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Ancient Tree-Ring Records from Southwest U.S. Suggest Today's Megafires Are Truly Unusual

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posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 05:38 AM
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Ancient Tree-Ring Records from Southwest U.S. Suggest Today's Megafires Are Truly Unusual




Today's mega forest fires of the southwestern U.S. are truly unusual and exceptional in the long-term record, suggests a new study that examined hundreds of years of ancient tree ring and fire data from two distinct climate periods.


The researchers have found that ancient trees and forests did not experience such devastating wild fires even in past drought or long-term hotter periods. One of the likeliest reasons why the American southwest today experiences such massive fires is human activity, which prevent "low-severity surface fires", among a few other activities that lead to these huge "canopy-killing" forest fires.

The trend in the weather in the southwest is not looking good - it's getting much hotter, drier, with little room for nature to absorb such conditions. We're seeing a return of the "derechos" (which were last caused by man when we stripped the topsoil and grasses from the plains);




We're seeing a steady rise in temperatures and violent storms throughout the lower portion of the US. (more than 9,000 daily heat records have been broken this past month alone). And just in time, the US government has decided to end record-keeping of these anomalies... (
US Breaks Heat Records as Republicans End Record-Keeping)



Let's just hope mankind can pull it's collective head out of it's *** and allow nature some room to moderate these temperatures and extreme weather patterns.




posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 06:23 AM
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reply to post by Blackmarketeer
 


My (very sketchy) understanding of this issue is that Native tribes used to undertake controlled fires for a variety of reasons, not least of which is that it prevents fuel from building for the type of mega fires we see today. Then came Western man, decided he knew better and abandoned this practice! Ok - that is a very basic run down but that was my understanding......



posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 08:27 AM
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Originally posted by Flavian
reply to post by Blackmarketeer
 


My (very sketchy) understanding of this issue is that Native tribes used to undertake controlled fires for a variety of reasons, not least of which is that it prevents fuel from building for the type of mega fires we see today. Then came Western man, decided he knew better and abandoned this practice! Ok - that is a very basic run down but that was my understanding......


My understanding as well. In West Michigan the Native Americans used to do controlled burns on the tallgrass prairies once every 3 to 5 years. This was to maintain the habitat, something the forest service is beginning to understand and use now.
edit on 2-7-2012 by MichiganSwampBuck because: Added one omitted word.



posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 09:46 AM
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The Colorado fire are in a area where they have not had a major fire in 100 years.

This lead to major overgrowth and a lot of dead ground cover and bark beetle infestations

This was just plain lack of good forest management. because the treehuggers don't like winter controlled burns to thin things out'



posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 11:24 AM
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Originally posted by ANNED
The Colorado fire are in a area where they have not had a major fire in 100 years.

This lead to major overgrowth and a lot of dead ground cover and bark beetle infestations

This was just plain lack of good forest management. because the treehuggers don't like winter controlled burns to thin things out'


You're on the right track. I used to be in wildland fire management. There were three areas that we focused on: Suppression, Fire Use, and Prescribed burns.

To say that it is lack of good forest management is somewhat true, and somewhat false. You have to look back over the last 100 years of our "fire management". At the beginning, we (as in the populous in general) had a very hands off approach. Fires were left to burn. As time progressed, and "we" started moving out of the urban/suburban areas, and started building houses that bordered on forest land, the strategy turned to suppression. This suppression strategy is really what has harmed us. The buildup of fuels from these activities has hampered healthy forests.

Back to my areas of expertise. First off: Suppression. This is used in majority of incident responses. The reasons vary from most importantly, human life then next property. You have to understand that forest have value. Whether it be for harvesting purposes or for public usage.

Fire Use (the "Let it Burn" strategy). This is sort of new to the fire management realm. The real benefits of Fire Use were realized during the Yellowstone fires of 1988 (might have been 1989). The regrowth from a "nuked" fire area was alarming to most if not all forest managers. They were under the impression that a fire burning that intensely and for such a duration would "sterilize" the ground. The reasonings for this were from Southwest area fires that had burned 50 years prior and still had not seen proper vegetation regrowth. The current Fire Use strategy has a number of "go/no-go" checklists to actually get it to be classified as "Fire Use". The first and foremost is that the area where the fire started has been allocated as a "Fire Use Area". The second and almost as important criteria is that the fire has to be naturally started (i.e. Lightning caused). Getting an area designated Fire Use requires major planning and coordination with various levels of government from the local level all the way up to the national level.

