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Philosophy of god, science, and nothing

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posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 12:01 PM
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Originally posted by spy66
reply to post by ImaFungi
 



-No matter how many universes there are. They must all come from one source initially. They must when you have a dimension of space that is infinite.




can there be multiple infinite dimensions of space?

can there be infinite dimensions of infinite space?


with the computer analogy and my fish in the sea analogy,,, i was only pointing out that being inside what massive body of universe we are attempting at describing,,,, we really have no idea if there are things much larger then the seemingly "infinite" space of the universe......




posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 12:02 PM
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reply to post by ImaFungi
 


Awareness is constant throughout each and every experience including deep sleep. When you wake in the morning you know if you had a good nights sleep, you know if you got enough no thingness. The no thingness of deep sleep is what we love the most because it is total absence of things, including the person we 'think' we are.
Awareness is present throughout the sleeping state, if it were not why set an alarm to wake up.
You are awareness believing you are a person. The person is just dream stuff, the real you is what is there throughout always present.



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 12:07 PM
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Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by ImaFungi
 


"Awareness is constant throughout each and every experience including deep sleep. "

is it suppose to be funny that your definition of awareness is the opposite of the definition of awareness?

our consciousness hates not being aware soooo much,,,, that during deep sleep we dream,,,,,



also you are using the word experience,,,, signifying that there needs to be an experiencer for awareness,,, and we know experiencers as material,, mechanical, entities..
edit on 3-7-2012 by ImaFungi because: (no reason given)

edit on 3-7-2012 by ImaFungi because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 12:10 PM
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reply to post by ImaFungi
 


How do you suppose we cut up space? Space does not move out the way because there is a something there. The cinema screen does not move out of the way when an image appears.



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 12:14 PM
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reply to post by ImaFungi
 


Experience is a conscious thing. Consciousness comes and goes.
Consciousness is when there is a knowing that I am. 'I am' equals consciousness. 'I' equals pure awareness with nothing added.
In deep sleep there is nothing known. Nothing is being known.


edit on 3-7-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 12:20 PM
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Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by ImaFungi
 


How do you suppose we cut up space? Space does not move out the way because there is a something there. The cinema screen does not move out of the way when an image appears.


what do you mean by cut up space?

does space exist physically enough for it to be "moved out of the way"?

is space anything at all?

is space if anything or nothing, moveable?



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 12:22 PM
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Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by ImaFungi
 


"Experience is a conscious thing. Consciousness comes and goes.
Consciousness is when there is a knowing that I am. 'I am' equals consciousness. "

ok i got that part,,, we agree,,,


" 'I' equals pure awareness with nothing added."

for you......"I" only exists,, because you are what you are,, and you have the ability of consciousness,,,,, I asked for your deffinition of awareness,,, because i dont want to play semantics with you,,,, are you trying to understand what you are talking about? can you help me understand what you are talking about?


"In deep sleep there is nothing known. Nothing is being known. "

ok?

edit on 3-7-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

edit on 3-7-2012 by ImaFungi because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 12:27 PM
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reply to post by ImaFungi
 


You are conscious, you do not have the ability to be conscious, you ARE regardless of anything!
When you are in deep sleep you are not conscious. Deep sleep is not a choice and waking up is not a choice.
It happens. Are you aware of this?



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 12:32 PM
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reply to post by ImaFungi
 






can there be multiple infinite dimensions of space?


No there can only be a finite number of physical dimensions of space. Only 1 can be a true physical infinite. Because all the other physical dimensions need a space to be a physical dimension in.





can there be infinite dimensions of infinite space?


No. There can only be one dimension of infinite space. All others must be finite.





with the computer analogy and my fish in the sea analogy,,, i was only pointing out that being inside what massive body of universe we are attempting at describing,,,, we really have no idea if there are things much larger then the seemingly "infinite" space of the universe......


Correct to a point. Our universe is a finite if it is changing. The infinite is a stationary dimension that cant change. It is a true constant. A true constant will never change unless it wants to.



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 12:35 PM
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Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by ImaFungi
 


You are conscious, you do not have the ability to be conscious, you ARE regardless of anything!
When you are in deep sleep you are not conscious. Deep sleep is not a choice and waking up is not a choice.
It happens. Are you aware of this?


im aware of this,,,, only because aware is another word for conscious... in less you give me your definition i see no difference in meanings.



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 12:40 PM
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reply to post by ImaFungi
 


I say pure awareness but i have heard it called the absolute.
In this video Stephen Wolinsky explains the difference between consciousness and what he refers to as the absolute but is what i am pointing to.
youtu.be...



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 12:45 PM
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reply to post by spy66
 


"The infinite is a stationary dimension that cant change. It is a true constant."

ok i understand what your saying,, and i have this whole time,,,,, I guess I just cant imagine why, how and where never ending space exists,.,.

would you agree that there can be a number of finite universes like ours in the infinite space,,,,, say if the universes were 99999999999999999^999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 light years away from the edge of ours,,,,,,, meaning an infinite directions of up down, left right,,, little more right, micrometer more right,, micro meter more right..... from our perspective,,, that micrometer in terms of where the universe would actually be would be light years distance,,,, as from our perspective we perceive the distance of our thumb and look out and see stars that match up with our thumb yet are light years apart..........



