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posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 03:34 PM
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reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 


I respect your insight. I am always happy to read your post. I am young so I have a lot to learn and it seems you have a lot to teach. However, I do not see a way to disobey without breaking laws. I do not have money to fight the courts. I want a way to get my freedom back. Most of my friends are sick of paying 000 digits to have a legal vehicle ect. How do we do it? How would we be exempt from those laws? For a start.




posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 03:36 PM
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Originally posted by benrl
Right because of all the voting fraud that takes place when such a small percentile of eligible voters vote...

Doesn’t matter is 100% of us vote, we have an electoral college that does the real voting anyway.
Your buddies from the Revolution never set this up as a Democracy, they set it up as an Oligarchy.


Originally posted by benrl
But again your right, we absolutely need a ONE world government capable of replacing our leaders at the drop of a hat...

Please show me where I said this at?
If I didn't say it, then please stop putting words in my mouth that never came from it.
edit on 7/2/2012 by defcon5 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 03:45 PM
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reply to post by defcon5
 





. The exception to that is if there is outside source, such as the UN, that keeps this from occurring.


Fine implied it than,

You: such as the UN, that keeps this from occurring.


Me: America Did.

You: That was sort of a rare case.

Me: Its the only american example.

You: To many different people for it to work.

Me:THe voting is not representative of the people because no one votes, (certainly not even enough to sway the electoral.)

You: Voting is fraud

Me: If enough voted the fraud would have to be HUGE to work (and therefore make it apperent)

You
oesn’t matter is 100% of us vote, we have an electoral college that does the real voting anyway.

-------------------

That about sum it up so far?

Because to me it looks like you have a solution, and it appears to lie IN NOT THE LAWFUL Following of US Constitutional GOV...

Mine is to follow what is there, and we can make it work.

But again, this is ATS, so of course the reasoned law following response is just absurd isn't it?



posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 03:46 PM
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reply to post by slapmyface
 





However, I do not see a way to disobey without breaking laws.


I am not advocating that anyone, anywhere disobey laws. Indeed, I am advocating the exact opposite. It is extremely important to understand that legislation is not law. At best it is merely evidence of law, at worst it is flat out unlawful. This is why we have a judicial system with judicial review. If legislation were law, judges couldn't strike that legislation down as unlawful.

I understand that the priest class lawyer sect have so infiltrated government and uttered their mystical incantations (legalese) for so long that the average person has come to believe they don't understand the law and that it takes a lawyer to explain it to them, but a common and often held principle of law in this nation is that ignorance of the law is no excuse. You cannot use ignorance of law as a lawful defense. You are presumed to know the law.

Fear not, my friend, all law is simple, true, universal, and absolute, and when it comes to the law of governance, in terms of the law, governments are established to further the aims of individual protection of rights.

What is a right? Outside of defense, what ever you do that causes no harm you do by right. You have the right to life, so it follows that you have the right to defend that life, and in this regard, you have the right to harm those who would attempt to extinguish your right to life. You also have the right to defend other peoples lives. You have the right to property, and it follows that you have the right to defend your property. In this very narrow scope, you have the right to use force and harm if necessary. Outside of that scope, you do not have the right to harm others. If it causes no harm it is done by right. This is law.



posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 03:51 PM
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reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 





I am not advocating that anyone, anywhere disobey laws. Indeed, I am advocating the exact opposite. It is extremely important to understand that legislation is not law. At best it is merely evidence of law, at worst it is flat out unlawful. This is why we have a judicial system with judicial review. If legislation were law, judges couldn't strike that legislation down as unlawful.


Its a down hill battle, I agree with your points.

Most of your post are eloquent and well reasoned.

Its always seemed to me, that either through ad traffic reasons, or simple human nature, that ATS has an inherit bias towards well reasoned intellectual responses.

The post advocating real, tangible law abiding ways of helping the current state of the Gov are always shot down or ignored here.

The agenda again seems to be division.

And you my friend are talking uniting in peace.



posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 03:56 PM
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reply to post by benrl
 





The agenda again seems to be division.

And you my friend are talking uniting in peace.


The only practical reason to unite is in peace. There is indeed an agenda of division, but reason and patience always win out. I annoy the crap out of many in this site, but in spite of that, many who I've often annoyed, at some point come to understand what I am advocating, and while we may continue to have policy disagreements, they come to understand we are united in peace.

Keep fighting the good fight, my friend.



posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 03:56 PM
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reply to post by benrl
 

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


No, my point is that revolution would never work in today's world without falling into utter chaos, and leading us into a worse system then we already have. Historically, its USUALLY lead into fascist dictatorships, and police states. The only reason why some have succeeded in modern times is because outside countries have policed the process (like the UN, the UK, and the US), to keep that from happening.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 04:00 PM
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reply to post by defcon5
 





No, my point is that revolution would never work in today's world without falling into utter chaos, and leading us into a worse system then we already have.