Prescibed Fire. This strategy is usually used for resource improvement. Getting a "mosaic" pattern in the vegetation promotes a stronger habitat for plants and wildlife. The mosaic pattern is basically saying in a block of land (say an acre), the fire would be encouraged to burn only parts of that block, leaving old vegetation in areas to promote regrowth. The problems with Prescribed fires though is that it requires almost perfect conditions to even initiate the burn. These conditions include weather (temps, wind, relative humidities), fuels (this is the term for vegetation(fuel moistures have to be in a certain range)), time of year (usually take place in spring or fall where atmospheric conditions and burn windows are optimal). In my experience, I've been on several burns that were either postponed or cancelled due to the above conditions not being met.
In Colorado, this is very evident why prescribed fire has not been used in recent years. Drought conditions, urban interface, and beetle infestation has sort of "tied" managers hands. The best way I could see parts of CO pulling off a successful prescribed burn would be to clear-cut portions of the forest, pile it up, and wait 2-3 years for them to cure, and then wait for the storm of the century to hit before lighting each pile. Fiscally it is impossible to pull that off.

It is a mess, but managers are becoming more acceptive of alternative resource management besides suppression. They do realize that it is causing more intense fires to burn. The fuel loading in most if not all forests is to be honest, an epidemic. Very unhealthy stands of forest, and very much the reason the beetle infestation has happened (but also the beetle thing is a cyclical event, happening every century or so), have caused these high intensity fires.

Oh and Smokey Bear is not your friend. The mantra of "Only you" has been part of the reason fires have grown in intensity. Let it burn should be the saying of the future and is slowly being adopted. Just need to get these homeowners that build their multi-million dollar mansions right next to the woods to be a little smarter. There are ways of protecting your house and from experience the majority of them would rather have a rustic looking building that is un-saveable than to use government programs designed to help save their property (FireWise). Also insurance co's need to stop covering these homes that don't do any structure improvements or make any attempt to make their property more fire resistant.



posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 12:12 PM
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reply to post by ANNED
 
It's not just the treehuggers who are resistant to fire mitigation efforts.

I'm far south of Colorado Springs we have 100's of acres of dead pinon from the beetle infestation. The land development I'm in has maybe 9 full time residents. The hubby and I have been working to clear our land. We called in a crew of woodcutters from a nearby town to help. They did a great job and only wanted a portion of the firewood as payment.

I want my neighbors/landowners to start doing likewise but they refuse. Only one other resident has brought in a wood cutting crew.

Whenever I suggest this the residents say the crews are selling the wood???? So what! They worked for it and in turn they're doing us a great service. The residents feel it's better to let it all burn than to let the "locals" get something for nothing. They see the pinon wood as money and can't stand the fact that someone might profit off their land. I tell them to harvest it/sell it themselves. They won't do it, it's hard dirty work in rough country.

So the wood sits there. My development is huge, hundreds of acres. Two non-resident landowners adjacent to our property has given us permission to cut on their land but they will only allow the hubby and I, no crews.

If this development catches fire we will explode. Pinon is so full of pitch and with little rain the wood takes a long time to rot. We have no hydrants firefighters have to truck in water. A controlled burn, even in winter, could easily get out of hand with our winds. Imo clearing out the dead trees is the only way.

At least treehuggers are on a personal mission, my neighbors are just being greedy, hateful and ignorant.



posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 12:29 PM
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If a tree was on fire in the past what are the chances that tree would have made it to the future? So are the odds against the scientist in finding ancient trees that survived Forrest fires higher?



posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 03:43 PM
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"The U.S. would not be experiencing massive large-canopy-killing crown fires today if human activities had not begun to suppress the low-severity surface fires that were so common more than a century ago,"


Fire suppression is centered around protecting the timber industries profits and rich people's mountain homes. When the forests arent routinely burned, they build up too much dead and thick growth. Combine that with pine beetle die off and extreme heat waves/drought, you've got a recipe for destruction.

I think in the next ten years, much of the west coast may burn if these conditions continue.
edit on 2-7-2012 by stanguilles7 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 03:48 PM
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OK. So we're not saying the fires are from Global Warming. We're saying that with 300plus Million people in the U.S. our government managing all aspects of our life is not perfect.
Got it.
Global weather conditions manmade enhanced, "may" be part of the problem either by accident or design.(Weather manipulation)
When you read about wolves being introduced back into the wilderness in Montana and "stroll" down to Oregon and kill livestock, you see we're not quite as clevor controlling all aspects of our lives by someone else, anyway you slice it. (not pro or against hunting or guns)
wolfhuntupdate.blogspot.com... (Warning graphic)

These fires have not been the norm? Not Cool!
I was under the impression that we as humans, were mearly getting in the way of natural occurences by way of encroachment.

