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Can we test Geoengineering?

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posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 04:17 PM
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Hi !!

I found a few very interesting youtube videos featuring Ken Caldeira of the Carnegie Institution for Science and another somewhat less charismatic scientist discussing the possibility of testing geoengineering and I think these videos make a strong case for the FACT that geoengineering is still in it's infancy, it's theoretical stage only, and we only have to put our trust in the august institution Carnegie, for they have shaped the world for the betterment of mankind for over a century.

Watch!





This too!!



I take that back, Douggie Mac is CUTE!!

enjoy!
edit on 1-7-2012 by Pilot because: (no reason given)




posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 04:52 PM
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Testing for geoengineering would be quite trivial realy - go take some samples of the air you think is contaminated with something, test it against het make up of air you think is not contaminated, figure out where the different contaminants come from.

conceptually that is all there is.

Of course flying aircraft around to take high altitude air samples isn't cheap - but it isn't millions either - there have been posts and threads on here occasionally pointing out how it could be done. There has been at least one person suggesting using balloons to take samples and requesting donations so far he's only got 4% of what he's after

chemtrail believers paid $50k for the mythumentary What in the world are they spraying, and even moer for the forthcoming "Why in the world are they spraying" - but apaprently are unwiling to bother gathering ACTUAL verifiable evidence......IMO probably becuse they don't want to know the truth.



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 04:57 PM
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reply to post by Pilot
 


comtinue to sleep little bear
all is well, and god is in his heaven




Crimes of Carnegie:
“Protest Against Condoning Crime in the
Name of Philanthropy,” says Eugene V. Debs.
by Eugene V. Debs
1
Published in Missouri Socialist [St. Louis], v. 1, no. 15 (April 13, 1901), pg. 2.

Many thousands of misguided people are applauding
the alleged philanthropy of Andrew Carnegie
and of these by far the larger number are
workingmen. Manifestly they have forgotten, or
they have never heard of the horrors of Homestead
— or perhaps they are too ignorant to understand
or too cowardly to profit by the bloody
lesson.
The reckless prodigality of Carnegie with the
plunder of his victims brings into boldest prominence
the crimes he committed when they protested
against his monstrous rapacity. Then what?
An army of 300 Pinkerton mercenaries were hired
by this bloody benefactor to kill the men whose
labor had made him a millionaire. He did not have
the courage to execute his own murderous designs
so he commissioned another monster, Frick, by
name, with bloodless veins and a heart of steel, to
commit the crimes while he went to Europe and
held high carnival with the titled snobs there until
the ghastly work was done. It was one of the
foulest conspiracies ever concocted against the
working class and the very though of its atrocities,
after nearly 10 years, fires the blood and crimsons
the cheek with righteous indignation. Not
only were the Pinkerton murderers hired by Carnegie
to kill his employees, but he had his steel
works surrounded by wires charged with deadly
electric currents and by pipes filled with boiling
water so that in the event of a strike or lockout he
could shock the life out of their wretched bodies
or scald the flesh from their miserable bones.
And this is the man who proposes to erect
libraries for the benefit of the working class —
and incidentally for the glory of Carnegie.
Will the workingmen of this country accept
any gift from the hands of Andrew Carnegie, red
with the blood of their slain comrades? That some
of them have already done so is to their everlasting
shame. The employees who a few days ago
received, with expressions of gratitude, the bonded
booty, to be held in trust for them until they become
paupers, have debased themselves beyond
expression. They may have to work for Carnegie,
but they are not compelled to recognize as a gift
the pennies he throws them in return for the dollars
he stole from them, and when they do they
are guilty of treason to their murdered brothers,
and are better described as spineless poltroons than
as self-respecting workingmen.
Some years ago, when Carnegie endowed the first library for the alleged benefit of workingmen,I objected. And I object now with increased emphasis.
Such a library is monumental of the degeneracy
of the working class. It is a lasting rebuke to
their intelligence and their integrity.
The workingmen of New Castle have led the
revolt. Let their splendid example be followed
wherever a Carnegie library is suggested. Let mass
meetings of workingmen be held and let the horrifying
scenes of the Homestead massacre be presented to stir them to a sense of indignation at the vulgar and insulting display of the spoil exploited from their class.
Let honest workingmen everywhere protest
against the acceptance of a gift which condones
crime in the name of philanthropy. Let them put
themselves upon record in terms that appeal to
the honor of their class and the respect of all mankind.
We want libraries and we will have them in
glorious abundance when capitalism is abolished
and the workingmen are no longer robbed by the
philanthropic pirates of the Carnegie class.
Then the library will be as it should be, a
noble temple dedicated to culture and symbolizing
the virtues of the people.
Eugene Debs.
March 30, 1901.

www.marxisthistory.org...
and i am not a socialist/communist
so don't even go there



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 04:58 PM
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Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
Testing for geoengineering would be quite trivial realy - go take some samples of the air you think is contaminated with something, test it against het make up of air you think is not contaminated, figure out where the different contaminants come from.

conceptually that is all there is.

