The American People Are Angry!

Originally posted by antonia

Originally posted by MidnightTide
We are extremists?

How about realists

No, you are not, The average american does not support the things most of you call for. If you were realistic you would admit that.

So when everything turns belly up, the people can blame themselves.

You guys have been saying this for five years. I suspect the entire world isn't going to collapse anytime soon. I don't buy into the ATS mad max fantasy.

Yes, I realize that common sense and personal responsibility are an endangered species. Because most people sip the kool-aid doesn't mean I have to. As to the economic collapse, just take a look at the news? The European Union is breaking, the shadow economy (derivative market) is exponentially larger then the real economy (and over 20 banks have been caught manipulating the Libor rate which affects that market) and five of the largest American banks have just submitted a written will in cause they collapse. Doesn't sound like anything that has happened before.

What do you suggest? Trust the government, they know better, right?

I will take a pass on that one, but by all means, you and whoever else can keep on depending on the government to take care of you.

(and who is suggesting anarchy? smaller government doesn't mean no government)

Originally posted by MidnightTide

Yes, I realize that common sense and personal responsibility are an endangered species.

Oh, so what you are saying is people of your particular persuasion have a monopoly on that?

As to the economic collapse, just take a look at the news?

Mmmhmm, but it still isn't the mad max fantasy you guys keep parroting.

The European Union is breaking,

You guys have been saying it for the last 5 years, it's still there. Judging by the ATS track record I'm going to assume it'll still be there in a few years.

Doesn't sound like anything that has happened before.

Sure it has, go read about the depression in the late 1800's, the Panics of the early 1900's. There is nothing new about this.

What do you suggest?

Try getting real about what most American's believe. Most American's aren't for the complete dismantling of every regulation, social safety net or government program in existence.

Trust the government, they know better, right?

I don't, I already said my beliefs are outside of the mainstream, but I'm still not silly enough to think most American's are ready to revolt. Furthermore, revolt isn't enough, you have to present something new and what most of you propose is not what most American's would accept.

reply to post by froglette

More to prove my point. You get tax paying forensic accountants in there. They unlike most of the government The IRS is still subject some rules and laws.

Okay, tell me how to get those forensic accountants past the security dudes and through the doors and I'll get right on it. This has been going on for decades, yet you think congress might act on it now? Why?

My opinion is this, if people got together to call for this kind of financial justice. I'm not asking for one law to be changed. I am not asking for revolution. To be honest, my opinion is the reason it hasn't happened is corruption. If a large group of people began calling for it and didn't stop till it happened then it just might happen. One could ask the question, what is it you have to hide? If you've done nothing wrong, then show us.

Things would change.

I'm not saying that this would happen, it would be great.

You're right, neither of those things will happen ~ the people getting together to make government do anything, or financial justice. So an alternate plan might be to send all tax payments to the state governments to be held in trust until such time as the federal government cleans up its act. Oh wait, the states would find a way to squander it before that ever happened.

That's why we have to clean up state government first. Even that's a huge bite that would be hard to chew.

Originally posted by EvilSadamClone
This constant calling for an armed rebellion is just a knee jerk reaction like people who claim they'll leave the country but never do. It's just a bunch of stupid hyperbole.

When the rebellion begins I will go fight. I would gladly give my life if it meant that my grandkids would be free. And I would happily leave this country and never return if only someone would give me the money to do so. I have begged for 16 years for the $100,000 I need in order to leave and set up a new life elsewhere. I have been calling for a revolution since I was 16 and learned that this nation is nothing but a bunch of hypocrites and thieves. When I started calling for a revolution people told me I was crazy. Now I am no longer alone.

We need to kill not only the entire elected government, but the supreme court and the mega rich (and their families). Then we need a new constitution that expressly forbids government from ever taking powers we did not give it again. We need consequences for proposing unconstitutional laws. Real ones. We need term limits. we need a weak central government. We can't have any of that as long as these crooks still think they can tell us what to do. The government is preventing us from taking power away from the government. Therefore we need to kill it and start again.

Originally posted by antonia

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Are you trying to say extremists are not allowed a voice with the media? Are you saying only democrats and republicans should be allowed advertisements? Are you saying they are too dangerous and thus national security threats?

When did I say any such thing?

