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Philosophy of god, science, and nothing

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posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 10:50 AM
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reply to post by D1ss1dent
 


Firstly, one must realize one is nothing - that is wisdom. Only then will you realize that you are everything - that is love.
edit on 1-7-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)




posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 10:56 AM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 


The idea of something being self caused is one of the most contradictory statements every created.



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 10:59 AM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 


If you are totally serious about finding nothing, then i will offer you Tony Parsons who is an expert at pointing at nothing.
youtu.be...
youtu.be...
edit on 1-7-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 11:55 AM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 


How can you say No to something you dont know?

Why can it not be the way i have explained it? Is it because you dont understand what i am saying? Or do you know it for a fact that its not how i explained it?
edit on 27.06.08 by spy66 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 12:10 PM
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Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by jiggerj
 


If you are totally serious about finding nothing, then i will offer you Tony Parsons who is an expert at pointing at nothing.
youtu.be...
youtu.be...
edit on 1-7-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)


Here is a transcript of what Tony started to say, and see if you can hear in your mind the leap he (and everyone else) seems to take when explaining oneness:




All there is, is this. Including closing this (the window). This is what's happening. Hearing noises is happening. Hearing my voice, hearing this voice. Feelings in the body are happening. Breathing is happening. Everything that's happening is simply oneness.


Tell me how everything he said up to this point even slightly suggests oneness? He goes on without skipping a beat as though he's explained a perfect connection of everything leading into oneness.

Every time I listen to talks like this I hear this huge leap where one part doesn't explain anything, yet it's left as though it does explain it.

Update: WOW! I just finished it. Have you watched this, and really listened, Itsnowagain? The man said absolutely NOTHING. He could've said everything is ice cream and it would have made just as much sense.
edit on 7/1/2012 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 12:41 PM
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Originally posted by spy66
reply to post by jiggerj
 


How can you say No to something you dont know?

Why can it not be the way i have explained it? Is it because you dont understand what i am saying? Or do you know it for a fact that its not how i explained it?
edit on 27.06.08 by spy66 because: (no reason given)


My statement of 'Just no' is not an attack on you. It means I am not buying one sliver of it. Goblins - just no. Witches - just no. Your definition of nothingness being god - just no.

Everything, and I mean EVERYTHING in the universe points to a realm of somethingness. And nowhere in the universe does it suggest a point or place of nothingness.

Look, I can't take all of the brilliant minds of science, and all of the complicated mysteries of religion and say, you are all wrong. All I can say is, Just no, I am not buying it until a god appears, or something can be clearly proven to be returned (reduced) to absolute nothing.



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 01:36 PM
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Originally posted by jiggerj
The religious belief is that a god created everything. This means that there had to have been a State of Absolute Nothing from which this god started with in order to create everything.

Science suggests that there was nothing before the Big Bang.

With both fields agreeing on a point of nothing, then why is it that we cannot return a something BACK into nothing?

For something to become a scientific fact, a formula must work both frontwards and backwards. If a Something cannot be reduced to absolute nothing, then the idea of nothingness before the Big Bang must be false.

In order to prove a god, the religious must also find a way to return something to its nothingness. If this cannot be done, then the material in this universe has always existed. Hence, no god.


Obviously, the true origins have yet to be widely realized. And yes, you're right that both science and religion have punted on this core issue. It's not all that complicated, but it does require a redefinition of what material existence consists of before you can ever determine just how all that is came from a literal absence of anything.

I have patience though. It'll get sorted out soon enough.



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 01:57 PM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 


I tried to debunk the entire 1st video by posting a YouTube comment to prove the enduring impact of ramification, only to learn that the video channel owner reserves the right to approve (or reject) all comments. Ironically, if my comment does not post after all, then it will have been the ramification of the monitor's determination of it being a direct challenge to the stated philosophy (that ramification is an illusion that can be dismissed) and the follow-on ramification of its elimination as a posted comment.

I love irony.
edit on 7/1/2012 by NorEaster because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 03:03 PM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 






Everything, and I mean EVERYTHING in the universe points to a realm of somethingness.


The universe is a finite, "You do know the difference between a universe and empty space: Right"?. A empty space is not nothing. Its a physical space that dosent have finite matter and energy within it. It dosent have a universe yet.

Look at this image. If the white aria is empty space and infinitely large in all directions. Where did the black dot come from?



It can only have come from the empty space.

How did it get there?



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 03:05 PM
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reply to post by spy66
 


"A empty space is not nothing. Its a physical space"

What is the empty space made of or constructed out of if it is physical?



