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Jews Overwhelmingly Believed Israel Shouldn't Exist And Thoughts About The Holocaust

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posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 10:44 AM
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Hopefully nobody takes offense to this thread, i'm just reading texts and quotes from jewish people themselves and wanted to discuss about it.

Firstly as you may know a Holocaust Memorial was vandalized and it seems it was jewish people who vandalized it.
But some even more interesting points is brought up in the article:
Why was it jewish people who vandalized it and how come many jewish people were NOT surprised it was jews?


Jews know that a number of ultra-Orthodox Jews, for religious reasons, believe the State of Israel should not yet exist.

Among ultra-Orthodox Jews, this view is not uncommon. Many interpret passages in religious texts to mean that the messiah must arrive before the State of Israel is reconstituted.

He pointed to a portion of the Talmud -- ancient rabbinic commentaries on Jewish law -- that states that before the messiah's arrival, Jews must live in exile and should not use "human force" to establish their own nation.

www.huffingtonpost.com...

This is something that i've heard about before but I thought it was mainly some christians who believed this
But it seems there are many jewish people who also believe that Israel should not exist

What are your thoughts on this?
I would like people of jewish faith to also chime in and give their two cents on this topic as well

And regarding the holocaust:

Among the statements the jewish vandalists painted in Hebrew at the memorial: "If Hitler had not existed, the Zionists would have invented him" and "Jews wake up -- the Zionist regime is dangerous."

But Cohen also expressed an understanding of the sentiments expressed in their graffiti. "There were Zionists who were complicit in the Holocaust, because they stood by and refused to save Jews, knowing that the destruction of European Jewry would create a political climate conducive to the founding of a Jewish state," he said.

What are your opinions on this?
Hitler, of jewish and african descent, was he the main vehicle behind the holocaust?

Thomas Watson, the founder/owner of IBM, an active member of the Masonic lodge also helped support the holocaust.

So basically my question is for the people of jewish faith here is the below true:

"Jews overwhelmingly believed until not so long ago that the establishment of the Jewish people to their homeland could only take place when the messiah comes," Cohen said.


So most jews once did not believe in the state of israel and that it shouldn't exist
It seems it's just politics now that they think it should

What are your thoughts on this and the holocaust?
edit on 2-7-2012 by ModernAcademia because: (no reason given)




posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 10:59 AM
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Prior to WW2 Zionism was very unpopular in the Jewish community.

The NAZIs and the Zionists became very cozy.

I could only find one single Rothschild that died in the war. Yet, the German Naval Command HQ was located at the Rothschild Estate in France. Hmmm.

Who planned, funded and established the Modern state of Israel? The Rothschilds. How many of them reside there? Another hmmmm.

Many Jews know there God. And he is not any damned Rothschild. God save the Torah Jews!



posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 09:41 PM
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reply to post by ModernAcademia
 


You should seriously think about working for PressTV. No where in the article does it state what you put in the title. Secondly the title you gave is not the title of the article.

You should think about reading the article in its entirety before making claims that are not true.

It actually states -

The religious identities of the culprits -- however surprising to many who read of their arrests last Tuesday (June 26) -- did not surprise many Israelis, however. They know that a number of ultra-Orthodox Jews, for religious reasons, believe the State of Israel should not yet exist.

Among ultra-Orthodox Jews, this view is not uncommon. Many interpret passages in religious texts to mean that the messiah must arrive before the State of Israel is reconstituted.


To answer your last question the Holocaust was real and was planned and implemented by the Nazi regime led by Adolph Hitler.
edit on 2-7-2012 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 10:22 PM
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reply to post by ModernAcademia
 


Jews overwhemingly believe Israel should'nt exist?

There are approx 15 million Jews worldwide; I'm of the assumption you allege a majority of Jews believe Israel should'nt exist...........so where are your stats to back up your thread?

A majority equates to more than 50% of the world Jewish population!



posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 10:29 PM
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I have to agree with Xcathdra about the title. OP, you are making your own blanketed statement of "Jews," being cited in general as if all Jews feel the same way as the fanatics that vandalized the memorial. You are taking a large stretch with your wording. The overall essence of the article is about a portion of the Ultra-Orthodox community being at odds over the State of Israel.

Perhaps, you should have titled your thread as "Some Jews Overwhelmingly Believed Israel . . . .?" I added emphasis to the word "some." Lets not make blanketed statements about anyone or anything. It is deceptive and misleading. We can all agree that there are fanatics in all circles of life from religious institutions to politics. There are fanatics in the Judaism and the Zionist movement. I think everyone is aware of that around here?