Of course flying aircraft around to take high altitude air samples isn't cheap - but it isn't millions either - there have been posts and threads on here occasionally pointing out how it could be done. There has been at least one person suggesting using balloons to take samples and requesting donations so far he's only got 4% of what he's after

chemtrail believers paid $50k for the mythumentary What in the world are they spraying, and even moer for the forthcoming "Why in the world are they spraying" - but apaprently are unwiling to bother gathering ACTUAL verifiable evidence......IMO probably becuse they don't want to know the truth.


Plus, computer models are way cheaper than rigging a plane to spray stuff, even if the model and real world results can't be correlated. At least they are practicing due diligence in theory



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 05:01 PM
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reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 


NON NON NON !!! mon petite kiwi-chicken


OP is not debunking chemtrails

he is claiming geo-engineering is only theoretical
and no active experiments are occuring
[obviously hasn't used search ]



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 05:02 PM
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reply to post by DerepentLEstranger
 

Awww, now why'd ya hafto go there man?? What about the scientists in the videos I posted? Do you really believe they would LIE, on camera, about the work they are doing? I appreciate your concern over the Carnegie Institute, but maybe they have evolved and are not so bad nowadays? Maybe?

Do you stranger have info about geoengineering that is happening? You said I didn't use search. Search for what?
edit on 1-7-2012 by Pilot because: add



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 05:04 PM
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Geoengineering covers a wide range of things, many of which are being done. One should be more precise when talking about what has and has not been tests.

What has NOT been tested is any form of solar radiation management that involves spraying things out of planes.



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 05:05 PM
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I noticed something quite strange recently, a collection of drill driver bits which had been left in the garden had gotten very rusty, after the rain recently, it made its way into the container, and whatever was in the rain has treated the rust and stopped its progress, they are now a dull black colour instead of a bright orange oxidised colour.
The only thing that got to them was rainwater, the same rainwater that had initialy started the rust off.

So the rust was started over a period of the last 18months, the rust was very progressed along the surface and in fact the tips of the drill driver bits which were above the water level in places, the rust still exists, where the driver bits were submerged, the rust has been treated.
Rainwater, only thing they have been exposed too, first started the rust off, then recently the amount of rain we had has replaced by dilution the water that was in there, and whatever was in it, has treated the rust.

If you think chemtrails are real, please collect some rainwater and see if it treats rust, these were not treated by me or anyone else the only thing they have been exposed to is the elements, i had written the driver bits off as being beyond further use as the rust was quite well progressed, but they are now inside in the drawer i keep my other drill bits in.
From oxidised orange to a dull black colour, i wiped them over with a cloth, the rust came off as a black substance leaving behind a dull black surface on the drill bits.



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 05:18 PM
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Originally posted by DerepentLEstranger
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 


NON NON NON !!! mon petite kiwi-chicken


OP is not debunking chemtrails


I know that....and??



he is claiming geo-engineering is only theoretical
and no active experiments are occuring


and I was pointing out how people who think that geoengineering is real could find verifiable evidence of "spraying" which is the geo-engineering boorey-man du jour these day (sic)



[obviously hasn't used search ]


Probably he has - which is how he knows all the claims made about spraying are arrant nonsense.

of course if you want to discuss the various ground based means of geoengineering that are well known and in use (carbon sequestration, reforrestation, cool roofs, etc) then I apologise....but somehow those never seem to be very controversial with the chemtail crown...even tho' they do exist!

I wonder why that is??



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 05:19 PM
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reply to post by Uncinus
 


Thank you Uncinus for joining in on my thread - the person of Ken Caldeira in the video is of particular interest to us-you see because he was a very vocal environmentalist/anti-nuke activist in his youth, and is now the recipient of a LIFETIME endowment from Carnegie, a guy like that can surely be trusted by Chemmies who are so paranoid about the ethics of scientists of the establishment variety. I have a keen insight into the paranoid ravings of chemtrailers, so please use my experience as a chemtrail believer to advance your agenda. I extend my hand in friendship, and more!!

I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but your avatar is subliminally erotic. I wish everyone would just agree with us a stop all this delusional mistrust of authority - it's doggone pathological!!

Peace brother!!



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 05:23 PM
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Ken's comments on the video are quite useful:


The question "Can geoengineering be tested?" is either trivially true or trivially false depending on what you mean by "tested".

If by "Can geoengineering be tested?" we mean "Is it in principle possible to perform tests that would give us more information about the likely consequences of an SRM deployment?", the answer is of course 'yes'.

If by this question we mean "Is it in principle possible to know everything one would like to know about the consequences of an SRM deployment prior to the deployment?", the answer is of course 'no'.

