Con Ed Curtails Services After Talks Break Down, page 3

posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 01:38 PM

link

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by defcon5

Chances are that they are overpaid compared to other industries, with higher skill demands, in “Right to Work” states such as Florida.

The problem is they are probably higher paid, but they probably have less bring-home pay. The Union takes their enormous cut, and the union chooses the pension managers, and the union chooses the healthcare plan, and someone is getting a piece of all that. The union plays both sides, and only the union benefits. in the long run the company pays more and the employees get less.

One tiny thing you forgot...your Union also decides who to give your money to in political elections. Doesn't matter if you like them, or would vote for them either....the Union decides.

Des

edit on 2-7-2012 by Destinyone because: (no reason given)

defcon5

posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 01:58 PM

link

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
The companies you mentioned did not fail exclusively from high wages, the cut throat competition killed them because some one always undercuts you in price and service.

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

Actually I was there when Eastern went bankrupt, I Met Lorenzo when he came into our station, and I know for a fact that it was bankrupt because of unreasonable Union demands. Lorenzo also owned Continental, and Texas air at the time, and he was fed up with the Union at Eastern making huge demands that were bankrupting the company.

At Eastern he used to have to pay 1 ramp manager, 1 ramp supervisor, 2 lead agents, 8 ramp agents, 5 baggage tuggers, 1 freight tugger, 1 mail runner, and 4 bagwell personnel per narrowbody flight. These guys were making anywhere from $60 - $120K per year, plus full medical, dental, pension, and flight benefits. Most worked maybe 4 flights a day.

The same narrowbody flights over at Continental, used to be run with one supervisor for the whole ramp, 1 lead agent per flight, 4 ramp agents per flight, one freight tugger for the whole airline, one mail runner for the whole airline (more at Christmas), and 2 bagwell guys for the whole airline. Average salary out there was between $24-$50K, medical and dental, no pension, and no flight benefits. Average was 8 flights/crew/day.

Now does some guy, who spends 90% of the day watching TV and playing cards in the break room really deserve $60-$120K for life with a pension? Don't you think that adds up over time and makes the overhead for the airline untenable?

We used to laugh at the Pan Am guys who shared our building. They used to be too lazy to walk the 50 feet to the gate, and had to have golf carts to lug their king sized tails out there. The rest of the day they took up the whole break room playing cards and watching TV. If a plane came in 30 minutes early, they would just sit on their gulf carts and look at , because under their “contract” they were not required to do any work outside of when the flights official “on the ground” time was scheduled. Remember that the next time you have to sit on your plane for half an hour waiting to pull into the gate that’s 20 feet away, that there are union guys sitting there watching you and refusing to do any work because they “don't have to yet according to their union contract...”

Funny thing is, I've even seen worse stuff then this at the Auto Manufacturer I worked for.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

defcon5

posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 02:01 PM

link

Originally posted by Destinyone

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by defcon5

Chances are that they are overpaid compared to other industries, with higher skill demands, in “Right to Work” states such as Florida.

The problem is they are probably higher paid, but they probably have less bring-home pay. The Union takes their enormous cut, and the union chooses the pension managers, and the union chooses the healthcare plan, and someone is getting a piece of all that. The union plays both sides, and only the union benefits. in the long run the company pays more and the employees get less.

One tiny thing you forgot...your Union also decides who to give your money to in political elections. Doesn't matter if you like them, or would vote for them either....the Union decides.

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

Most unions are, and always have been part of organized crime, and there is really nothing more to them then that. They want more money for their members, because they get a bigger cut each year for themselves. You bet the employees themselves also get a cut of that as well. But lets not forget that Money is not the only benefits that the employees get. They get LOTS of other incentives, most of which are geared at the fact that they don't really have to preform at any expected level to maintain their jobs.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

camaro68ss

posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 02:56 PM

link

reply to post by EarthCitizen07

Im sorry but i think the union is getting greed on this one. The majority of americans have to tighten there belts and take pay cuts to keep there jobs. But the unions step in once there contracts are up, stop work and services because there greedy and want more money in a global depression.

Really? come on, have you ever seen a starving union worker..... no, they get paid enough.

FreeFromTheHerd

posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 03:00 PM

link

Originally posted by TrueBrit

Honestly, the fact is that unless each man is asking for an executive level payout per year, hes probably worth every cent the company can spend on him, especially if that includes a decent pension, which any responsible person ought to want to secure for themselves in the very speediest and comprehensive manner.

Actually any responsible person would invest their own money and plan for their own retirement instead of relying on their employer to do so.

Work for someone for 20 years? Cool, you got a paycheck for that 20 years of employment. Now you want that company to continue paying you a portion of your salary long after you stopped providing a service for them?

lol lol lol simply laughable.

