It is time for the US to grant the Japanese people shelter

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posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 08:49 AM
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reply to post by tamusan
 


No I know my comment was a bit shallow... and trust me buffalo has a huge Asiatic immigrant community, mostly Burmese and Filipino so I have no illusion of asian women all being beautiful. It was a joke and in poor taste.
edit on 2-7-2012 by conspiracyrus because: edit




posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 11:22 AM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 



Let me educate you a little bit about Japan and WWII. The ENTIRE COUNTRY was a war machine. Right down to the 6 year old kindergardeners who went to school in the morning and then worked in bullet factories in the afternoon. The entire 'civilian population' was involved with the war effort. And no .. they wouldn't surrender.


Yes they were and so was the US at the time...because well...they were at war.

And it is simply untrue and a horrible fallacy to assert as FACT that every child was working in some factory making bullets and artillery shells. Factory work at the time of the Firebombing of Tokyo was at an all time low because of the oil embargo imposed by the US. This is also why their Navy and Air Force could not recover


Wrong. They started a war of aggression against the USA and they wouldn't stop. In order to save American lives .. which are far more important to us than the lives of the enemy trying to kill us ... we had every right to bring the war to an end as soon as possible. To let the war drag out and for more Americans to die simply because some YUTZ wouldn't use a nuclear weapon on the Japanese war machine .. THAT would have been an inappropriate thing to do.


Yes they were the aggressors at Pearl Harbor and save a few other attempts at attacking the US (i.e fire balloons and a couple destroyer attacks in Washington State, which were all terrible failures). However after pearl harbor they stood NO chance against a superior force (i.e. the US) not to mention their failing campaigns in China and Korea. They were fighting on multiple fronts and stretched thin.

They had LOST the war when their Navy was defeated, but due to Japanese pride which historically is very big part of the culture prevented them from surrendering, because they would look weak. However (as I basically said in my last post) the people were apathetic and tired of war, again no reason to NUKE a mostly civilian population with limited production capabilities.

The weapon should have never been used, that's why it has not not been used by ANY military in ANY military action since. Just because apologists claim that it was a good move does not make it one, so stop asserting absolute certainty on the situation. History by in large disagrees with you.



posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 11:52 AM
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reply to post by CynicalWabbit
 


Send us your weak, your blah blah blah... Yes. Feel free to spread out. There's lots of room. Remember, it's the human thing to do.

And hey, who said anything about half? Are you opposed to lending your couch to a friend in need? It's not a solution. It's an alleviation of current situation so a solution can be found.
edit on 2/7/2012 by CrikeyMagnet because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 12:10 PM
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reply to post by RoyalBlue
 

out of all the info i posted that's all you can latch your unsubstantiated argument + a tearjerking emotional[irrational] appeal on?
educate myself indeed

here's another couple of links [though i'm sure nobody will bother to read them]

educate-yourself.org...


Here is a link to a Tokyo radiation monitoring site located in the Shinjuku area. Note that the highest reading occurred briefly on March 15, but quickly returned to near- normal levels for every day since. This chart covers up to March 19, but you can access the latest chart by visiting the link.

monitoring.tokyo-eiken.go.jp...



posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 12:27 PM
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reply to post by Openeye
 

Very well-stated, on many points! How dare a military attack someone else's military base (i.e. Pearl Harbor) during a time of war? What an atrocity! What a justification for annihilating and sickening thousands of civilians for such a bold act! I know, lots of sarcasm meant. Seriously, I really love the point you made that no military has used this since, for good reason. And I have to wonder the total amount of radioactive contamination and waste that has been spread around our world to this day to support(or defend against) this one huge atrocious and ill-conceived move by the US military. All the leaking, old nuclear plants are here today because they were shoved down society's throats (sold as cheap energy) just to have a means to support military weapon-based nuclear use. And all the nuclear testing that went on after the attack on Japan, especially by the US and Russia during the cold war? Would that have happened to the extreme if the world weren't fearing what happened in Japan? Who knows, and there is plenty of blame to spread around many countries for atrocities committed in past history. But I still wonder, for those that "support" what the US did in Japan. Was it really, truly worth it? Or are there consequences that everyone around the world is still suffering today, outside the scope of the immediate action-consequence from decades before?



posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 01:26 PM
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reply to post by RoyalBlue
 


Thanks for the compliment.

But I disagree that nuclear power was shoved down societies throats, the amount of propaganda about radiation and contamination is wide spread and supported mostly by the coal and oil industries. Nuclear power was probably the best thing to come out of the study of atomic energy, and is much cleaner than say coal burning. We just need to get progressively better at containing nuclear waste, until we have a true all purpose clean energy product. We really don't have anything like that, save solar power which is still in its early stages.

