whom it applies... Rant over.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by Jubosh

 

I'm sure there are people saying the same thing about you. And when they show up with a 12 gauge telling you how much they want to blow your head off, you'll be singing an entirely different story. You want to solve things with violence? Then you don't have a brain.

Martin Luther King and Ghandi and Jesus all changed the world. Did they use violence? Never.

And here's one other thing: violence teaches fear and respect. Beat a dog and it will submit. But what will happen when you lose that stick while the dog is sitting there? You will not always have that stick. And we will not always have the upper hand.

Violence teaches fear, but kindness teaches love. And in the end, I would rather be respected out of love than fear.

edit on 2-7-2012 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

This is a good post. I would suggest that we still need to consider the flip side by saying that when the mad dog shows up at our feet, when the Hitlers, Stalins, Pol Pots are knocking on our doors, it's time to pick up that stick and kick some ass.

MacArthur, Eisenhower, Lincoln, also changed the world, but not peacefully but rather by kicking some ass that needed kicking.

Not everyone listens to reason, not everyone acts logically and non-violently. There are defective human beings out there. As a cop friend of mine used to say, "some people just need to take a beating."

reply to post by XeroOne


I see what your saying but in the UK we dont have constitutional rights , just he bill of rights which is rather outdated and still refers to the monarch and blah blah blah

it would be wise for us in the UK to form a party and push for immediate political reform.

Hence Stumason an ATS member has actively tired to create a party democracy in action
(direct democracy) and has a facebook page.

In order to beat the system we have to engage and be part of it !

and we can beat them at their own game , if we create a manifesto that will wipe everyother manifesto of the board
based on facts and logic , with liberty and justice for all !

Originally posted by Jubosh

# will hit the fan, which side will you be on?

[color=cyan]*psy$p

Violence WILL only get many people rounded up and locked away as if thats the plan to taunt the masses into ignorance behavior. MAYBE THEIR voices ARE HEARD like prayers, but by those who can do something about it. I dont think its a good look to entice many already ready to go there OP.

Originally posted by benrl
Christ people are you guys that dense...

We already are on a list of undesirables, wether we advocate violence or not ... that is WHY I think many are starting to advocate violence.

There is no freedom of thought or opinion. We live under suppression, and oppression ... and as the OP says, trying to demonstrate and voice ones concerns, or trying to uphold the values we were raised to believe in from birth, only brings down ... as your rightly suggested ... fascists playing God, to decide our fate and death, because we do not think the way they want us to.

We become undesirables because we believe in the values we were taught at birth.

Originally posted by Jubosh
This is getting sad everywhere I go its non violence and peace and #. If that was a solution the governments /corporations/whoever you thinks in charge, wouldn't be stealing lying and robbing everyone blind FFS, people wake up. Where the dissent get mad and start kicking asses, next time they tell you to get off the lawn burn them down, it time for people to get mad and get together, if ya got 50000 people behind ya don't be a pussy and back down, MARCH!!!!!

this isn't just for any specific group or country this is for EVERYONE, people will not get with PEACE, without money or power you only have numbers on your side, so stop leaving after your failed protest, raise dissent raise your banners, raze whatever the # is in your way, (pun intended)

IF YOU ARE FIGHTING CRIMINALS YOU cannot use peaceful methods, you must use justice

"In the absence of justice, what is sovereignty but organized robbery?"
Saint Augustine

"Though force can protect in emergency, only justice, fairness, consideration and cooperation can finally lead men to the dawn of eternal peace."
"Peace and justice are two sides of the same coin."
Dwight D. Eisenhower

# will hit the fan, which side will you be on?

I recall Semper once posing the question of, "Why do you all want the # to hit the fan?" "Doesn't this scare you?" It's simple, we want revolution. The self made men/women and corporations at the top will fall. It's inevetible. This is why so many poor people are all for the # hitting the fan. THEY HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE.

Stirring the pot like this thread is doing doesn't do much. When it starts though, it will be fast and ugly. You may regret ever saying that violence was needed. Those that promote peace understand just how bumpy the road down the path of violence can be. And some really don't give a # anymore.

Originally posted by The X

Originally posted by benrl
Beware the Agent Provocateur...


the system can work, if we take part in it.

The system will always function as it has, with your participation.
Engaging with the system is all the system needs for it too function in this way.
The moment the people of a country or the world at the same time say "No More", and stop being a part of that system, it begins a terminal decline.
Do Not participate.

EXACTLY. I love how, without a doubt, most people in here calling for violence are also the ones supporting the system on a daily base.

Do you guys have a nice expensive smartphone? Buy products from major brands? Eat prepared food? Watch TV sometimes? How about a movie? Do you practice self-sufficiency? How many of you keep a vegetable garden? How many of you buy your products locally? How many of you support people in your community that try to do good? How many of you follow laws because otherwise you'll get a fine?