Gee thanks. Something else to worry about now.


Great posts though.
Thanks for the info.



posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 09:01 PM
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Originally posted by Morningglory
...
The residents feel it's better to let it all burn than to let the "locals" get something for nothing. They see the pinon wood as money and can't stand the fact that someone might profit off their land. I tell them to harvest it/sell it themselves. They won't do it, it's hard dirty work in rough country.
...


They didn't "get something for nothing"... They WORKED for it... It was an exchange of service for tender, although the tender was not coin, but it was equal to coin.

That form of CAPITALISM/FREE MARKETS was used for millennia before tender coin/shells were used.

Now you are trying to turn this into an "economic/political" issue...



posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 09:05 PM
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reply to post by niceguybob
 


Do people forget the fact that Al Qaeda warned a couple of years back that they will set forest fires and "America will burn"?...

If I remember correctly the warning stated that they already had "sleeper cells" in position to do this.


Denver FBI Warns of Jihadist Wildfire Threat

By Matthew Harwood

05/25/2012 -

The Denver Field Office of the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) has warned Colorado and Wyoming law enforcement of the potential threat that jihadists could start wildfires as a form of terrorist attack.

The situational information report (.pdf), dated May 7, references an article in the winter issue of Inspire, a jihadist webzine produced by al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP). The terrorist organization, an al Qaeda affiliate, has been called the most significant terrorist threat facing the United States by American national security officials, most recently FBI Director Robert Mueller.
...

www.securitymanagement.com...


The Department of Homelands security is warning that terrorists are planning large-scale wildfires attacks near densely populated areas across the country.

Public Intelligence
June 14, 2012

The Federal Bureau of Investigation, Department of Homeland Security and fusion centers around the country are warning that terrorists are interested in using fire as a weapon, particularly in the form of large-scale wildfires near densely populated areas. A newly released DHS report states that for more than a decade “international terrorist groups and associated individuals have expressed interest in using fire as a tactic against the Homeland to cause economic loss, fear, resource depletion, and humanitarian hardship.
...

http://(nolink)/2012/06/14/dhs-warns-alqaeda-planning-largescale-wildfire-attacks-146361/

Yes there are radical Muslims in the world that do want to do this...


edit on 2-7-2012 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 09:15 PM
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Originally posted by ANNED


This was just plain lack of good forest management. because the treehuggers don't like winter controlled burns to thin things out'


No. "Treehuggers', as pointed out above, dont set forestry policy. The logging companies and wealthy home owners with 4000 sq foot mansions in the hills do. And they have focused on suppression, which makes the forests unhealthy and susceptible to mass burns.



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 02:27 AM
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Originally posted by Blackmarketeer
..
US Breaks Heat Records as Republicans End Record-Keeping)



Let's just hope mankind can pull it's collective head out of it's *** and allow nature some room to moderate these temperatures and extreme weather patterns.


First of all, the link from above is about what DEMOCRATS claim Republicans are doing. They are just playing politics.

Keeping temperatures, and using millions, if not billions to record and keep such records are not going to stop Climate Change, and that is a fact.

We are in a GLOBAL ECONOMIC CRISIS, one which has been created by the world elites to PUSH for their global agenda for a "One World Socialist/Social/Democrat Government to combat Climate Change.

The governments of Europe, the United States, and Japan are unlikely to negotiate a social-democratic pattern of globalization – unless their hands are forced by a popular movement or a catastrophe, such as another Great Depression or ecological disaster

These governments would not accept a "social-democratic pattern of globalization" unless their hands are FORCED by a popular movement (Occupy and Anthropogenic Global Warming movements), another Great Depression (the current GLOBAL economic crisis), or an ecological disaster (Global Warming been blamed on humans)



Democratising Global Governance:

The Challenges of the World Social Forum

by

Francesca Beausang


ABSTRACT

This paper sums up the debate that took place during the two round tables organized by UNESCO within the first World Social Forum in Porto Alegre (25/30 January 2001). It starts with a discussion of national processes, by examining democracy and then governance at the national level. It first states a case for a "joint" governance based on a combination of stakeholder theory, which is derived from corporate governance, and of UNESCO's priorities in the field of governance. As an example, the paper investigates how governance can deviate from democracy in the East Asian model. Subsequently, the global dimension of the debate on democracy and governance is examined, first by identification of the characteristics and agents of democracy in the global setting, and then by allusion to the difficulties of transposing governance to the global level.

www.unesco.org...