Fundamentally, this is no different than any test that is ever done of anything. Every test is designed to give us useful information; some tests are more useful than others; no test gives you the same information as a full deployment.
edit on 1-7-2012 by Uncinus because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 05:25 PM
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reply to post by The X
 


Acid rain might well do as you describe - have you checked for pollution from industry upwind of you? Oxalic acid is the most common commercial rust remover - it is quite toxic too!
And it also occurs in nature, and in weak solutions is used to clean leather, restoring wood and to kill vero mites on bees!

Various combinations of relatively common materials can also do this - eg Cream of Tartar, baking soda and hydrogen peroxid can be combined into a paste for this task.



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 05:29 PM
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Originally posted by Pilot
reply to post by Uncinus
 


Thank you Uncinus for joining in on my thread - the person of Ken Caldeira in the video is of particular interest to us-you see because he was a very vocal environmentalist/anti-nuke activist in his youth, and is now the recipient of a LIFETIME endowment from Carnegie, a guy like that can surely be trusted by Chemmies who are so paranoid about the ethics of scientists of the establishment variety. I have a keen insight into the paranoid ravings of chemtrailers, so please use my experience as a chemtrail believer to advance your agenda. I extend my hand in friendship, and more!!

I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but your avatar is subliminally erotic. I wish everyone would just agree with us a stop all this delusional mistrust of authority - it's doggone pathological!!

Peace brother!!


Very funny.

I think Ken is one of the good guys though. He's still quite anti-establishment, and is no fan of the government and their lying ways. Here's what he says about some of the crazier chemtrailers who have been threatening to kill him:


I think it is not helpful to think of them as "enemies". I see these people as victims of past government lies and, in many cases, their own mental instability.

These people have been living under a government that has started secret wars, has secretly kidnapped and tortured people, and so on. They have lived under a government that has lied to them repeatedly.

These people have no technical background to distinguish ordinary jet contrails from paranoiac visions of massive government conspiracies. They see jet trails becoming more numerous over the decades and are too innumerate to associate this increase with increase in jet travel.

They have been taught that they cannot trust government statements, they certainly don't trust scientists, and now they are left with no source that they can trust (other than their like-minded fellow conspiracy theorists.)

I prefer to see these ChemTrails folks as victims, both of past government lies and, in many cases I suspect, of some degree of mental illness.

So, let's not look at them as "enemies", but as people who need help.
edit on 1-7-2012 by Uncinus because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 05:32 PM
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reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 


Aloy, you are the master of refutation, I hope to learn much under your expert tutelage and look forward to many more devastating rejoinders at the expense of delusional chemmie blather. But I better stay on topic, are you familiar with Caldeira? He spoke at a small lecture in SF when that arss from "what are they spraying" AMBUSHED him after the Q &A that rude, mean man really showed his colors!!



I think this has been uploaded on another thread, but it is important as it really does reveal the insanity of these people!

fast forward to 1:19:22 to see chem-treachery in action!! Villainous dogs!!
edit on 1-7-2012 by Pilot because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 05:37 PM
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reply to post by Pilot
 


I am not all that familiar with Caldiera - Uncinus probably does better.

But I do note the dishonesty in the YT video title - it says "Top geoengineer admits chemtrailing...", but the accompanying text says:


In the last 10 minutes, geoengineer Ken Calderia is confronted with evidence of toxic spraying by congressional candidate John Fitzgerald. Calderia refuses to answer and hurries away.


a refusal to answer is not actually an admission of anything!



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 05:43 PM
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reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 

Exactly!

If you see it for yourself you will have a perfect demonstration of mental illness in action!! As Uncinus pointed out in his Caldeira quote-we need to help them, not hate!



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 05:48 PM
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reply to post by Pilot
 


Personally I would hesitate from use the label "mental illness" from all but the most violent chemtrail activists - particularly those who send in death threats. I don't think someone is mentally ill just for believing in a particular theory, especially if they are not in full possession of the facts.



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 06:10 PM
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reply to post by Uncinus
 


You don't think that John Fitzgerald character is dangerous? Running for office? Possibly winning? Dude. He doesn't seem mentally ill, but he could be charismatic enough to sway public opinion away from the truth we are all working so hard to reveal and establish, obliterating any vestige of doubt that the authorities really are telling the truth this time. A few loonies on ats don't amount to a whole lot, but activism in the street and public forums across the country in towns and cities is another matter. I have to admit Fitzgerald is super hot though.

He was very rude to our man Caldeira.
edit on 1-7-2012 by Pilot because: add



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 06:12 PM
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reply to post by Pilot
 


John fitzgerald seems unlikely to ever get elected to office - there's a thread about him at metabunk
edit on 1-7-2012 by Aloysius the Gaul because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 06:50 PM
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reply to post by Uncinus
 


may we have a link to what very well could be BS?
sounds like your establishment scientist is the violent one [slander,calumny and provacation]

and i'd better see proof of death threats


why don't we invite some deranged raving and drooling paranoiacs for balance?
otherwise this thread is just a circle jerk for government fellatists y'know





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