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 03:21 PM
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Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by jiggerj
 


Even if everything already did exist, that does not mean there is no god. God is energy and everything is formed from the infinite energy of him/her self.


Then your definition of a god isn't aligned with the religious belief.


What do you mean "The" religious belief? As if one religion was some sort of authority. You say that your understanding of 'the' religious belief is that "God created everything" and I am saying that this is not what every religious person believe, therefore it is not 'the' religious belief.

God is energy consciousness and he formed everything from himself, this is why some call him The Architect. He is FORMING things out of material (in this case energy) already there (himself). This is why the universe does not need to be created' it is an eternal part of the creator although it is ever changing.



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 03:25 PM
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Originally posted by jiggerj
The religious belief is that a god created everything. This means that there had to have been a State of Absolute Nothing from which this god started with in order to create everything.

Science suggests that there was nothing before the Big Bang.

With both fields agreeing on a point of nothing, then why is it that we cannot return a something BACK into nothing?

For something to become a scientific fact, a formula must work both frontwards and backwards. If a Something cannot be reduced to absolute nothing, then the idea of nothingness before the Big Bang must be false.

In order to prove a god, the religious must also find a way to return something to its nothingness. If this cannot be done, then the material in this universe has always existed. Hence, no god.




your statements are wrong science declares that there are many things in this world that can not get reversed for example if you mix two fluids and they get solved how can you make this event reverse if you think that can you are wrong because there is a concept in the science called exergy loss and irreversablility so because of your wrong hypothesis your conclusion is also wrong.



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 03:31 PM
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Originally posted by ImaFungi
reply to post by spy66
 


"A empty space is not nothing. Its a physical space"

What is the empty space made of or constructed out of if it is physical?


A Empty space is the only physical dimension that can be infinite. It is the only dimension that can be absolutely neutral.

This space has always existed because it is the only true constant that can be, It can never change without a will to do so. Because there exists no external cause to form changes.

What the empty space consists of beats the hell out of me. I dont know. And i/we will never know. Because the distance to empty space is to far away for us to study or to sample it.

We cannot create this emptiness in a lab within our universe. A lab will only create a chambered vacuum. A vacuum in a chamber will never be neutral. It is always negative.
edit on 27.06.08 by spy66 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 03:44 PM
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Originally posted by maes9

Originally posted by jiggerj
The religious belief is that a god created everything. This means that there had to have been a State of Absolute Nothing from which this god started with in order to create everything.

Science suggests that there was nothing before the Big Bang.

With both fields agreeing on a point of nothing, then why is it that we cannot return a something BACK into nothing?

For something to become a scientific fact, a formula must work both frontwards and backwards. If a Something cannot be reduced to absolute nothing, then the idea of nothingness before the Big Bang must be false.

In order to prove a god, the religious must also find a way to return something to its nothingness. If this cannot be done, then the material in this universe has always existed. Hence, no god.




your statements are wrong science declares that there are many things in this world that can not get reversed for example if you mix two fluids and they get solved how can you make this event reverse if you think that can you are wrong because there is a concept in the science called exergy loss and irreversablility so because of your wrong hypothesis your conclusion is also wrong.


You are on the right track. Math does give us a clue that we cant reverse a physical process.

Take -5 + 9

-5 + 9 = +4.

But does +4 = -5 + 9 again? No it dosent.



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 03:45 PM
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reply to post by spy66
 


ok ok,,,, yea i just was wondering,,,, because you say the space is physical,,,, so im wondering what it is made of because the word physical implies something that has form, and is tangible, and of construct........

im also wondering because the idea of space,,, i always thought is the idea of anti physical,,, or that which is not,,,,, or ,,, nothing.... actual nothing,,,,, void,, of physical characteristics....

interesting though,, is that all things physical depend on this void, or space in order to exist..... without space in what manner would all things in the universe exist? from the most micro and quantom confines to the millions of macro galaxy clusters,,,,, if all space was compressed out and all matter compressed to deny the existence of space between all matter,,,,,, i think this is what scientists believe existed before the big bang....



