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Best Country for American Political Refugees?

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posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 12:39 PM
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Due to recent political and governmental actions, I and my family have seriously considered leaving this rotten corrupt hole. We are just fed up, nothing will ever change for the better. And corruption is running so rampant that there's no way to stop it. We are at the point of no return, and people don't seem to see that.

I have been pretty active in politics. Trying to change things from the ground up, grass roots style, but even at a local level its just getting to be too much. Its always 3 steps forward and 4 steps back. I try to educate people that are interested, and inform them on subjects that effect them personally. But, those feelings of disdain only last as long as the conversation. People just don't see the big picture, and understand that if we don't change NOW, we are forever and the hands of a botched over-reaching Federal Government and state governments that are pretty much indebted to it.

Due to the anger and damn near contempt I've started feel for the American Government, I just want out. I understand that most other countries have corruption issues and most don't allow some of the rights we are slowly getting stripped of, but there has got to be somewhere better.

Understand, I love my Country, and the people that form it. But I can no longer deal with the people supposedly running it. They have no insight into the world they are creating for us and our future generations. At least not on the average citizen level. They see dollar signs and are creating a class warfare. This isn't what I had intended for my children, and I feel outright guilt for handing them this. I've exhausted my soul trying to fix things the best I know how, so I could at least tell them I tried, but that doesn't make it better.

I just want better opportunities for my children, and their children and so forth. And its becoming clearer with each day, that America wont have those opportunities before long. So, I ask the ATS community, where should we go? Canada? Iceland? Newfoundland? Where?

ETA: Other posters have already taken the reigns on this, but, if you are from another country or have lived in another country, could you provide me with a run down on basic life there. The average sentiment of citizens and where YOU see your country as compared to America. Pros and cons would be appreciated. Dont just sell me on it, let me know what problems YOU see with it. Thanks again for the input, this is a serious questioned posed to the ATS community and I think ATS may be the only place to get true input.

Mods: Feel free to move to appropriate forum
edit on 1-7-2012 by Chickensalad because: note for mods

edit on 1-7-2012 by Chickensalad because: (no reason given)




posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 12:42 PM
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Since it sounds like you are a republican or "libertarian" you should look into the Middle East or Africa, where the people might share your values.




They see dollar signs and are creating a class warfare


That's being done by business and the wealthy using government- you have it backwards.



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 12:46 PM
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reply to post by Chickensalad
 


It is the plan of the NWO to take global control, so I really don't think you would be safe anywhere!! You might buy yourself some time..............but they will come after you sooner or later!



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 12:53 PM
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reply to post by CB328
 


Are you kidding me? That exaclty what we are turning into.

And all conspiracies aside, this is a true and very real concern of mine. I cant prove there is a "they" or that their reach is global, but I can prove that the US Government is corrupt, and is slowly, and precisly taking away all that we once stood for. We the People are suppose to be able to make the changes we feel are right for our country. Can you honestly tell me the last time We the People actually made such a change.

This isn't the same country I was told I was born into. I grew up and the veil lifted.
This isn't the same country I told my children they were born into. I thought I could change that. No more.



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 12:59 PM
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Can you tell us what exactly you are looking for, what you value and don't?

Because I can't grasp that from your post- only that you feel the current state doesn't represent what you want... the most current events are the passing of the Obama care thing, which would suggest you are against such socialized type of programs?
Because just saying it is not what the people want is incorrect- it is not what part fo the population wants!
I have relatives in the US who WANTED that, passionately, and are celebratign that "finally the government is listening to the people" .
So it is relative.



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 01:00 PM
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reply to post by CB328
 


And no, if you must label my moral and political ideals, Im more of a centrist than anything. But way to assume you know me based off one post you read of mine. Thats part of the problem here, we are divided on all the small issues and dont even realize that most of us are basically like minded on the "real" issues. We want freedom, true and just freedom. Do we not? But, that argument will be picked apart until we are arguing about non-issues, that most likely wont even effect us personally. Its a never ending loop that will never get us anywhere in the advancement of freedoms.

So, label me if you must, but it doesn't change what I know and what I feel.



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 01:00 PM
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You do realize Newfoundland is in Canada right?
Personally as a Canadian I'd say come here, it's a great place to live however, if you want to be as far away as possible from any potential fallout, we are sort of joined at the hip, US and Canada, I'd suggest perhaps New Zealand.



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 01:03 PM
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reply to post by Chickensalad
 


Well, list what things are important to you and I will try to help. Frankly, if you are going to have a hard time if you are looking for a country that is less "liberal" than the U.S.. Pretty much every developed country is far more Liberal than the U.S. has ever been. If you are looking for a higher standard of living you should consider Europe, specifically, the northern European states. If you are just looking to make your dollar stretch further you can consider latin america, however if you are accustomed to first world living then you may find it a hard adjustment at first.



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 01:09 PM
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reply to post by Bluesma
 


Again, its not the small issues here. Its the large and very obvious picture Im referring to. The whole system is broken and taken advantage of. Not just by politicians but by almost everyone in it. Citizens are abusing it, governments are abusing it, and as long as there is something to gain from it, they will continue. Tearing this country apart bit by bit.