Peaceful revolutions can and do work. Attempting to go toe to toe with the most powerful military in the history of civilization would be profoundly stupid. Such a revolution would be easily quelled, but quelling non-acquiescence is a far trickier proposition and the Klingons, and Romulons combined with the U.S. military could not defeat non-acquiescence.



posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 04:01 PM
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reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 


Well, most "laws" are unconstitutional or are so as I see it. I would like to grow pot in my backyard to make a living. I would be imprisoned "this is just an example, I do not evolve my views on one subject alone". I would be thrown in jail, I could try and walk the thin line with government approval. That would require moving states ect. I dont see it as hurting others or myself. I doubt it could harm anyone unless used as a tool to controll and dictate peoples civil rights ect, and the federal government is doing a good job of that. I would like to do things like this, but the nazi's will get me. I have to say that these kind of "laws" are going to be the death of me, or my stable mind. I am sorry if I am unclear, I just dont know how to get this out into words...yet.



posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 04:02 PM
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reply to post by defcon5
 





, my point is that revolution would never work in today's world


Damn, someone go dig up mahatma gandhi and tell him hes a failure.



posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 04:06 PM
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reply to post by defcon5
 

There has never been a populace as capably armed in world history either.That will play a part if ANYONE from the UN arrives.It also is factored into Fed policies because it is a telling truth.But they shoot first.Nothing can happen all at once.Let's have a look at the east coast without power.What do you suppose people would do if a major engagement were to occur?
And someone was shooting at civilians and lots were dying?
At least a few hundred thousand people just mobilized who don't work for NATO or the UN.



posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 04:20 PM
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Originally posted by cavtrooper7
reply to post by defcon5
 

There has never been a populace as capably armed in world history either.That will play a part if ANYONE from the UN arrives.It also is factored into Fed policies because it is a telling truth.But they shoot first.Nothing can happen all at once.Let's have a look at the east coast without power.What do you suppose people would do if a major engagement were to occur?
And someone was shooting at civilians and lots were dying?
At least a few hundred thousand people just mobilized who don't work for NATO or the UN.


The biggest problem is...drumroll please... Who would be shooting who and why would they do it? Who is the Armed American Public going to fight? The problem is with all these guns I have is... Who do I point them at? What good would it do?



posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 04:26 PM
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reply to post by slapmyface
 





Who do I point them at? What good would it do?


The time you need your right to a gun, is when they are trying to take that right from you, and than, you point it the ones doing the taking.

What good does that do? IT Gives them pause from even trying to take it in the first place, its a deterrent, it ensures peace.

Its better to prevent in the first place, than to fight for it after.



posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 04:41 PM
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reply to post by benrl
 


I agree. I am pro gun, and I own a few myself. Just dont see us ever getting into an armed conflict here in the us, not from our government.



posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 04:46 PM
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reply to post by slapmyface
 


Of course, we are in a privately owned web site, in their kitchen, and the owners of this kitchen and web site have made it expressly clear they do not want discussions of the nature you have brought up, so out of respect to that I will decline to discuss your specific ambitions and rely upon hypothetical ambitions.

Let us, for the sake of argument, imagine that the federal government has prohibited the growing of and distribution of fennel. This would be unconstitutional and unlawful, but let us imagine that even so, the Supreme Court has upheld the prohibition. What to do?

There is precedent for this. The 18th Amendment prohibited the distillation and distribution of alcohol, the Supreme Court upheld the prohibition as Constitutional, but less than 14 years later Congress repealed the 18th Amendment. Why? Largely because juries refused to convict their suppliers, that's why.

Let's now imagine that fennel is on the same par as the product you have ambitions to grow in your own back yard. The biggest problem with the continued prohibition of this fennel has been that juries are all to willing to convict fennel growers and distributors...but that is changing, and juries are growing quite weary of the federal governments oppression on this plant. It is only a matter of time before Congress repeals the laws prohibiting it, and when they finally do, I assure it will be due to non-acquiescence.



posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 04:49 PM
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reply to post by slapmyface
 



I agree, I view all of the current Policy of our Gov as troubling , yet I can't see them as being the "enemy" ever, atleast not the true one, somewhere I have to think they are justified in their .. There is a reason, weather its justified or not is yet to be seen,.

The scenario I worry about is the crash of the dollar, that combined with the Prison pop in the us is my view the reason we hear all this Marshall law and fema camp stuff.

In the event of an US economy collapse, we are already laying off police in places that need it, at some point we wont be able to afford to keep all the prisoners in the current prison system.

It needs to be centralized and controlled if a collapse happens.

and even than I would think for the most part, that Americans can put aside their differences and work together peacefully to in act change.



posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 05:07 PM
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"Problems cannot be solved at the same level of awareness that created them." -Albert Einstein

The level of awareness that so-called political "thinkers" operate from is pathetic. The tiny little boxes you think in will destroy you.



posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 05:11 PM
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Originally posted by BlueMule
"Problems cannot be solved at the same level of awareness that created them." -Albert Einstein

The level of awareness that so-called political "thinkers" operate from is pathetic. The tiny little boxes you think in will destroy you.


Sure, there's an example of divorcing oneself from "ego-self". Who is this speaking? "We"? Right. Looks like the id got hurt feelings and commanded the "ego-self" to make another post.



posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 05:14 PM
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I have come to many walls on my quest. The largest wall is the fact that I can not truly trust my government. I feel as if my "freedoms" will remain for years, however my children my suffer. I have no doubt that the Federal reserve note will fail and I hope Americans stay calm and work with each other to get threw it. I feel that I will not get the opportunity to own land. This is depressing.



posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 05:25 PM
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I say why bother with a reset button at all?

It'll just be the same thing the second time around, unless we take step to prevent corruption and the influence of big money.

Control freaks are good at finding ways of manipulating governments, especially when they gobs and gobs of money to spend on hiring lawyers who only care about looting the country they're in.



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