How much airtime do the libertarians get? How much airtime does the green party get? How much airtime does the socialist party usa get, or the progressive party, or the constitution party, or the communist party, or ........

They would get more airtime if people shared those views and the MSM could make money off it. Simple fact is it is very easy to campaign through social media for cheap these days. If you can't make head roads that way it's likely most people just don't share your views.

The fact only parties and people with LOTS OF MONEY can push their agenda and NOT ALLOW people the right to choice effectively means THERE IS NO DEMOCRACY! Sure they get a little time, but the bare minimum.

And then there is the possibility that most American's simply do not share the views of the average ATS anarchist.

Anarchism is really extreme right politics but the communist manifesto says otherwise. Guess who wrote the communist manifesto? Anarchism means no government. If the soviets where communists then that more or less proves the cm was bullcrap.

Capitalism=full private ownership of everything, socialism=mixed economy, communism=full public ownership of everything. These are the definitions that most people adhere to and probably correct.

Yes I agree the people share most of the responsibility and I said it before. We need real literacy but unfortunately I don't see it happening anytime soon.

Originally posted by acmpnsfal
Reply to post by jude11

 

Eh many Americans are angry. The problem is they dont realize who they should be angry at and misdirect their anger so nothing changes.

 

Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

 

Sure they do. 79% disapproval rating, for congress. That should tell you everything.

reply to post by sonnny1


Do you mean disapprove? The last spread I saw it was pretty much 17.8 percent approval rating

reply to post by antonia




fixed !

Thanks ! if it was approved,we wouldn't be in this mess.......

Man, after watching the interview of the communist leader on FOX News I can't believe the patience of that guy.

Glenn Beck was baiting and insulting him into oblivion. I guess you have to put up with that # to get any airtime at all.

Originally posted by DaphneApollo
reply to post by jude11

 

I haven't read your thread but that was the best 25+ minutes I have ever viewed.

S&F for the video alone, Thanks for posting it.

Thanks for that.

I might suggest cruising thru the poster comments because there are some incredible contributions and a hell of a lot of insight here.

Peace

Oh its Summer time!

American people want their MTV and beer.

*everyone chants USA! USA! USA!*

Originally posted by Ookie

Originally posted by EvilSadamClone
This constant calling for an armed rebellion is just a knee jerk reaction like people who claim they'll leave the country but never do. It's just a bunch of stupid hyperbole.

When the rebellion begins I will go fight. I would gladly give my life if it meant that my grandkids would be free. And I would happily leave this country and never return if only someone would give me the money to do so. I have begged for 16 years for the $100,000 I need in order to leave and set up a new life elsewhere. I have been calling for a revolution since I was 16 and learned that this nation is nothing but a bunch of hypocrites and thieves. When I started calling for a revolution people told me I was crazy. Now I am no longer alone.

We need to kill not only the entire elected government, but the supreme court and the mega rich (and their families). Then we need a new constitution that expressly forbids government from ever taking powers we did not give it again. We need consequences for proposing unconstitutional laws. Real ones. We need term limits. we need a weak central government. We can't have any of that as long as these crooks still think they can tell us what to do. The government is preventing us from taking power away from the government. Therefore we need to kill it and start again.

I have the same plans, WHEN the rebellion starts I will deffinately join, what worries me is, who will be our hero in disgiuse and get the ball rolling?
Things are not like they were back in the 50`s- through 80`s, it was easier to protest, and change things. I was in a few myself, peaceful movements some worked out some didnt.
I believe americans still have our backbones, we are jsut waiting for the exact right moment. We dont mass riot at the drop of a dime, but when we do things will change as they have in the past. peace to us all

Dear Jean Paul,
Lots of fancy words there.
But, EXACTLY what procedure do you advocate that we use?

You have noted that the State of AZ has attempted to enforce our immigrations laws and that the monster in DC is telling them that they cannot do that. So where is their power?

How many ways can we resist the tyranny without finding ourselves in jail for it?

Mandatory vaccination is nearly impossible to avoid, and the mosters are doing what they can to override parental rights, and possibly puts them in jail for child abuse.
Baby born in the hospital gets shots almost immediatly..If parent objects - State takes the baby.
How do you propose we handle that?

Driving without a licence - jail.
No licence on the vehicle - impoundment and fine.
No business licence - fine and closure of business.
And we are to do what?

