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Guns Don’t Kill People, Government Having a Monopoly on Force Does

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posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 07:30 PM
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Article

All Political power comes from a barrel of a gun as the Chinese dictator told us. This is so true even though he murdered over 100 million people who could not resist. Why; because he had the power of life and death when he deceived the population into disarming themselves. Joseph Stalin murdered 60 million people. Pol Pot millions and Rwanda hundreds of thousands hacked to death after the people were disarmed of any means self defense. Tyrants do not want people to have arms because they do not want their power to be challenged by the people rising up against them.


Representatives for the United Nations Conference on the Arms Trade Treaty arrived in New York today for their conference this month (July 2-27). The UN insists it’s not trying to outlaw firearms yet the Arms Trade Treaty conference is under the auspices of the United Nations Office of Disarmament Affairs.


Whether Obama signs this treaty or not I certainly won’t abide by it. Our second amendment is continuously under assault and, quite frankly, I’m SICK OF IT! A blue hat makes a fine target, so good luck enforcing the rules! American citizens are under no obligation to abide by unlawful instructions that contradict the constitution.

Are we going to continue allowing these idiots in our government to sign away our constitutional rights and bypass congress?? This is sickening!! Bush 1 signed UN’s Agenda 21 which was the catalyst (and precedent) for all of these UN power grabs. We need to follow this closely. If our current POTUS signs onto this plan he will have once again usurped power from congress and the people….this CANNOT BE TOLERATED.

I will leave you with a final quote from the article.


Never feel ashamed owning a firearm. Gun ownership is as American as apple pie. We should never be apologetic or compromising with these people for their favor. The gun grabbers never compromise and always get what they want because we have spineless politicians who are trying to just get along then standing up for our liberty. We do not have to be reasonable with the gun control crowd, what they have planned is not reasonable at all. “The extreme defense of liberty is no vice” as Barry Goldwater said.




posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 07:51 PM
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Originally posted by seabag

Article

All Political power comes from a barrel of a gun as the Chinese dictator told us. This is so true even though he murdered over 100 million people who could not resist. Why; because he had the power of life and death when he deceived the population into disarming themselves. Joseph Stalin murdered 60 million people. Pol Pot millions and Rwanda hundreds of thousands hacked to death after the people were disarmed of any means self defense. Tyrants do not want people to have arms because they do not want their power to be challenged by the people rising up against them.


Representatives for the United Nations Conference on the Arms Trade Treaty arrived in New York today for their conference this month (July 2-27). The UN insists it’s not trying to outlaw firearms yet the Arms Trade Treaty conference is under the auspices of the United Nations Office of Disarmament Affairs.


Whether Obama signs this treaty or not I certainly won’t abide by it. Our second amendment is continuously under assault and, quite frankly, I’m SICK OF IT! A blue hat makes a fine target, so good luck enforcing the rules! American citizens are under no obligation to abide by unlawful instructions that contradict the constitution.

Are we going to continue allowing these idiots in our government to sign away our constitutional rights and bypass congress?? This is sickening!! Bush 1 signed UN’s Agenda 21 which was the catalyst (and precedent) for all of these UN power grabs. We need to follow this closely. If our current POTUS signs onto this plan he will have once again usurped power from congress and the people….this CANNOT BE TOLERATED.

I will leave you with a final quote from the article.


Never feel ashamed owning a firearm. Gun ownership is as American as apple pie. We should never be apologetic or compromising with these people for their favor. The gun grabbers never compromise and always get what they want because we have spineless politicians who are trying to just get along then standing up for our liberty. We do not have to be reasonable with the gun control crowd, what they have planned is not reasonable at all. “The extreme defense of liberty is no vice” as Barry Goldwater said.


I wholeheartedly share your sentiments on this Seabag. However, apple pie is not of American origin. I know that's a little off topic, but, it was in a quote from the article. Other than that, as I stated before, my sentiments exactly Sea.