I think most people believe that the bombings in japan were justified by the fact that they attacked pearl harbor, the first real attack on the United States by a foreign power in decades. While pearl harbor was a military target, it was still an preemptive attack perpetrated out of arrogance. Nationalists always bite off more than they can chew. Also times were different then, the way wars were fought was different. Due to the leap in technology and tactics, large amounts of civilian casualties were seemingly ignored or expected.

There is also the argument that a land invasion of Japan would be to costly an initiative, in both resources and man power. Many point to the fact that thousands of Purple Hearts were made in preparation for the invasion. But this is besides the point. The Japanese leadership was already considering surrender even before the firebombing of Tokyo, and shortly before that Russia had also declared war on Japan (albeit they might have done this to simply invade Korea) however they would have also supported the US in the invasion of mainland Japan if it had come to that. The Russians had always been a rival to the Japanese.

Facing an invasion from the Pacific and the Korean peninsula, they would have had no choice but to surrender. Russia's armor would have been to much for them to handle, not to mention the air power by the US. They were trumped on all sides Air, Sea, and Ground.

The bomb was dropped as a message to the world, that the US was now a superpower. I do not believe that there were evil/nefarious intentions behind the move, it was strictly a military and political maneuver that ANY nation who had the capability at the time would have utilized post haste.

But that does not mean that the act was not immoral or not to be considered genocide...it was and again the vast majority of those in the political sphere and those who developed the weapon regretted it. That IS a fact.
edit on 2-7-2012 by Openeye because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 02:05 PM
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reply to post by Openeye
 

I would have to respectfully disagree that nuclear power is the cleanest of all energy. I'm not a supporter of Big oil or coal, but the main problem I have with nuclear is the fact that even though our world population grows, we still continue, through intents or mishaps, contaminate land that becomes uninhabitable for tens, hundreds, or thousands of years. We have a finite amount of land on one planet to currently survive, grow food, yet as our world population grows, we continue to take away acres and acres of land because they become too contaminated to live on or grow food on. We currently have no way, and is too costly, to clean those sites up. Yes oil and coal contaminate the environment, but we artificially create radioactive waste that will last "thousands of years"? That's where I have a HUGE problem. Oil and Coal can be broken down and cleaned (though not as well as we like), but radioactive contamination cannot. We have untold enormous amounts of radioactive waste "temporarily" stored around the world that nobody has any idea on how to deal with, and the amounts continue to grow everyday. Thirty, forty, fifty years ago they didn't worry about it, they thought someone would eventually figure it out. Well, guess what, nobody has, and now our generation and generations to come have to deal with it.

I guess what I am saying is that my hugest problem with nuclear energy is that we are creating artificial radioactivity that can not be handled, cleaned or left on its own, for thousands of years, yet can kill us in minutes without warning or awareness that we are even near it. My mind has a hard time wrapping around that concept, and that we do this to ourselves.
edit on 2-7-2012 by RoyalBlue because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 02:33 PM
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reply to post by RoyalBlue
 


What you say is true and I cannot defend the Nuclear Power industry completely. But the good news is that we are moving away from that technology, the unfortunate truth is that the waste we have is here to stay and the power plants we have are vastly integrated into society, making it impossible to just quit using it (at least for the next 100 years). We would be forced to use more coal and oil which again has a more immediate and harmful effect on the environment.

For now contamination is low and the adverse effects remote. This may very well change as time goes on, but we are talking multiple generations from now. And by then technology will be much more advanced (unless of course there is some form of global catastrophe which sets mankind back hundreds of years).



posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 05:12 PM
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side note ... when living in Japan I was kind of amazed at how much the Japanese people HATED the Korean people. They were like a sub-human race or something. I don't know if all Japanese felt that way .. but a whole lot did.


Trust me, I have a few South Korean friends, and if you allow them to steer in that direction, they will rant about how much they hate the Japanese, and what thieves and cowards they are.

There is a distinct triangle of mutual hate between Korea, Japan, and China- each of the members really despises the other two.

It is something like the England - France relationship, but somehow it goes much deeper.

edit on 2-7-2012 by joeraynor because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 05:16 PM
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reply to post by joeraynor
 


Korea, Japan, and China-interesting they ALL BANDED TOGETHER for the 250,000 man march on TOKYO.
or did u hear?



posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 07:33 PM
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Originally posted by CrikeyMagnet
A great deal of what's wrong with the world today shows up in this post. Some of you people are simply horrible people. Get over your real, or imagined slights. Forgive the "debt" owed to you by the descendents of people you imprisoned for not being the same as you. It was 60 years ago. Drop it.

The thing that should concern you, but amazingly doesn't is that millions on people are sitting on a powderkeg, and you're arguing about whether you should give them a bit of room to run for their lives. Your pride in being isolationist and (yes) racist is astounding and disgusting. Get off your high horse. Offer them a solution. Prove that some shred of humanity is in that shell.