Very typical of the mindset of your average barely literate union degenerate.

edit on 2-7-2012 by FreeFromTheHerd because: (no reason given)

stirling

posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 03:44 PM

link

MY pappy would kick your lily white ass for such a comment.
he was working in the coal mines of Alberta from the age of nine, he drove the ponies that pulled the coal cars....
His life was not easy, and he was amongwst the ones who tried to go to Ottawa during the 30s to protest the goverment handling of the depression.....they made ot to Winnipeg where the police rioted and shot and ran down men with their horses....as they tried to stop them from reading the riot act which would have allowed them to bring out the machine guns and use them....
The truth is the unions are the one and only thing that SAVED the working ,man....
They may have been subverted by organised crime,or just plain greedy psychpathic personalities which have taken power every other organisation we construct to protect us from abuse....
I blame the insanity which we foster amoung ourselves called good buiness sense which is merely greed interlligently used to leverage your fortune...
The WHOLE effing thing is currupt because mankiind is largely CORRUPTABLE>>>>>go figure......

defcon5

posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 03:50 PM

link

Originally posted by stirling
he was working in the coal mines of Alberta from the age of nine, he drove the ponies that pulled the coal cars....
His life was not easy, and he was amongwst the ones who tried to go to Ottawa during the 30s to protest the goverment handling of the depression.....

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

The days of the old coal mines and steel mills, company police, and the company store are long since over and illegal. Unions are, in most cases, nothing more then a hive for the mob to make money while legally taking protection/extortion money from big companies and our government workers that provide necessary services. Companies that are not in necessary services for an area, simply move jobs overseas, or to “right to work” states, to avoid union entanglements. With that in mind, what good do unions do in today’s world?

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

camaro68ss

posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 04:31 PM

link

Originally posted by stirling
MY pappy would kick your lily white ass for such a comment.
he was working in the coal mines of Alberta from the age of nine, he drove the ponies that pulled the coal cars....
His life was not easy, and he was amongwst the ones who tried to go to Ottawa during the 30s to protest the goverment handling of the depression.....they made ot to Winnipeg where the police rioted and shot and ran down men with their horses....as they tried to stop them from reading the riot act which would have allowed them to bring out the machine guns and use them....
The truth is the unions are the one and only thing that SAVED the working ,man....
They may have been subverted by organised crime,or just plain greedy psychpathic personalities which have taken power every other organisation we construct to protect us from abuse....
I blame the insanity which we foster amoung ourselves called good buiness sense which is merely greed interlligently used to leverage your fortune...
The WHOLE effing thing is currupt because mankiind is largely CORRUPTABLE>>>>>go figure......

this isnt the 1920's and 30's anymore. your pappy was not forced to work in a coal mine. He was offered a wage for his time and took it.

Unions now a days want more and more money for less and less work. if they dont get what they want, they shut the system down and make the people suffer. There a blood sucking parasite that needs to go.

jibeho

posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 04:35 PM

link

reply to post by defcon5

I'm sure you'll get a good kick out of this

In my neck of the woods it was all about Jim Trafficant, the mafia and the criminal union bosses.

In 1980 James Traficant, who had enjoyed popularity as the quarterback of the University of Pittsburgh football team, announced his candidacy for Sheriff of Youngstown. Both the Pittsburgh Mafia Family and the rival Cleveland Mafia Family recognized that the next Sheriff had to be ‘bought’ by them to protect their gambling interests, so the Pittsburgh Mafia Family forwarded a $65,000 bribe to Traficant through their Associates Charles O’Nesti and Lenny Strollo. The Cleveland Mafia Family contributed more to Traficant, $98,000, forwarded to the former athlete through Charlie "The Crab."

Great Story here that includes accounts of Danny Greene of "Kill the Irishman" fame

ust weeks before his third Federal trial began, Congressman James Traficant was hit with additional charges filed in the Cleveland Court of Judge Lesley Brooks Wells. The filings concerned Traficant’s interactions with Henry Nemenz, a wealthy grocery store owner in the Youngstown, Ohio area which Traficant represents in Congress. According to the Feds, in 1994 Nemenz turned to Traficant for help when Local 880 of the United Food and Commercial Workers Union was picketing Nemenz’s grocery stores. Congressman Traficant agreed to help Nemenz, appearing on a radio talk show during which Traficant urged his constituents to cross the UFCW picket lines. The Feds charged that Nemenz later offered Traficant free gifts and services worth over $100,000 in exchange for Traficant’s help in squashing the efforts by the UFCW.

www.americanmafia.com...

It was a miracle to see Traficant actually do jail time only to run for office once again....

edit on 2-7-2012 by jibeho because: error

edit on 2-7-2012 by jibeho because: (no reason given)

grey580

posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 05:50 PM

link

reply to post by defcon5

I live in Miami.
I remember when Eastern went under.
And even then I said to myself.
These idiots are killing the company.

smurfy

posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 07:32 PM

link

Just a POI, did I get it wrong, or did the company tell union workers not to come to work?

defcon5

posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 08:07 PM

link

reply to post by smurfy

Yes, its called a lock-out.

