MAFFS C-130H down in South Dakota

reply to post by Zaphod58


two crew members survived the crash.,thank god,,
sorry for the loss of the third,,
He died in Service too His Country,,and should be EXPECTED every right.privilage, and Honor, with All Due Diligence.
Amen.

reply to post by BobAthome


There were four fatalities. Three were lifted out immediately after the crash, but apparently one died either enroute, or was already dead. The other three were probably either not found right away, or were confirmed dead on scene.

reply to post by Zaphod58


apparently one died either enroute.
enroute,sorry that was last i had heard.
hope they will be looked after.
and their families.

reply to post by getreadyalready


I think what is happening is metal fatigue due to the changing stress of first being weighted down then rapidly losing a major down force of that weight. Over time stress cracks that would ordinarily be gradual are sudden and unnoticed until the disaster.

I hadn't read through the thread but hope the pilots are ok even though I was a firefighter and was close enough beneath a retardant drop to almost be touched by spray. I do know how low they approach especially for a pinpoint drop.

reply to post by Zaphod58


thnks .
sad day.

reply to post by anoncoholic


The irony is that a few days ago, Col Mikeal gave an interview where he talked about how hard it was to see from the smoke, and how difficult it was to drop in the mountains around there, because of the valleys, and the winds, combined with low visibility from the fire. I suspect that they're going to find that they couldn't see the terrain around them, and they flew down into a valley and couldn't get out. The area they impacted is said to be sheer cliffs and steep hills all around.

The C-130H has an altitude issue when they're flying out of mountain areas. They really have to drop the max take-off weight because of altitude. It doesn't have the power that it needs to really fly well in the mountains.

Along with Col Mikeal, the wife of Master Sergeant Robert Cannon confirmed that he was killed in the crash. The family of a 28 year old crew member, whose name was being withheld pending confirmation, has said that they were informed that he was upgraded from critical condition. They went on to say that he had been informed Friday to prepare for the mission, and was excited. He had trained for firefighting duty in Afghanistan, but this was his first mission in the US.

Col Mikeal and his wife were preparing to celebrate their 20th wedding anniversary.

The 28 year old crew member was identified as Josh Marlowe. He's said to be improving, and is now breathing on his own.

A rancher that lives two miles from the crash site said that he and his wife heard the crash when it occurred, but were unaware of what it was at first. He said when rescue crews showed up at his ranch they found out about the crash. He said that the aircraft appeared to hit straight in, and didn't skid.

A news source in North Carolina said that they may release the rest of the crew names today. I will update when more information comes available.

Five of the remaining seven MAFFS equipped C-130s are to resume firefighting duties today. Either a pathfinder, or another tanker aircraft ahead of the C-130 that crashed experienced a severe downdraft just before the C-130 crashed.

A witness said he watched them fly into a valley, and about the time they should have shown up again, climbing out, the smoke intensified, and they never reappeared.

Five of the six crew have been identified, including one injured crew member identified in an earlier post. The crew members killed in the crash are:

Lt. Col. Paul Mikeal, pilot.
Maj. Joseph McCormack, Instructor pilot.
Maj. Ryan David, navigator.
Smsgt. Robert Cannon, flight engineer.

The remaining injured crew member has not been identified, and no word on his condition has been released.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by mkgandhas

 

Really? You REALLY felt it necessary to post that in this thread? You have GOT to be kidding me.

If you look at his post history its full of bile and anti-west hatred. He loves when Americans die. Very sickening, especially when you consider these men and women are heroes.

Per the Air Force, it was a combination of things, but the primary cause of the crash was the pilots failure to call off the second drop, combined with a microburst that the crew flew into that was unrecoverable. The crew did everything they could, including dumping the retardant, but the best they could do was to position the plane in such a manner that the two crew in back survived.

“If you add all of the pieces up, it was very clear that they shouldn’t have attempted the second drop, that with all of the different meteorological conditions, all of the different operational conditions that were going on there, they should not have gone ahead with that second drop,” Guthrie told reporters during a conference call on Wednesday.

On its previous run, the plane was forced to push its engines to maximum power, yet the plane was unable accelerate, Guthrie said.

“Then, after that, as they came around for the second drop, they noticed multiple different indicators of what was going on weather-wise, all of which have an impact on the capability of what the aircraft can do,” he said.

The plane leading the C-130 into the second run ran into the same microburst and came within 10 feet of the ground, but it and another aircraft involved did not effectively communicate to the C-130 crew how severe the turbulence was, Guthrie said.

“As to why both of them didn’t show a greater sense of urgency and be clearer, they also commented that they didn’t really add all of the pieces up themselves,” he said.

Another contributing factor was the crew had conflicting guidance on how close they could get to thunderstorms, he said. Air Mobility Command said they could get up to 5 nautical miles to storms, but the National Guard Bureau told them that they needed to stay 25 nautical miles from thunderstorms.

“Our analysis was that there was more indications than just the weather that they had that indicated what was going on,” Guthrie said. “They were not ordered to do it. Anybody could have said, ‘No, we’re not going to do it,’ and they wouldn’t have done it. They always have that.”

Before the crash, a pilot with the Wyoming National Guard’s 187th Airlift Squadron told Air Force Times that high winds, thick smoke and mountainous terrain were making firefighting efforts difficult

The high winds, thick smoke and mountainous terrain makes firefighting efforts even more challenging, said Maj. Neil Harlow, a pilot with the Wyoming National Guard’s 187th Airlift Squadron.

Crews had been forced to drop fire retardant at 10,000 feet, much higher than the normal drops, which are usually made at 8,000 feet, said Maj. Neil Harlow.

“The conditions couldn’t be worse for aircraft,” Harlow said. “We have high-pressure altitudes in excess of 10,000 feet just for takeoffs. We’re fully loaded with slurry and fuel. It makes it extremely difficult to get the plane to perform for you.”

www.airforcetimes.com...