It's not tough, and frankly, you were never using Montana anyway.

If it's a problem of being able to support the influx of people... Suck it up, Princess! No one is saying you have to take the entire population of Japan... But offering help to those in need is something basically human. We're not thinking of impact beyond the saving of as many lives as can be saved. I guarantee, the surviving Japanese will be grateful to their benefactors for the assistance.

Also, no one said that Japan would need to be abandoned forever. At least they could have a bit more time to deal with the issues, without... You know... Dying out slowly of myriad cancers.
edit on 2/7/2012 by CrikeyMagnet because: (no reason given)


Where were you when Chernobyl hit?



posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 08:42 PM
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I don't have any history on this site. I would love it if someone were to tell me they were full of poo.
USA may not be the safest place to be either...

"In a developing story that is raising concerns over a potential nuclear cover-up by the EPA, alarming amounts of radiation were reported near the border of Indiana and Michigan and later censored by the EPA online geiger tool. "~ Natural Society

Read more: naturalsociety.com...



posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 08:53 PM
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Originally posted by joeraynor

-The Japanese people have one of the lowest incarceration rates, and exceptionally low violent crime rates. They are VERY WELL BEHAVED.
-The Japanese are among the very best educated in the entire industrial world
-The Japanese as a whole decline in population over time, so they do not add to uncontrollable population expansion.
-After the US, the Japanese are the most productive citizens, roughly equivalent to the Germans.
-The Japanese produce mountains of art and music if left to their own devices
The Japanese would be happy to learn to speak Engrish without even being asked. There is enough food in the US to feed a very large chunk of the world, if it is used properly, so another 130 million can easily be supported. Unemployment would not be an issue either, because the Japanese would make jobs merely by virtue of their skills and existing institutions, which would simply need a new infrastructure. The Japanese would not have to worry about their stuff getting frazzled like every five years by earthquakes, tsunamis, or godzilla.
They can make our iJunk, and teach at our universities, and show us how to make food that doesn't make us fat.

In an oversimplified manner of speaking, the Japanese attacked the US because they wanted to be like the US. They are a gifted people, but highly constrained by their lack of space or resources, and constantly being bookended by China and Russia, and thus unable to expand. The Japanese are FRUSTRATED by this. It shows in their culture (what do you think all those giant fighting robot shows are about?) Why not give them the chance to transcend their geographic limitations, and merge with what they envied in the past?



SMH Joeraynor....I'm glad you have so many "positive" sterotypical views about the Japanese and their culture, but you're making an awful lot of racist assumptions here my friend. Do you know about Yakuza and some of the other insanely brutal, and extremely ruthless, Japanese/Asian organized crime syndicates? Just something to consider to balance your views about the "VERY WELL BEHAVED," as you put it, Japanese and their low violent crime rates.

Saying they'd be "happy to learn to speak Engrish without even being asked," while being humorous on some level, is a little over-the-top and extremely presumptuous on your part. Assuming that they'd even want to come to the US, and abandon their home-land, would be an obscenely offensive suggestion to most Japanese. I think many would rather go down with the ship, if you will. Rather amusing you say that they would produce "mountains of art and music if left to their own devices" almost as if to say that other races/nationalities would be incapable of such accomplishments.

Then you proceed to stick a red-hot poker in their eye and insult them by saying that they only attacked Pearl Harbor because they wanted to be just like the USA and are frustrated by their lack of space and resources? At that time, Japan was an imperialistic nation that invaded and actively occupied Korea, systematically destroying it's culture and taking it's resources. The Japanese were intoxicated with their own brand of imperialistic nationalism and attacked Pearl Harbor because they had similar designs for the US. I'll stop there and finish up by saying that you've got some interesting ideas about Japan, it's history and it's culture. Too many Godzilla movies I'm afraid Hahaha!



posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 10:17 PM
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Originally posted by kaoticf8
Im pretty sure the majority of japanese would rather die than go to the US, they have to much pride, honor and tradition.



Tell that to the thousands taking over parts of my neighborhood (queens, NY) . They are not so dishonored to open sushi restaurants on every block.

I don't mind having them here but your fooling yourself if you don't think many people of the world want citizenship in the usa.

Come visit queens where you will hardly find English speaking people.



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 12:42 AM
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Originally posted by bowtomonkey

Where were you when Chernobyl hit?


Not sure the relevance, but... When I heard of it, I wss living in Nova Scotia (an area called Shannon Park in Dartmouth, for any Easterners out there), and was off on another epic forest journey (likely to the Oceanographic thingy off through those trees. I went there a lot.)

I was with one of the kids of my parents military/biker friends, and some other kids were talking about it. I remember imagining reindeer on fire. (and some months down the road, imagining reindeer with extra parts.)

