God particle is 'found': Scientists at Cern expected to announce on Wednesday Higgs boson particle

reply to post by dxdydz


So there's really nothing so godly about this particle? Well, that's a lot of excitement for nothing.

I want my money back...

Originally posted by Swamper

Originally posted by Azdraik
That does what for us?
What innovations can come out of this discovery?

Well as I understand it, this thing comes into existence in everything to give particles mass then disappears. So without it, the particles would have no mass and would travel at the speed of light I suppose maybe in every direction(?) And me personally, still with alot of physics to learn, think that maybe we could use it to take apart mass of something and then use it again at another location forming the exact particles as it was before.

I don't know though, I don't know much else but that one fact about the particle.

Not exactly how it works. Its like any other force really. The higgs is a gauge boson, which means it permeates a field around it, just like an electromagnetic field. Everything inside the higgs field is affected so that it is given a new property (mass,), this property is determined by the particles other properties. Just like electromagentic fields gives particles charge, if there was no electromagnetism, charged particles would not interact any differently.

This is just a basic explanation, if you wanna really know all the physics behind this and whats really happening youre gonna need to do some reading as there a lot more things at play.

Why not wait until Wednesday for this thread, after the actual announcement?

Its been well reported for the last few months that this is the expected result. After the announcement the web will be awash with stories of what this implies and where we will go next, all good fodder for discussion.

Instead somebody will start a thread and we will have to sift through the obligatory 'Already discussed here....'

This is taking some of the shine off the big day :/

Just to quosh any idea of nonsense reporting from the Daily Mail (as if), this is being reported in other media, here's a quote from CERN employee

Wa shington Post

“I agree that any reasonable outside observer would say, ‘It looks like a discovery,’” British theoretical physicist John Ellis, a professor at King’s College London who has worked at CERN since the 1970s, told The Associated Press, according to the report. “We’ve discovered something which is consistent with being a Higgs.”

This has important implications for proponents of Supersymmetry (en.wikipedia.org...) and the Minimal Supersymmetric Standard Model (en.wikipedia.org...). At 125 gigaelectronvolts (GeV), the Higgs Boson would require such unpalatable changes to the "aesthetic" of Supersymmetry, by leaving no room for a "Top Quark," that many physicists would abandon the theory altogether. (at least according to this article, anyway)
LINK: www.wired.com...

The only thing that this particle does is make Stephen Hawkins lose a bet and need to pay a hamburguer... Don't believe me? Check it out!

So if they identified the Higgs Boson, could they then build a device which alters the behavior of the Higgs, resulting in things like FTL travel and teleportation?

Originally posted by SLAYER69
First off S & F

I was just reading this then checked to see if anybody had posted it yet.

Originally posted by magma
Even if we did understand the universe better because of this proven partical , all man will do is exploit it for personal gain, invoking more pain and suffering.

Man is destructive enough without the key to the secret.

Top 5 Implications of Finding the Higgs Boson

*The Origin of Mass
The Higgs boson has long been thought the key to resolving the mystery of the origin of mass.

Yes but only a little bit. It helps resolve the mystery of the origin of mass for leptons like electrons, but still most (95%+) of the mass in ordinary matter is from interactions between quarks in the nucleus whose behavior is NOT determined by the Higgs mechanism (which implies the Higgs boson). (Actually about 7 people working in 2 or 3 different groups in the 1960's all proposed essentially the same theory for explaining electron mass, it was Peter Higgs who pointed out that the theory implied a new boson, so he go t the cool name).


It does not help resolve the incompatibility of quantum mechanics and general relativity, does not explain how mass helps cause gravity, does not explain why inertial mass is gravitational mass.

*The Standard Model
The Standard Model is the reigning theory of particle physics that describes the universe's very small constituents.

*The Electroweak Force
Discovering the Higgs boson would also help explain how two of the fundamental forces of the universe — the electromagnetic force that governs interactions between charged particles, and the weak force that's responsible for radioactive decay — can be unified.

Yes, but nobody has doubted Electroweak theory now, the Higgs boson is the culmination of it.

The Standard Model is right, unfortunately, because it is a rather cranky and ugly theory. Classical field theories of electromagnetism and general relativity are beautiful theoretically, but the Standard Model really isn't.

*Supersymmetry
Another theory that would be affected by the discovery of the Higgs is called supersymmetry. This idea posits that every known particle has a "superpartner" particle with slightly different characteristics.

Not really, you can have Higgs with or without supersymmetry. To find supersymmetry we need to discover experimental evidence for it (so far, none).

*Validation of LHC
The discovery of the Higgs would offer major validation for the LHC and for the scientists who've worked on the search for many years.

As in "don't cut our budget", yes that's pretty important.

Scientifically, finding Higgs, and only one Higgs, exactly where it was supposed to be---and nothing else---is the worst possible scientific outcome from the LHC (other than a technical failure). Boring.

Moreover, the Nobel Prize committee has cut the award because of the poor performance of its endowment, so Professor Higgs after hanging on for so many years is going to be a bit shortchanged.

