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Philosophy of god, science, and nothing

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posted on Jul, 7 2012 @ 02:15 PM
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reply to post by Itisnowagain
 


Silence, of course, is made of silence. It is a "something", as you have identified and labelled it.

No, you don't have to read all that to continue your (mis)understanding of what was meant when "the word" was coined into hyperbole. You can continue with your (mis)conceptions. To be honest, the most important thing should be what it means to you.


But if you ever want to know what it meant, truly and originally, refer to what I referred to you. THerein lies your answer.




posted on Jul, 7 2012 @ 02:19 PM
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Originally posted by spy66

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan
 


We are talking about 'the word' so i don't see why i should read all that to dismantle what 'the word' means. This thread is about finding what this 'nothing' is and i am pointing toward what nothing is by explaining that before the word there was nothing.

Prior to the mind making noise there is silence. What is silence made of?
edit on 7-7-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)


Wouldn't the very first be a thought; a consciousness?

How can there be a word without it?

A word would be friction of some kind.


To be specific, a "word" is an acoustic wave. Other terms would be "phonon", "heat", "perturbation", and "disturbance". Noise, which is what a spoken word would be, is what causes data loss.

For there to be a spoken word, there must first be a signal which it can impart itself into.

In this way, perhaps a "word" would be the initial perturbation that threw the static primordial ball into a nonhomeostatic state, causing the expansion known as the big bang?

Just shooting from the hip there by employing hyperbole.


The point is, the poster we are referencing is being very fast and very loose with their logic. If it represents their spiritual viewpoint, I would expect severe cognitive dissonance when you try to speak to the lack of logic. For a word to travel and be heard, it would have to travel THROUGH something (like air). That is why space is quiet. There is no air to transmit acoustic waves. The poster seems to not want to truly understand what they are referencing.
edit on 7-7-2012 by bigfatfurrytexan because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 7 2012 @ 03:37 PM
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I think most importantly the word symbolizes information,,.,.,, understanding.,,..,,. language of humans,.,,.,. and language of cells.,.,,,.., and language of birds,.,.,.,.,. language of dna,.,.,.,..,,. physics,,, math,.,.,.,. are languages.,,..,,. logical confines of information,,,,. that happen to represent the physical reality which all these things come from.,..,.,.,., imagine how hard it would be for humans to do anything without language,.,.,..,. without written code to hold onto our information.,,..,., to stabilize our thoughts and concepts.,.,, so that they may be applied to areas of life which need them..,,.,.,.., areas of life like anything from building a home.,,..,, anything technological,..,,. cars,,, computers.,.,.,,. schools and books,,,.,.,. sewage systems.,.., law ,,.,..,.,,. lessons.,.,.,.,.



posted on Jul, 7 2012 @ 03:41 PM
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reply to post by ImaFungi
 


The word, I would postulate, would relate to the voice of God. The wave function. Reality is a harmonic wave, spoken into existence (to use hyperbole). The word is a sea of kinetic energy known as "the universe".
edit on 7-7-2012 by bigfatfurrytexan because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 7 2012 @ 04:13 PM
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reply to post by Itisnowagain
 


Silence is a lack of atoms colliding against your ear drum. You really don't want to be in a position to be experiencing silence as your death will be imminent (if not instant).



posted on Jul, 7 2012 @ 09:58 PM
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reply to post by ImaFungi
 


From the prior link above regarding Pythagoras:


"... and the whole heaven to be a musical scale and a number... "

It seemed clear to the Pythagoreans that the distances between the planets would have the same ratios as produced harmonious sounds in a plucked string. To them, the solar system consisted of ten spheres revolving in circles about a central fire, each sphere giving off a sound the way a projectile makes a sound as it swished through the air; the closer spheres gave lower tones while the farther moved faster and gave higher pitched sounds. All combined into a beautiful harmony, the music of the spheres.

This idea was picked up by Plato, who in his Republic says of the cosmos; ". . . Upon each of its circles stood a siren who was carried round with its movements, uttering the concords of a single scale," and who, in his Timaeus, describes the circles of heaven subdivided according to the musical ratios.

Kepler, 20 centuries later, wrote in his Harmonice Munde (1619) says that he wishes "to erect the magnificent edifice of the harmonic system of the musical scale . . . as God, the Creator Himself, has expressed it in harmonizing the heavenly motions."

And later, "I grant you that no sounds are given forth, but I affirm . . . that the movements of the planets are modulated according to harmonic proportions."