I tended to watch sciency shows, like Nova, and... Oddly, I find it hard to remember the current shows of 26 years ago. The Nature of Things? Was that around back then? So it became one of the things I tried to learn more about, partly because the burning animals image was a bit burned into my mind.



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 02:48 AM
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I really like Japan and the culture is very unique, however 5+ years of Japan can make you detest their political system to the very end. It's quite socialist and the people there are much like ants. But then again, aren't we all? The reactor thing has been problematic and the BBS continue to be flooded with conspiracies and other BS that's may or may not be going on (or has happened). The public opinion about their government worsens and it's becoming just as bad as in the states where there are outcries that the government isn't out to protect its people, but rather in it for their own wallet.

Interestingly enough, in Japan when you do something bad, like if you are responsible for the bankruptcy of a company, you bow in shame and that's your apology. Afterwards, you are forgiven. Commit a crime as a political leader? Bow and get forgiven. But this concept of forgiveness is starting to irritate at least some in Japan and I know quite a few who still live there that are angry about the whole 福島第一原子力発電所事故 (fukushima daiichi nuclear disaster) thing.

Now the question is, are they going to have to evacuate? If so, where are they going to go? Nippon is strongly against South Korea and China, but their ties with Canada are strong and even though they have some disputes with the US (politically right now), it seems like a likely possibility. However! How the heck do you emigrate 130 million Japanese citizens? How much will this cost? Who would run it? How long would it take? Is there enough transportation services to allow this? Who gets to go? Will this cause new racism? What will happen to the job market? Will this trigger a new world order? Will this trigger a war of some kind?

There are so many questions, and at the moment you can't trust a word of what the Japanese (or any government for that matter) says about this. It was lies added onto more lies, so how can you trust a liar? My sympathies go out to Japanese residents, more-so because I personally know a few whom have lost their homes and legacy in this disaster.



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 03:34 AM
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Originally posted by CrikeyMagnet

Originally posted by bowtomonkey

Where were you when Chernobyl hit?


Not sure the relevance, but... When I heard of it, I wss living in Nova Scotia (an area called Shannon Park in Dartmouth, for any Easterners out there), and was off on another epic forest journey (likely to the Oceanographic thingy off through those trees. I went there a lot.)

I was with one of the kids of my parents military/biker friends, and some other kids were talking about it. I remember imagining reindeer on fire. (and some months down the road, imagining reindeer with extra parts.)

I tended to watch sciency shows, like Nova, and... Oddly, I find it hard to remember the current shows of 26 years ago. The Nature of Things? Was that around back then? So it became one of the things I tried to learn more about, partly because the burning animals image was a bit burned into my mind.


The point I was making is very obvious. People are all about supporting human values when there is something in it for them, but if the inhabitants of say... Haiti needed a new home... you won't hear a sound.

To add, I don't think anyone would be offering Japan a hand if it came down to it. This is just a non-racial way to exalt one stereotype above other migrant groups that aren't doing so well.



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 04:32 AM
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If they come to the US they will need to acclimate to a dry climate,possibly desert areas as well.



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 05:07 AM
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However! How the heck do you emigrate 130 million Japanese citizens?


There really isn't any way to do it in the space of months even.

What I would think would need to be done... they would have to move them all to camps in Russia and South Korea (The Japanese would HATE this, but they would get over it), and then over the course of many months, and likely years, they would have to recomission every major sea-going vessel in the pacific (primarily cruise-ships and the like, which carry 3000-9000 each ), and disperse them to their final destinations, which would likely be Russia, Canada, Australia, and the US.

You are looking at 15,000- 20,000 trans-pacific trips by major vessels if the entire country must be moved. It is the project of years.



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 05:14 AM
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OP you gotta be out your goddamn mind.

Why should we put the burden on ourselves to try and help these people? We have to worry about our own citizens first. We really aren't in a position to be playing hero to the people of the world. Our country and people are what should be the number one priority right now. It's what will help to make our nation strong again. We have plenty of our own problems to deal with, we can worry about others later.

If other countries like russia want to take that burden upon themselves then so be it. It's a cruel cold world. We must worry about ourselves first. It's just like how the US sat out most of WW2 until the end. After Europe was in shambles we were there to lend our help and resources to rebuild the place. That type of calculated thinking and prudence is part of the reason why our country became so rich and powerful.

In an ideal world, yes it would be nice to loan the Japanese people some of our land in the meantime etc, I can see you have good intentions, but it's just not practical and it's just not the reality of life.

Yes it is Machiavellian, but it is necessary in a harsh world. If you think other nations aren't out there plotting and calculating in the same way then you are living in a fantasy.
edit on 7/3/2012 by thehumbleone because: (no reason given)
edit on 7/3/2012 by thehumbleone because: (no reason given)





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