A few people have refused to pay their taxes and you know what happened to them.
Writing to our legislators is a waste of time.
Petitions are mostly useless.

So what else of pratical value is there?

reply to post by jude11


The way to beat TPTB is to do things yourself. Get a house(with some land), grow your own food and find means to gather your own water, get married and have kids that will know to do the same. Ladies, I'm available....

reply to post by jude11

this made me aspirate on this great tasting shock top.
jude thank you for this video but, you almost made me throw up. lol
man this is ridiculous. i already knew a few things he covered but it is awesome to see a politician cover such points. for a politician to do such thing is taboo.

Do not try to bend the government, that's impossible. Instead only try to realize the truth, there is no government only corporations...A twist on a matrix quote

The American people are angry because everything is not free. They are angry because they have to work for their bread. They are angry because the rules by which they may enjoy their bread have been complicated by leaders who must negotiate with population that doesn't understand the bigger picture. And in order to make things fair, we are forced to endure the consequences of those unwilling to follow the rules.

In short, the American people are mad because their neighbors are fools.

It seems as if Americans cannot get their elected representatives to act in their interests. When that happens, the fact is that Americans have no representatives. Americans have to find ways to acquire representatives who will act in their interests.

I have a suggestion for the American people.

Approach Senator Sanders and other like minded legislators to create a caucus for the American people, with a view to strategizing ways for a reprioritizing of the budgetary expenditures of the nation.

If this doesn't work, then there are alternatives that have been shown to work in the past, witholding taxes, civil disobedience and I'm told that once they even went so far as to create a "Continental Congress". There is a lot of room to manouver, if the movements can be coordinated by responsable experts like the senator from Vermont.

Rich people and rich corporations should be paying their fair share of taxes. The price of a huge bailout for any corporation should be equity in the corporation for the American people, dividend payments to them and voting rights on the corporate boards. I can stand a welfare bum. I can't stand a corporate welfare bum.

reply to post by SplitInfinity

I agree with much you have said here. But one thing you have not touched on is using a system and the rules of that system to effect change via the system.

I did touch upon using the system. Admittedly it was a light touch and it was getting late last night when I made that post so I didn't take the time to link to the Void for Vagueness Doctrine:

1) A constitutional rule that requires criminal laws to state explicitly and definitely what conduct is punishable. Criminal laws that violate this requirement are said to be void for vagueness. Vagueness doctrine rests on the due process clauses of the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments of the U.S. Constitution. By requiring fair notice of what is punishable and what is not, vagueness doctrine also helps prevent arbitrary enforcement of the laws.

2) Under vagueness doctrine, a statute is also void for vagueness if a legislature's delegation of authority to judges and/or administrators is so extensive that it would lead to arbitrary prosecutions.

We have a tax code that is a five volume set with countless pages and millions upon millions of words with a tautology of definitions that are so circumlocutory in their meaning, not to mention so ridiculously filled with delegations to "tax courts" and IRS agents that surely this tax code is void for vagueness. Yet, who uses that doctrine to extricate themselves from a tax scheme they were likely never liable for to begin with?

Touch upon the system is about the best I can do right now, but as time permits I will try to revisit this issue of touching upon using the system to affect change.

Originally posted by RSF77
deleted.

edit on 1-7-2012 by RSF77 because: (no reason given)

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by RSF77

 

Governments aren't designed to oppress people or give some wide swath of people something they deserve. In America our government is supposed to work for us, this is what separated us from the Europeans... you know the guys who decapitated a bunch of people during a certain time (I guess they deserved that huh?). I guess some people don't believe in what we are supposed to stand for anymore.

That is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.

All governments are supposed to work for the people, none do. This is why the Constitution for the United States of America - you know that document you've never really read - is a profound indictment on government.

This is why the Bill of Rights was added to that Constitution. Those Bill of Rights are express prohibitions on government, and the Constitution isn't some feel good document that blathers on about how good our government is, and if you ever bothered to read it you would know that.

edit on 1-7-2012 by Jean Paul Zodeaux because: (no reason given)

That's nice, I see you all but plagiarized some of that post I deleted.

I'm trying to tell you the people that run this ship don't give a damn about a constitution and you turn around and try to tell me about it. I've read the constitution and screw you for implying otherwise, troll.

Keep flinging little subtle insults though, I'm sure that will go a long way towards your "warrior poet" bs.