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 04:05 PM
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Originally posted by ImaFungi
reply to post by spy66
 


ok ok,,,, yea i just was wondering,,,, because you say the space is physical,,,, so im wondering what it is made of because the word physical implies something that has form, and is tangible, and of construct........

im also wondering because the idea of space,,, i always thought is the idea of anti physical,,, or that which is not,,,,, or ,,, nothing.... actual nothing,,,,, void,, of physical characteristics....

interesting though,, is that all things physical depend on this void, or space in order to exist..... without space in what manner would all things in the universe exist? from the most micro and quantom confines to the millions of macro galaxy clusters,,,,, if all space was compressed out and all matter compressed to deny the existence of space between all matter,,,,,, i think this is what scientists believe existed before the big bang....


Empty space is as physical as our universe. But it dosent have to be formed, and it cant be formed if it is infinite. Finite has to be formed, because it is not infinite. Finite is a different dimension than the infinite dimension off "empty space".
Empty space is not a finite shape or form.

What form or shape does a absolute empty space have? What do the edges of empty space look like?

It is the finite we see that have a form and a shape not the empty space.





interesting though,, is that all things physical depend on this void, or space in order to exist..... without space in what manner would all things in the universe exist?


Good point






if all space was compressed out and all matter compressed to deny the existence of space between all matter,,,,,, i think this is what scientists believe existed before the big bang....


You cant compress space outwards. All you can do is compress all energy and matter together, And you will have a solid hot ball of plasma. And empty space surrounding it at all sides.
edit on 27.06.08 by spy66 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 07:26 AM
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Originally posted by spy66
reply to post by jiggerj
 






Everything, and I mean EVERYTHING in the universe points to a realm of somethingness.


The universe is a finite, "You do know the difference between a universe and empty space: Right"?. A empty space is not nothing. Its a physical space that dosent have finite matter and energy within it. It dosent have a universe yet.

Look at this image. If the white aria is empty space and infinitely large in all directions. Where did the black dot come from?



It can only have come from the empty space.

How did it get there?



Take a balloon filled with air (or water, or anything else) and empty the space inside. The balloon completely collapses. There cannot be a space that is empty.



posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 07:30 AM
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Originally posted by arpgme

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by jiggerj
 


Even if everything already did exist, that does not mean there is no god. God is energy and everything is formed from the infinite energy of him/her self.


Then your definition of a god isn't aligned with the religious belief.


What do you mean "The" religious belief? As if one religion was some sort of authority. You say that your understanding of 'the' religious belief is that "God created everything" and I am saying that this is not what every religious person believe, therefore it is not 'the' religious belief.

God is energy consciousness and he formed everything from himself, this is why some call him The Architect. He is FORMING things out of material (in this case energy) already there (himself). This is why the universe does not need to be created' it is an eternal part of the creator although it is ever changing.


I'm just saying the common religious belief is that god looks like man. As for your description, I believe it's much closer to the truth, minus the consciousness part, which is impossible.



posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 07:34 AM
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Originally posted by maes9

Originally posted by jiggerj
The religious belief is that a god created everything. This means that there had to have been a State of Absolute Nothing from which this god started with in order to create everything.

Science suggests that there was nothing before the Big Bang.

With both fields agreeing on a point of nothing, then why is it that we cannot return a something BACK into nothing?

For something to become a scientific fact, a formula must work both frontwards and backwards. If a Something cannot be reduced to absolute nothing, then the idea of nothingness before the Big Bang must be false.

In order to prove a god, the religious must also find a way to return something to its nothingness. If this cannot be done, then the material in this universe has always existed. Hence, no god.




your statements are wrong science declares that there are many things in this world that can not get reversed for example if you mix two fluids and they get solved how can you make this event reverse if you think that can you are wrong because there is a concept in the science called exergy loss and irreversablility so because of your wrong hypothesis your conclusion is also wrong.



Scientific equations?



posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 09:18 AM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 





I'm just saying the common religious belief is that god looks like man. As for your description, I believe it's much closer to the truth, minus the consciousness part, which is impossible
.

Why is impossible for the infinite to have a consciousness? As a matter of fact it must have consciousness.

The very first dimension must be infinite and empty. That makes it a true constant. A true constant can not change without a will to do so.

It is impossible for a dimension that is a constant to change without a will.

I have been talking to Jehovah and they say that God is a Man/person. It is even mentioned in the bible.
I have been trying to ask how God can be a man. And all these people refer to is Jesus. But Jesus was a man borne 2012 years ago? But they go on to say that Jesus i actually Michael. How can Jesus be God and Michael at the same time?
After we talked more about this; they said that Jesus was Gods only begotten son? Very confusing. Because Jesus told us we were all Gods children. What Jesus is implying is that he is equal to us in the eyes of God.







edit on 27.06.08 by spy66 because: (no reason given)






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