Lets say that the system represents a small child. The child needs disciplined when out of line. But, as the child grew up, it was just too cute to discipline. Now, after some years of being a spoiled brat and no discipline, its growing up to be an adult, and still spoiled and selfish. But, it cant always have exactly what it wants and cant deal with that, so now it begins to take it out on the people around it.Throwing a temper tantrum, and bringing down this great country and the people with it. Not too mention other nations. Once, the child becomes a full adult there will be no turning back, it is what it is. Just aging. Taking what it wants and it declines in health to slowly die.
edit on 1-7-2012 by Chickensalad because: spelling



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 01:25 PM
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you can always rejoin the british state, we offer no chance of owning a gun unless you are landed gentry shooting grouse, house prices in towns that will make you double check the dollar to pound exchange rate, socialist health care where you wont have to pay a single groat into it but they'll tell you what you can have out of it

But it does have some advantages we're seen as more brainy than the Americans by virtue of our accents and we brew beer to actually put flavour into it not try and turn it into water and you only need to be 5 years old to start drinking (at home) and we dont spend 100's of millions on a head of state every few years
as we've been spreading the cost out over the last few centuries so now it costs each of us 70p or about 45 cents a year and they aint allowed to mess up the laws



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 01:28 PM
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reply to post by Chickensalad
 


I guess that metaphor is not clear for me to interpret- I am sorry!

I can offer you that France is a nice to place to live. I am originally American and have lived here for 20 years.
But it does have socialized medicine ( the best quality care in the world). There are no homeless people, except those who choose to be so for personal reasons. A base quality of life is pretty much guaranteed for all- including immigrants, whether they are legal (with papers) or not.

Since the revolution, the people have held tightly the idea that the government is their servant, and keep the controls.

There is some sentiment arising the last few years that the people, despite their power, are now being abused by the immigrants who take advantage of this. In my opinion, this groan starts to come way past the level the US has experienced... the idea of what abuse is differs. So if you have had any discomfort with such things, it would be ten fold here. You woud have to get used to seeing a muslim man driving a new mercedes you paid for- while he is unemployed and getting an income larger than yours based on how many children he is able to father (with his many wives he adds each year from the village back home).

You would also have to get used to constant protests going on which are geared to make your life hell. Often the streets are blocked, the trains are not running, trucks are not delivering, gas is not available, schools are closed, for days at a time. You will be met with much shock and repulsion if you ever complain about this, as you are supposed to be supportive, no matter what the subject of their disrest is, and how it effects your life.

But you may have a very nice life anyway, have no debts, and be able to interact in politics fairly easily. Kids can get a good education when the teachers are not on strike.There are a lot of benefits.

But in any case, learning the language is probably key to your happiness and ability to integrate the community wherever you go. If you know some latin based language like spanish, then Spain, Italy or France will be easier to learn. The northern countries like Sweden and Holland are excellent places to live too (I have many dutch friends) but their language seems terribly hard for us anglo-saxons to learn!!!

But you know, there is the financial situation to consider too.....
I recently spent the weekend with a friend who is very powerful in the banking industry, and she told me the people had no idea how close we came to a catastrophy of "total global economic collapse"... she said we are not out of the forest yet either. I don't know if it is a good time to start moving around at all.... probably nowhere is safe!



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 01:54 PM
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Every place has its ups and downs. This is such a personal thing, there are no top 3 countries to flee to.
I think you need to study the governments of other countries (since that seems to be the thorn in your side here) and find some that are more aligned with your way of thinking. And then decide from there, based on employment, laws, social issues, weather, etc.

That's what I would do, anyway.



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 02:09 PM
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Anywhere you may run has capitulated or will probably soon be a warzone.

Why jump willingly from the frying pan into the fire?

So you love your country enough to leave, but not enough to stay and fight? Not sure that I understand the rationale...

I do understand and appreciate the desire, but fail to see the logic in following through.

The day may seem bleak, but so few of us have actually been there. Most Americans do not have an accurate assessment of bleak. Is it really that bad, or are you just now getting pissed off? (not trying to condescend, just curious.)

I live in an area plagued by crime and flight, where people run at the first sign of trouble. Entire neighborhoods evacuated. Cant help but notice these areas would be thriving today if people would simply stand thier ground.

Congrats on your disillusionment.
It's not just a theory.



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 02:22 PM
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Thanks for all the input so far. I appreciate you guys taking the time to post. And especially appreciate not being ridiculed for my thread.



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 03:33 PM
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What are your desires/requirements for a country to suit your political and ideological needs? Free markets? Free health care? Nice weather? Attractive women?

You will need to give some specifics of what you are looking for so we can narrow down a suitable environment.



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 03:38 PM
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Originally posted by Chickensalad


This isn't the same country I was told I was born into. I grew up and the veil lifted.


Then it IS the same country. You have just lost your illusions. Which is a good thing!

Work to change your own world. There is no escaping corruption or stupidity until you exorcise it from your own life.



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 03:45 PM
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reply to post by Chickensalad
 






not being ridiculed for my thread


Have you ever thought about moving to Narnia



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 04:20 PM
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Well those who plan on leaving have a lot in common with Iran methinks.



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 04:28 PM
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reply to post by Chickensalad
 
OP, you're not alone. I've gotten disgusted with American politics and the laws that have come down. And as much as I think about it, I'll stay and fight the system.

Because really, America is rather unique.



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 05:47 PM
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Originally posted by beezzer
Because really, America is rather unique.


Beezer is right about that.
We're the only industrialized nation without socialized health care.
We're one of the few industrialized nations that require you to pay to go to college.
Our military is the most expensive military on the planet.

You haven't given any clarification on what your ideal country is...just that you don't like corruption.
If you want more economic freedom then Australia is where you want to go.
If you want no taxes then you want to live in Qatar or Brunei.
If you want to avoid socialized medicine then you want to stay in the US or go to Africa or Asia. Nearly every other nation has some form of socialized medicine.

Tell us what you want and we can help you. If you just want a better standard of living then you can pick any northern European country.
Your children will have some of the best education without fear of a lifetime of debt.
You'll never have to worry about health costs.
You'll have guaranteed vacation time no matter what job you have.
You'll have job security.
You'll have more than two options for your representative in national and local government.

Or you can stay here and keep arguing with people.



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