The above paper is from 1991 from the UN (UNESCO is a branch of the UN in case you didn't know). It, and the meetings these globalists have been having call for a GLOBAL SOCIALIST/FASCIST GOVERNMENT derived from CORPORATE GOVERNANCE...

Meanwhile the crisis was created, it is still real and from somewhere we must stop so much spending. Not only on climate science which has been proven to be still in it's infancy, but also on other issues where we are spending billions of dollars.

Next should be U.S. aid. We have to stop GIVING AWAY BILLIONS OF DOLLARS ANNUALLY to other countries, which has aided the world elites in cripling the U.S. and world economy.


U.S. gives billions of dollars in foreign aid to world's richest countries - then asks to borrow it back

By Daily Mail Reporter
UPDATED:11:23 EST, 3 June 2011

The U.S. is providing hundreds of millions of dollars of foreign aid to some of the world's richest countries - while at the same time borrowing billions back, according to report seen by Congress.

The Congressional Research Service released the report last month which shows that in 2010 the U.S. handed out a total of $1.4bn to 16 foreign countries that held at least $10bn in Treasury securities.

Four countries in the world's top 10 richest received foreign aid last year with China receiving $27.2m, India $126.6m, Brazil $25m, and Russia $71.5m.
...

www.dailymail.co.uk...

What the DEMOCRATS are doing is playing politics. It is that simple.

What we really must do is adapt to the changes that will continue happening and which we will not be able to stop, or mitigate.


edit on 3-7-2012 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 10:07 AM
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Originally posted by ElectricUniverse


We are in a GLOBAL ECONOMIC CRISIS, one which has been created by the world elites to PUSH for their global agenda for a "One World Socialist/Social/Democrat Government to combat Climate Change.



Balderdash. The current economic meltdown is the result of major international and american banks engaging in risky schemes that created bubbles of wealth that disappeared overnight, which came about because of deregulated banking and lending markets, perpetuated by both American political parties.



posted on Jul, 4 2012 @ 04:58 AM
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Originally posted by stanguilles7

Balderdash. The current economic meltdown is the result of major international and american banks engaging in risky schemes that created bubbles of wealth that disappeared overnight, which came about because of deregulated banking and lending markets, perpetuated by both American political parties.


LOL, right...blame it all on "Americans"... How typical...

How about you look in the mirror to see where some of that blame is partially from?...

Most of the richest people in the world are not even Americans...

I even showed evidence/FACTS that the economic crisis, alongside other crisis like "AGW (Anthropogenic Global Warming) were created to pull in countries like the U.S. into the "let's form a world government" camp, and you, alongside some others, decide to ignore, or dismiss such evidence/FACTS...

Oh, and btw, lending is not really part of capitalism/free markets, that is a scheme created by the left to bankrupt capitalist nations. It is similar to a welfare system, a nanny state where the government/state claims responsibility for people, but instead of being dependent on the government/state you are dependent of banks.

Too many people have fallen for the scam and are in real bad debt. Thankfully I have no debt at all, and use no credit cards at all. Whatever I buy, I buy it because I can. I also don't buy "the latest thing" like so many people do.

People need to take responsibility for their actions and be truly independent.

If you depend on thinking that you will always be able to pay in the future for something you want now you will always be in debt, and might find yourself not being able to pay for your debt. Look at how many jobs have been lost, and how many people have no jobs unfortunately. Most of them probably didn't think they would lose their jobs.

It is going to get harder and harder for people to be able to pay their debts, it is part of the scheme to make people slaves/dependent of the government/state and the rich world socialist/fascist elites.


edit on 4-7-2012 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 09:23 AM
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Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by stanguilles7

Balderdash. The current economic meltdown is the result of major international and american banks engaging in risky schemes that created bubbles of wealth that disappeared overnight, which came about because of deregulated banking and lending markets, perpetuated by both American political parties.


LOL, right...blame it all on "Americans"... How typical...

How about you look in the mirror to see where some of that blame is partially from?...

Most of the richest people in the world are not even Americans...


I'm not blaming all Americans, or rich people. Stay on topic. I'm saying the collapse of the american banking sector is what triggered the financial collapse, not the 'carbon tax'.

You're absurd.




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