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 07:54 PM
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reply to post by poloblack
 



I understand apple pie has been around since the middle ages! It's an American expression...as you know.

Thanks for the support otherwise!



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 08:02 PM
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Originally posted by seabag
Representatives for the United Nations Conference on the Arms Trade Treaty ...



Hadnt heard of it, so search and found the web page.
It only talks of the international trade, and specifically says...

The ATT will not:
Interfere with the domestic arms trade and the way a country regulates civilian possession


So unless there is something you know that isnt made public, its not clear to me how this it going to take away any guns from Americans.





Originally posted by seabag
...yet the Arms Trade Treaty conference is under the auspices of the United Nations Office of Disarmament Affairs.


Again, did a search and found the web page.
They have an "overview" and "about us" section which really just deals with Nuclear, Chemical and Biological weapon disarmament.
The only discussion of small arms refers back to the Treaty (mentioned above) and again speaks in regard to the international arms trade.

Once again, unless I'm missing something, I'm not seeing anything about disarming Americans.



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 08:04 PM
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The typical American pie made from uncooked apples, fat, sugar, and sweet spices mixed together and baked inside a closed pie shell descends from fifteenth-century English apple pies, which, while not quite the same, are similar enough that the relationship is unmistakable. By the end of the sixteenth century in England, apple pies were being made that are virtually identical to those made in America in the early twenty-first century.

Apple pies came to America quite early. There are recipes for apple pie in both manuscript receipts and eighteenth-century English cookery books imported into the colonies... WTF??!!

Never mind the apple pies--the 2nd Amendment is under attack!

Seriously, though: We've had numerous reassurances that this treaty has nothing to do with gun ownership and the 2nd Amendment. We've also had ample assurances that Obama is a supporter of gun ownership and the 2nd Amendment. Which is what worries me. His record so far shows that whatever he says, you can expect the exact opposite. So--for whatever that's worth....



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 08:08 PM
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Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by poloblack
 



I understand apple pie has been around since the middle ages! It's an American expression...as you know.

Thanks for the support otherwise!


I should have known that you knew that lol. I wasn't questioning your knowledge on the matter though, and you're right, it is an American expression. Been hearing it all my life. Remember that old Chevy commercial from way back in the day? Baseball, hot dogs, apple pie, and Chevrolet! And you're welcome, man.



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 08:19 PM
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Actually people can kill each other with guns as well. The trick is having guns to protect yourself from an usurpation of power or invasion and refrain from turning the guns on each other in times of peace.



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 08:28 PM
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reply to post by alfa1
 


I appreciate your response but don’t be disingenuous and try to mislead people about what this conference is about.

From your link at the UN:


Concerned by the misuse of weaponry around the world, civil society organizations have successfully mobilized governments and parliamentarians to call for the global regulation of the conventional arms trade.


Does that sound like gun control? This is an attempt to further regulate the sale of guns. One thing leads to another and before you know it we’ve signed on to all of the UN’s garbage. If US signs on it opens the door to UN (global) scrutiny and enforcement of gun laws across the board in US.

Have you read Agenda 21? Here’s a preview of what’s coming!




Agenda 21 is a U.N. policy document adopted at the U.N.’s Earth Summit in 1992.
It promotes “sustainable development,” which sounds so friendly, but is about changing the very infrastructure of the nation, away from private ownership and control of property to central planning of the entire economy.
Sustainable development’s agenda includes gun control, open borders, cap and trade, food control, farming “reform,” refusal to drill American oil, population control, and U.N. global governance.
link

I suggest people stop being so damned naive before we’ve lost the country!!



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 08:34 PM
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reply to post by Cassius666
 



The trick is having guns to protect yourself from an usurpation of power or invasion and refrain from turning the guns on each other in times of peace.


Love your avatar!