The one thing that really pisses me off is the way people are twisting this science to make it seem like they are saying "god exists". The name of a particle is just that, the name. Relax.

Originally posted by Vandettas
The one thing that really pisses me off is the way people are twisting this science to make it seem like they are saying "god exists". The name of a particle is just that, the name. Relax.

No, it's not the name of the particle. The particle's name is "Higgs boson". The name of Leon Lederman's book was supposed to be "The Goddamned Particle" because it was taking so long to find, but his book editor changed it.

Perhaps Mr. McKenna was right. Maybe the technological singularity is approaching quickly

reply to post by BULLPIN


Hopefully the findings will be substantial enough for giving light to truths in reference to The Standard Model and it's associated theories.

Didn't they say the particle wasn't real, but the sensor was 'mis-timed'

Apparently Tevatron scientists have narrowed the gap to find the Higgs Boson between 115 and 135 GeV/c2

phys.org...

These results were just released today.

Originally posted by TheDebunkMachine

Originally posted by Swamper

Originally posted by Azdraik
That does what for us?
What innovations can come out of this discovery?

Well as I understand it, this thing comes into existence in everything to give particles mass then disappears. So without it, the particles would have no mass and would travel at the speed of light I suppose maybe in every direction(?) And me personally, still with alot of physics to learn, think that maybe we could use it to take apart mass of something and then use it again at another location forming the exact particles as it was before.

I don't know though, I don't know much else but that one fact about the particle.

Not exactly how it works. Its like any other force really. The higgs is a gauge boson, which means it permeates a field around it, just like an electromagnetic field. Everything inside the higgs field is affected so that it is given a new property (mass,),

Theoretically massless particles which interact with the Higgs field (excluding the photon, which is why it's massless) get slowed down and since they act like they have inertia and mass, scientists say they have mass.

The fact that there's a Higgs scalar field means that there is a potential excitation of this field. However, in most cases (like real life at energies less than 125 Gev) there isn't enough energy to excite the field to create a Higgs particle, but the action of the field still is there. So you aren't making Higgs particles as you walk around any more than when you turn on a flashlight you create electron-positron pairs from the vacuum (not enough energy), even though a super-high energy photon can, in fact do just that.

Analogy. You're in your typical World of Fantasycraft MMO. There is a viscous universal slime mud on the ground everywhere which makes characters walk at a slow speed (except for flying creatures called photons) and need to expend metabolic energy to speed up. If you're a really powerful high level character with a level-80 turbohorse, as you plow through this universal mud, out of the wake it makes a few mudcreatures (all named Mister Higglesworth) which spin off and live for a few nanoseconds until they turn into bunches of Level-1 orcs.

LHC is counting orcs.

In particular, looking for mudcreature-derived orcs among the usual quintillion of horde orcs streaming from their lairspawn. What's worse, all orcs look the same to stupid humans who can't smell.

It's a good discovery, but it still doesn't tell you why the world has a toroidal topology.

reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL


I honestly think that we will never know how the universe really works as we have this nasty habit of interpreting data through biased eyes. I think we need to stop worrying about what's happening in the nethers and worry more about the issues that affect us all. Such a waste of funds.

Am I only one who immediately thinks back to that show that aired titled "Flash Forward"

If I recall correctly, everyone on the planet lost time and saw the same day into the future. They were dealing with Hadron Colliders I believe and Quantum Mechanics

What exactly does it mean in relation to the fact that i like ice cream?

Originally posted by Ilyich
How can a particle, that exists for a very short time and is responsible for causing sub atomic particles to join together to simply exist be weaponized? This discovery merely proves the existence of certain scientific theories, that until this discovery were basically supported by an educated guess. This isn't going to make leaps and bounds for innovations, or weaponry but rather an understanding as to why everything exists as it does.

If you can control the natural mechanism for converting energy into mass (manifestation in physical space) then you can control the mass of all things... provided you have the energy. This particle "creates" physical particles as they drop below the speed of light and converts physical particles to energy as they increase above the speed of light. This is the mechanism that explains the observed theory of relativity E=MC^2.

i.e. "God" particle.

A good application would be using energy to create food in an instant (think food replicators in Star Trek) with this kind of control; but the terror of thinking about how this could be used for evil far outweighs the benefits when the perogative of God is given to selfish mankind.

In many ways the discovery of this particle represents the highest possible technological power (if harnessed) in all physics, which is the very reason God must stop us from destroying ourselves at this moment in time.

The ability to determine the physical manifestation of the subspace energy demention (anti-matter) is not meant to be given to mankind at this time.

We believe if we could harness the power of God, we would do great things. But the full leason of this age (age of mankinds self rule) is that with all knowledge given mankind has used it to destroy and impose his own selfish will.

That is the danger, and it is real.

God Bless,

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL


Well this is it. We have been waiting for this monumental discovery and it has been finally announced that the particle does indeed exist. The particle is fundamental as a part of the standard model of the universe. I await to see what more excitement it holds. This just verifies that we are perhaps on the right track to understanding how our universe operates

www.dailymail.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

Technically nothing has been announced yet, so this post is a bit misleading.