If you want to discuss the reasoning behind the terminology used in the ancient religious texts, you have to discuss them in the mindset of the people who wrote them. Religions are the carriers of esoteric knowledge. They are a 3 fold construct, with the profane (Pythagoras called this level "politics"), the initiates, and the teachers. The vast majority of any religions followers are simple "politics" in the system. They do not want nor do they seek that deeper truth. They just want guidance and the illusion of salvation.



posted on Jul, 7 2012 @ 10:50 PM
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reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan
 


ok,,,, but if you read my above post i think it makes some sense at least..,.,.,..,,., its all connected,.,.,., organization,,,,.. scale,.,,. measurement,.,., math.,.,,.,. harmony,.,.., is mathematical intervals.,.,,.,. musical scales has to do with the frequency of vibration,,, as does energy and matter.,,.,, vibrations and frequencies,,.,.,. humans use words as commands to produce action,.,.,.,. god spoke the word,,, and the universe was commanded to begin,.,,, the universe via science is known to obey laws,.,.,.,. which are dictated by mathematical properties,.,, and principles,..,.,,. and create structure and stability.,,.,. order,.,.,.,. information,.,.,. informative.,.,.., meaning,.,.,.,.,. intent,.,.,. understanding.,..,,.,.knowing,..,., constructing..,.,



posted on Jul, 7 2012 @ 10:53 PM
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reply to post by ImaFungi
 


Yeah. I was just trying to say it with a lot less punctuation.



posted on Jul, 7 2012 @ 11:19 PM
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reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan
 


substance needs space..

I write things in the rhythm i think them,,,

and the things I write arent meaningless blatherings to me ,..,,.

they make sense to me,,,,, i can understand how another may not understand what I write,,,,



posted on Jul, 7 2012 @ 11:20 PM
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reply to post by ImaFungi
 



I meant no offense. I am the last person to critique syntax and grammar. and I probably overuse the ellipses more than any other human being
I was just being a smart aleck
edit on 7-7-2012 by bigfatfurrytexan because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 7 2012 @ 11:40 PM
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reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan
 


its all good,, I know I write like that often though,, pretty much all the time,,, and i can understand it bothering someone,,, but id just say pay attention to the words,,,. I dislike grammar nazis' .... though gods grammar with his word was divine..... i wonder if he had spell check



posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 03:41 AM
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Originally posted by john_bmth
reply to post by Itisnowagain
 


Silence is a lack of atoms colliding against your ear drum. You really don't want to be in a position to be experiencing silence as your death will be imminent (if not instant).


The silence i am speaking of is 'inside' the mind so no ears are required. Do you use your ears to hear your thoughts?
Prior to a thought (word) there is silence. Prior to the word there is just this present moment. This present moment is rarely seen by humans because they have words that colour and shape it into something they 'think' it is. Humans shape their existence by the thoughts and words they stamp on it. Words remove you from what is real.



posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 03:52 AM
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reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan
 


Noise/word could be said to be an appearance but it has to appear on/in something. The something it appears on/in is not an appearance. When you listen to music there has to be a note then no note then a note then no note, the gaps of nothing are always there. Nothing is the backdrop to everything.
The tv screen (which is empty of things) has to be present prior to any picture appearing. A canvas has to be before a painting can be painted.

You are the nothing/silence/stillness on which existence shows/moves.



posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 08:54 AM
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reply to post by Itisnowagain
 



Well, thats all fine and dandy. Except it wasn't the viewpoint of the ancient esotericsists.



posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 10:03 AM
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reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan
 


You seem to be attached to your ideas about the viewpoint of the ancient esotericsists and Pythagoras' axiom, "There is music in the spheres."
I am staying on topic and pointing to nothing.
edit on 8-7-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 10:26 AM
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Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan
 


You seem to be attached to your ideas about the viewpoint of the ancient esotericsists and Pythagoras' axiom, "There is music in the spheres."
I am staying on topic and pointing to nothing.
edit on 8-7-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)


I am just stating that nothing can not exist.

But you are correct. I am mostly thinking out loud here, not arguing. I will thinking to myself instead.



posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 10:49 AM
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reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan
 


Nothing does not appear to exist.



posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 12:19 PM
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Nothing (no thing) is difficult to discuss, and philosophers have been doing so for a long time. Metaphysics and epistemology are not easy subjects.

Fear to tread, for you may find yourself looking into an abyss you can not then look away from...



posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 12:26 PM
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reply to post by Lazarus Short
 


That is very unusual that you would say that.

The abyss that you cannot look away from...that is the topic of this thread..

It would seem that some philosophers are known to have gazed into this abyss, and then lost their minds. I can totally understand this. When I am in a deeper state of reflection for several days in a row, I feel a strain on how I am perceiving the world around me.

WHen I am absent from ATS, it is usually either my work, or me taking a break so I can get back to some grounding.



posted on Jul, 8 2012 @ 12:36 PM
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reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan
 


There are places we were not meant to look into, and there are subjects we were not meant to explore, and it is for our own good, due to our limited, three-dimensional nature. Those who have done so have suffered for it. There are a number of topics I have looked into just enough to know I didn't want to know any more...



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