As for the conspiracies surrounding the causes of World War II, the annihilation of European Jewry, or the subsequent creation of the State of Israel? I am of the conclusion that it did happen. Families, culture, and history was destroyed by a madman. Was he put in power by international bankers, Zionists, or Satan himself? Who cares, because he took the reigns of the German government and plunged Europe into an abyss of epic proportions. That is the crux of the matter, and not the semantics of why and how it happened. It happened!

Human beings were killed with the precision of an assembly line, and not only Jews; but Eastern Europeans, Russians, Trade Unionists, Gypsies, and essentially the whole strata of society that was not inline with the National Socialist Party. That is what it boils down too. As for the State Of Israel? It is what it is. It is not going anywhere as far as I can see, and it is time for those whom are opposed to realize that. Let bygones be bygones, and lets work for mutual peace and respect. That is all I am saying. Of course the fringe and the fanatics will always resist kicking and screaming for whatever reason. Can't lead a horse to water and make them drink.
edit on 2-7-2012 by Jakes51 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 10:38 PM
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reply to post by Jakes51
 


Amen to that Jake!



posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 11:41 PM
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I'm not a Jew but I do know the reason why Israel shouldn't exist. So I'll tell it to you here. And the reason is this.

Malachi 4.
5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

And what I think happened is that those ancient rabbis figured it out. That Elijah the prophet came and was prevented from doing the job outlined in Malachi that he was supposed to do.

Jesus Christ in Matthew 17 tells us this.
10 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?
11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

Simply put the Jews of the first century AD triggered the curse of Malachi.

So after doing all the work here is the details of the curse. It's a top level Leviticus 26 curse. Where the nation is destroyed and the people are killed or taken away as slaves.

See the chapter here. Leviticus 26

And I found a prophecy of the curse here. Hosea

But here's the short version that gets to the point.

Hosea 6
1 Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up.
2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

Which makes no sense until you look at it while referencing Psalms 90 or 2nd Peter 3-8.

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Those days are thousand year periods of time. And that is the reason why they shouldn't be in Israel yet. They were banished for 2000 years. They recreated the nation of Israel approximately 70 to 100 years too early.



posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 11:58 PM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 


LEO,he's a thinker not a drone. I suggest you stop the insults.



posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 11:59 PM
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reply to post by Numbers33four
 




Excellent post!!!



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 03:48 AM
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Originally posted by ludwigvonmises003
reply to post by Xcathdra
 


LEO,he's a thinker not a drone. I suggest you stop the insults.

I did not insult anyone...

I did point out how he took the article, created a misleading title that is not supported by the info in the article, and then "quoted" part of the article that is not even in the article.

Calling me a LEO is not an insult so im not sure why you needed to use it, especially since when you reply / quote my info it places my name there anyways. A for effort though....

As for the thinker and not a drone lololol..... riiight..
He didnt think about what the article stated... Instead he made up the info in an attempt to make it anti jewish, which is what a lot of ignorant people do when they refuse to research and just repeat what the other mindless drones keep repeating. You didnt bother reading the article otherwise you would have known my post was and still is accurate.

So while I find your disdain hillarious and not even remotely accurate maybe you should spend more time with your compadre and get your talking points on the same page while trying to figure out how to prevent people from reading an article that doesnt support the OP's post or quotes.

Amazing that you ignored the valid points I and a few others have made while at the saem time attacking me. That would be another tactic of those who cant refure the facts so they attack the poster.

Now, do you have anything on topic? If so please let me know so we can discuss / debate the topic / issue and maybe salvage this thread instead of derailing it as you have done.

Please show me where my post to the OP is incorrect.
edit on 3-7-2012 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 05:48 AM
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Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by ModernAcademia
 


You should seriously think about working for PressTV. No where in the article does it state what you put in the title. Secondly the title you gave is not the title of the article.

snip


Everything ModernAcademia quoted is in the news article. I don't see your point.

What he put as the title is there, read the last paragraphs.

And he put in a forum not bound by same headline rule of Breaking Alternative News.
edit on 3-7-2012 by bpcojuv because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 02:35 PM
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Originally posted by Xcathdra
You should seriously think about working for PressTV. No where in the article does it state what you put in the title.

if you didn't find the info in the article try reading the article again



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 10:42 PM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Originally posted by Xcathdra
You should seriously think about working for PressTV. No where in the article does it state what you put in the title.

if you didn't find the info in the article try reading the article again


I read the article... I reread the article.. I made my initial post..

I stand by that post.



posted on Jul, 4 2012 @ 09:03 AM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 


You haven't read it then, or you'd have found the quote title is derived from : 3rd paragraph reading from end(antepenultimate)



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