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 12:46 PM
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reply to post by ImaFungi
 


Anywhere consciousness is there will be something appearing. Consciousness makes things appear.
The graphics on a consol appear because your character is there, where was the scene before you went to the enviroment that is appearing on the screen?
edit on 3-7-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 12:50 PM
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edit on 3-7-2012 by ImaFungi because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 12:51 PM
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Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by ImaFungi
 


I say pure awareness but i have heard it called the absolute.
In this video Stephen Wolinsky explains the difference between consciousness and what he refers to as the absolute but is what i am pointing to.
youtu.be...




you only know the concept of pure awareness via your experience of consciousness,,,,, when you are conscious you are aware,,,,, since you have been conscious your whole life,,,, you are conscious that you can be conscious or that consciousness can exist,,,,,, or,,,,, you are conscious that you are aware and that awareness can exist......

that guy is only talking about a way of being,,,,,,, of dealing with being alive on earth,,,,, its better/easier/nicer feeling to exist as a pure awareness.,..,.,., then to have your mind full of words, and labels,, and maths,,, and physics,,, and tv,,,, and thoughts.......

this awareness,,,, is consciousness,,,,, and is produced by your mind....



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 12:52 PM
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reply to post by ImaFungi
 


Ok thanks for that.



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 12:58 PM
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Originally posted by jiggerj


Anyhow, I wish there were a way to keep a conversation like this from escalating into metaphors and vague analogies, to stick with the physical question of how can something come from nothing. How can real, verifiable energy come from an unverifiable, dormant state of nothingness. I say it can't.


Well, the first question we have to ask is "is energy real"? What is "real", anyway?

In our current 3 dimensional reality, could what we call "energy" exist in a single dimensional point? Especially if energy and mass are interchangable?

Regardless, there is no such thing as "nothingness". 1 cannot exist with Other. It is as fundamental as it gets in esoteric thought. Light can only exist if there is darkness too. The yin and the yang. WIthout darkness you have no reason to differentiate what light is. 1 cannot exist without Other.




I say that no matter how the brilliant minds of physics came to the conclusion of nothing before the Big Bang, a physical state of absolute nothing has never been and can't ever be.


You are right. But a mathematical state of nothingness can exist quite easily. If you have infinite "+" along with infinite "-", then you have a net of "nothing". They cancel each other out. This is a whole other part of the conversation that the ancient philosophers grappled with, and is why we have terms like "real numbers" and "irrational numbers". Mathematics is a philosophical concept, not a universal truth.




As for Time, I say there HAD to have been one second before the Big Bang. And if there was one second, then there had to be two seconds, three, an hour, a decade, millennium, eternity. There had to have been Space before the Big Bang. There had to have been Energy before the Big Bang.


Yes, yes, and yes. Nothing can never exist alone. The fact that "nothing" exists in the first place makes it "something". If you measure it, it is "something".

What if the event that we have penned as "The Big Bang" actually happens always? What if its roots in timelessness and infinity make it an infinite object? This, again, has been grappled with by ancient philosophers, trying to get a bead on the whole "circle of life" concept. I think we have all seen that reality/nature is cyclic. Using the axiom of "as above so below", it would seem that this cyclic nature is on the macro level as well. Nothing is truly more cyclic that a beginning and end that are, in essence, the same event stretched across the timelessness of the infinite.



I can't agree with there being any type of consciousness before the Big Bang (not yet anyway), but I can side with this idea better than I can with the idea of there being nothing.


Keep thinking. That is your only recourse when faced with the unknown: to observe, denote, and ponder. I am now 40. WHen I was 28 I had a viewpoint almost identical to yours. Then the internet happened and a whole world of past studies was opened up to me.

It doesn't matter what you come up with, as long as you are thinking and drawing your own conclusions (even if you take inspiration from the great minds of the past). Just keep thinking.


edit on 7/3/2012 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 01:02 PM
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reply to post by ImaFungi
 


Our consciousness may only be 'awake' during our waking hours. But who is to say that our "consciousness" is our true "awareness"? Could the subconscious mind not be the real brains of the outfit, with conscious thought representing what this awareness is able to do after eliminating all the noise that the world inundates us with?

You, as a being, are always "conscious" in that your subconscious never stops observing. Even when you are asleep, you are an observer. Have you ever moved out of the way of something right before it falls on you? THis is your subconscious mind exerting its will. It short circuits the "conscious" mind and creates action directly.

For more information on this, you can start with Ingo Swann.



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 01:23 PM
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Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by ImaFungi
 


"Our consciousness may only be 'awake' during our waking hours. But who is to say that our "consciousness" is our true "awareness"? Could the subconscious mind not be the real brains of the outfit, with conscious thought representing what this awareness is able to do after eliminating all the noise that the world inundates us with?"

consciousness is just a word describing the fact that we control our physical bodies with the awareness that we are alive ,,,,,, we use a realm of mind/thought to interact cognitively with external reality... and our internal depiction of reality,,,,, as far as subconscious mind,,, goes,,,, a major part of who we want to be,,, who and how we view ourselves is not our say,,,,, we absorb a massive amount of information in our lifetimes via our senses,,,, and we can use that information in any way,,,,, id say our subconscious mind is like the animal instincts of our selves processing the information we receive via senses to create our view of reality.,.,.,.,I think i borrowed that idea from jung or freud when they said the subconscious mind is kind of uncensored,,, whereas our conciousness is what builds concepts of censorship and proper behavior etc... theres a lot i just said in there that i could counter with other points and expand and embellish but to get to what you asked,,,,," who is to say that our consciousness is our true awareness?" I would simply say,,,, when i look at you,,,,,,, whatever is driving your physical body,,, is your consciousness,,,,, a cats consciousness is the informational process that allows a cat to exist a move and react and respond physically from moment to moment,,,.,.,.



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 02:01 PM
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