Of course, what you said is what’s at stake IMO! As the article I quoted rightfully pointed out, many millions have died because their “leaders” have led them first to disarmament then to their death…….we cannot follow that path. The constitution (particularly the 2nd amendment) is NON-NEGOTIABLE!



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 08:42 PM
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reply to post by seabag
 


Gun ownership in the US in the past 30 years has steadily gone uphill.
To disarm the US would be bloody, but those of us who believe in our rights would not stop at our borders either.
Run to South America or Europe or Asia, we'll find you and put you down.
We're not lambs for the slaughter, it will never come but there will be a price.



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 09:12 PM
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I know is thread will have lots of opinion and stuff... That is good, however...

Any chance we could see something regarding the treaty itself before forming an opinion? Just in case it's nothing more than the UN pressing for international standards on import, export, and transfer of arms, rather than the disarming of Americans which seems to be implied here...



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 09:28 PM
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reply to post by Sek82
 



Any chance we could see something regarding the treaty itself before forming an opinion?


It’s been covered…this is page one, sir. Please follow the discussion on page ONE.

If I may ask…What role should the UN play in limiting the free sale of guns in the US? What role should the UN play in restricting or regulating gun trade in the US?



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 09:33 PM
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reply to post by seabag
 
Oh, I must have missed it among all the apple pie discussion.


Ok, let's take a look at the UN's goals as written, then.


This Treaty will seek to:
1. Promote the goals and objectives of the United Nations Charter;
2. Establish the highest possible common international standards for the import, export and transfer of conventional arms;
3. Prevent, combat and eradicate the illicit transfer, illicit production and illicit brokering of conventional arms and their diversion into the illicit market, including for use in transnational organized crime and terrorism;
4. Contribute to international and regional peace, security and stability by preventing international transfers of conventional arms that contribute to or facilitate: human suffering, serious violations of international human rights law and international humanitarian law, violations of United Nations Security Council sanctions and arms embargoes and other international obligations, armed conflict, the displacement of people, transnational organized crime, and terrorist acts, and thereby undermine peace, reconciliation, safety, security, stability and sustainable social and economic development;
5. Promote transparency and accountability in import, export, and transfers of conventional arms;
6. Be universal in its application.


There. Well, that certainly puts it into perspective (pdf). Still no mention of disarming Americans, thank God.

As a fellow gun lover (I don't own many, though), I'm just not worried. Consider that the scope of this treaty focuses on much more than SMALL arms (tanks, artillery, military vehicles/aircraft, etc), and that the second amendment protects our right to own small arms.

Regarding your questions, they are a what if scenario that cannot happen under the current UN Charter.

If you think otherwise, show how.
edit on 1-7-2012 by Sek82 because: Answers



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 09:55 PM
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Best advice I can give you:

Don't ask for your rights. Don't demand your rights. Just live them. "Rights" are not something that you ask for. It is, simply put, things that you do naturally.

I own guns. Lots of them. I buy one for me, then one for my youngest son. So we both have lots of guns. When he is a man, he will get his collection to take with him.

Best gun I have, strangely, is the cheapest. My dads Marlin 30-30 lever action. Man, i love that rifle. Devastating damage in the thick undergrowth out here in West Texas. My guns are used to kill food, not people. So i won't be shooting at any hats, be they blue, green, or pink.



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 10:29 PM
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Thank you for this thread, OP. Our 2A is more important than anyone can imagine whether you desire to own a firearm or not. Even if you are apathetic about guns, you should protect this right staunchly. There are deeper reasons for having it spelled out succinctly in our Bill of Rights to the Constitution.

What so many people are unable to do is see with seeing eyes and hear with hearing ears. I have read and re-read much of the material on UNODA's website, as well as other things the UN has espoused when it comes to the arms trade, especially small arms and conventional weapons.

Make no mistake.....they KNOW full well the extent of Americans' explicit right to KEEP and BEAR arms. The UN's goals are wide-reaching and intrusive. They KNOW they will have to nudge us a little at a time over a period of time. Obama is a big proponent of the nudge theory and no matter what he says in public to the American people, watch this man very carefully. He, imo, is an internationalist first and a sneak of the highest order.