There never was a need for violence, you people are part of the problem just like the so called sheeple, you feed the system you despise so much, only to declare war on it but ALL THE WHILE STILL SUPPORTING IT.

UNHOOK YOURSELF. Realize you're part of the problem, then do something about it.

Please explain to me how violence is going to change ANYTHING?? The "leaders" of these movements, will they not take the place of current leaders? Will they not eventually become lazy and greedy just like them? What starts as a revolution, always ends the same, we're LIVING PROOF of that but you people seem to be too stupid to figure that out. It ALWAYS ends the same, but we haven't tried total disobedience yet. In combination with informing people in a GENTLE manner (instead of calling them sheep, that really works great )
this is the only thing that can work and continue to work.

First, people need to know, second, people need to want it bad enough to participate in the disobedience, but the sad part is, even most people on here are not ready to be disobedient.

FEAR is what gets to people, because if you stop doing that job you hate so much, you don't earn money, you can't buy that new phone you like, or those fancy clothes, well guess what, neither can I and I'm perfectly happy, even happier than I was when I still believed I needed all those things. If you disobey a ridiculous law you'll get a fine, so you don't do it, simple! Logical? NO. Not at all. The government tells you medical marijuana is illegal, meanwhile, that same gov has a PATENT ON IT for medical use????

US Patent 6630507 titled “Cannabinoids as antioxidants and neuroprotectants”

“Cannabinoids have been found to have antioxidant properties, unrelated to NMDA receptor antagonism. This new found property makes cannabinoids useful in the treatment and prophylaxis of wide variety of oxidation associated diseases, such as ischemic, age-related, inflammatory and autoimmune diseases.The cannabinoids are found to have particular application as neuroprotectants, for example in limiting neurological damage following ischemic insults, such as stroke and trauma, or in the treatment of neurodegenerative diseases, such as Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease and HIV dementia.”

What kind of f*cking insane planet are we living on here?? "Hey guys, we have something that has medical value, but yeah, you people get "crazy" ideas when you're on it so sorry, it's still illegal, but we'll patent it anyway, cheers!"



Anyway, I'm against violence, I'll never resort to violence, it's primitive and a disgrace to our species that is capable of SO MUCH MORE than beating each other in the head with a stick. Violent movements will NEVER attract enough people, especially not the ones that are still asleep, how do you think the media will report on violent protests? Forgot what happened in London not so long ago?? You can have all the reasons in the world, unless 1 billion people join you, it WILL. NOT. WORK.

Where I live, they love to use the word "anarchists" every time something bad happens that was done by protesters or the like, for example, when two women recently drove a fire bomb into a Greek hospital, they were called "anarchists". This pisses me off so much, I am an anarchist, it was never about violence, but people listen to MSM and instantly go "ooh, anarchism, bad!". Get rid of government by removing your dependance of it, slowly and step by step, it will take time, but the process is worth it, and imo the only way to rid us of this evil. We need to evolve beyond the need for hierarchy, IT DOESN'T WORK. All men are equal, nobody owns me, nobody tells me what I can and can't, should or shouldn't do, nobody. But I'm not going violent over it, I just do as I please, and so should others, once there are enough of us, nothing can stop it, unless they're going to build a giant prison somewhere for all the bad people who don't obey.

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

Thomas Jefferson

Once again activism rears its head. The T&C's are pretty clear:

15e.) Recruitment/Solicitation:

i) You will not use your membership in the Websites for any type of recruitment to any causes whatsoever. You will not Post, use the chat feature, use videos, or use the private message system to disseminate advertisements, chain letters, petitions, pyramid schemes, or any kind of solicitation for political action, social action, letter campaigns, or related online and/or offline coordinated actions of any kind.

They even explain why to a degree:

22b) Editorial Neutrality: TAN provides a forum for the open discussion of a wide variety of subjects, but does not influence editorial control over any particular theory, opinion, ideology, political doctrine, viewpoint or position on any topic in so far as those topics adhere to the rules set forth in these Terms and Conditions of Use and the Terms and Conditions of Membership. Furthermore, though operating costs are supported by advertising and promotional revenue, TAN do not officially endorse or promote any commercial product or service.

But allow me to put it into better context. We all have opinions on things, I personally will not publicly speak on a variety of topics so there is zero chance of confusion as to what is my opinion and what is the opinion of ATS and TAN. Do I foresee a time of violence that the OP calls for? You bet your sweet bippy. Does all of the Staff? Nope, not at all. But we, the staff, all agree that ATS is not the place to plan one. Will it be reported in a multitude of threads should it come to pass? Count on it. It would be an unavoidable discussion. Would it merit its own forum? Probably seeing how the Deepwater Disaster and Japan Quake earned their own forum. But then again there is no forum for OWS nor the TEA Party, mostly due to activist reasons.

Can you discuss the overthrow of the government with plans grand and small? By all means. Can you discuss on ATS? No.

Tread Closed.