The Old American

posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 09:02 PM

link

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by jibeho

How does that exonerate management? The FACT is that millions of people are counting on Con Ed to keep services running. Putting innocent, uninvolved lives in danger during an emergency situation is BEYOND wrong. It is criminal. Can't the stupid negotiations wait until a "strike" or a "lock-out" would not endanger people?

Then the workers should've chosen a less dangerous time to strike. Management didn't tell them to strike during a heat wave, but since it's already started, might as well play through. The workers knew exactly what they were doing, and they're just as greedy or they wouldn't have picked now to do it.

/TOA

wildtimes

posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 09:12 PM

link

reply to post by The Old American

Then the workers should've chosen a less dangerous time to strike. Management didn't tell them to strike during a heat wave, but since it's already started, might as well play through.

Like I said.....they're equally to blame.

"Might as well play through?" Really?
What if your grandmother was in an apartment that has its a/c cut off due to this?

getreadyalready

posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 09:21 PM

link

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by The Old American

Then the workers should've chosen a less dangerous time to strike. Management didn't tell them to strike during a heat wave, but since it's already started, might as well play through.

Like I said.....they're equally to blame.

"Might as well play through?" Really?
What if your grandmother was in an apartment that has its a/c cut off due to this?

I'd never let my grandmother live in a crowded wretched place like that, and if my grandmother lived in a regular place, I'd just get her a generator, or bring her to my house for awhile.

Not that I'm agreeing with the strike, I think they should all be fired and replaced immediately by unemployed workers that would be thrilled at $20+ per hour, but I don't see the sardines in NYC as victims here. If you choose to live like roaches in a wall, then there are going to be some hard times.

wildtimes

posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 06:44 AM

link

reply to post by getreadyalready

Gotta say I totally agree with you on the above counts, all the way around!!

I've never been to NYC, but 8 million people in one place is TOOOOoo many.

FreeFromTheHerd

posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 11:38 AM

link

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
Once AGAIN the unions are being BULLIED by big business and their cohorts in government. NYC is republican so no suprise there.

The company would rather people die of heat stroke than give employees livable wages and respectable pensions. Makes me mad as hell!

Reaganomics 101

Are you serious with this crap?

The union would rather people die than work an extra 10 minutes a day or skip a break once in a while.

Union monkeys are very overpaid for the services provided.

The Old American

posted on Jul, 4 2012 @ 06:39 PM

link

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by The Old American

Then the workers should've chosen a less dangerous time to strike. Management didn't tell them to strike during a heat wave, but since it's already started, might as well play through.

Like I said.....they're equally to blame.

"Might as well play through?" Really?
What if your grandmother was in an apartment that has its a/c cut off due to this?

My grandmother's dead. But what getreadyalready said pretty much sums it up. They know the score, and they made a personal choice to live there.

/TOA

EarthCitizen07

posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 02:29 PM

link

Originally posted by jimmyx
doesn't it bother anyone that the actual reasons (detailed reasons) WHY the members want to go on strike are never mentioned in any news articles?. it's always the unions that are portrayed as the bad guys, and the companies are just trying to take care of their customers.
unions make up ONLY 7% of the nations workforce, but they are the ones portrayed as being "job destroyers", "lazy", "corrupt"....i thought here on ATS, we are the ones that have critical-thinking skills, and are suspicious of corporate propaganda....apparently not.

I am not really suprised that most people are pro-business and anti-labor. It is the american way after all aka capitalism. Socialism has been a dirty word since senator mcarthy and his witch hunt of socialists. Many people have died fighting against both socialism and communism, and now surreptitiously they are trying to destroy liberalism as well via the conservative think tanks and other contracted posters.

They put all the blame for outsourcing on unions and tough enviromental laws, INSTEAD of putting blame on lack of tarrifs. Tariffs have become a dirty word as big business with its 24/7 propaganda encourages global capitalism, more specifically 'free trade'.

Many posters then have the gal to complain about a detoriating america and cannot or will never admit it was american corporate greed that did them in and the rest of the world. 'Right to work' means get any pay, shut the hell up and be happy.

EarthCitizen07

posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 02:34 PM

link

Originally posted by FreeFromTheHerd

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
Once AGAIN the unions are being BULLIED by big business and their cohorts in government. NYC is republican so no suprise there.

The company would rather people die of heat stroke than give employees livable wages and respectable pensions. Makes me mad as hell!

Reaganomics 101

Are you serious with this crap?

The union would rather people die than work an extra 10 minutes a day or skip a break once in a while.

Union monkeys are very overpaid for the services provided.

Fine. YOU work 3 part time jobs then and settle for whatever peanuts the employer is willing to give you. And if you don't like it then pack your bag and move to china. But be aware there are also many sweatshops in china so you will not have much of a voice there either.