As far as what the UN's Treaty seeks to do:

NEVER promote the UN's goals and objectives over those of the United States or allow them to establish standards for us when it comes to ANYTHING in our Bill of Rights or Constitution period. NEVER allow the UN to determine or define a single one of our parameters when it comes to gun ownership. NEVER allow them a foot in the door under the auspices of protecting our human rights.

When the Treaty says "Be universal", every hair on the back of your neck should stand up. Every red flag in your gut should rise high.



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 10:34 PM
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reply to post by queenofswords
 


If you are worried about your 2nd amendment, join the NRA. That is what i did. I fund the people who are fighting the fight like bulldogs, and who seem to consistently win. Best $50 investment in my own weaponry I have ever made.

and as an added bonus, you get the NRA spam to go along with it. Now you too can be offered affordable hearing insurance!



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 10:37 PM
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Read it and weep.

From Wiki's article on UN Arms Trade Treaty:
U.S. overturns former position

On 14 October 2009 the Obama administration announced in a statement released by Hillary Clinton and the State Department that it was overturning the position of former President George W. Bush's administration, which had opposed a proposed Arms Trade treaty on the grounds that national controls were better.[7] The shift in position by the U.S., the world's biggest arms exporter with a $55 billion-a-year trade in conventional firearms[8] (40 percent of the global total), led to the launching of formal negotiations at the United Nations in order to begin drafting the Arms Trade Treaty. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said in a statement the U.S. would support the negotiations on condition they are “under the rule of consensus decision-making needed to ensure that all countries can be held to standards that will actually improve the global situation.” Clinton said the consensus, in which every nation has an effective veto on agreements, was needed “to avoid loopholes in the treaty that can be directly exploited by those wishing to export arms irresponsibly.”[9]



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 11:18 PM
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reply to post by queenofswords
 
And from the same source:

The Arms Trade Treaty is the name of a potential multilateral treaty that would regulate the international trade in conventional weapons.

Who exactly should be weeping? American citizens protected under the 2nd, or international arms dealers?

Show me how the UN can reach into 2nd and "disarm" us. Until then this is another fearmonger thread without a foundation.


There is no "legal way around the 2nd Amendment" other than a further amendment to the Constitution that repeals or alters it, or a Supreme Court decision that radically reinterprets how the 2nd Amendment is to be applied.
Snopes: False
edit on 1-7-2012 by Sek82 because: Add additional content



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 11:29 PM
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Guns do not kill people Governments do in fact Government across the world have killed more in the name of "peace" and the citizen ever has.

A gun can set on a shelf for 1000 years and never kill anyone it has always been the person behind it. Gun control in that infinite stupidity only seeks to keep guns out of the hands of those who are deemed not to be "worthy" again that is not the citizen but the governments "henchman".

Gun control is a thought crime of what a person might do, but has not done then enter the UN with "it's small arms treaty" trying to make the "world a safer place" what for? so NATO,or the US or any 2 bit dictator have easy pickens?

There is a crime if i ever saw one the thing that has killed more people over any weapon ever created by man is his moral superiority complex.
edit on 1-7-2012 by neo96 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 11:40 PM
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reply to post by Sek82
 


Just keep a wary eye out on what the UN is up to. You may claim from a cursory look-see they are totally focused on international trade, but you would be wrong. You have, no doubt, read about the recent report China made trying to connect our 2A rights to human rights violations. Yes, they say the U.S. has failed to protect its citizens from crimes because of the availability of firearms. Of course, they want the UN to step in.

Nudging.

Now, as to your comment about "no legal way around the second amendment", read about norming and how Treaties are upheld through this process over a length of time.

Nudging.

And please. Don't quote Snopes. Everybody knows they can be less than accurate and have been caught protecting certain agendas of certain people.



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