The American People Are Angry!

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by g2v12

 

There has to be some balance between the free market and regulation.

There can be no balance between the free market and regulation. Just one single regulation kills the free market. It is just that simple. It is disingenuous and empty rhetoric to claim there can be a balance struck between the two. There is either one, or the other, never both.

You quoted one sentence from my post? - I just explained how deregulation allowed Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to perform like banks, when they didn't even have the capital to prevent failure.

I'll say it again, Reckless Greed.

This was done by Sen. McCain (among others) who wanted to get rich on fast track investments. Deregulation and greed is why millions of American are loosing jobs and paying higher tax to support a failed financial system.

I didn't make this stuff up. its just a hard fact. You seem smart enough to follow the data, what happened?

This is what I mean about partisanship. Your cherry picking the information is so typical of conservative meandering, which means that the truth doesn't really matter because you're sticking to your favorite political view.

Based on the facts, I would say that you are the one full of disingenuous rhetoric.

Silence on Michigan. Explosions, Military Helicopters and ground troops operation in Michigan -- www.activistpost.com...

Still no explanations or any comments on govs behalf. So that's it – so easy in this country government can use weapons against people. Hundreds heard the explosions, hundreds saw helicopters and A-10 fighters in Michigan that day, finally thousands can see it now in photos! We all are waiting to hear a word from the dammit authorities made the show?? Why do they refuse to speak on it? What are they trying to hide? Reportedly, 380 American residents killed!! For what did they die?? Tell us!! God, what next?? Are these damned idiots tomorrow to shoot down protesters in the Wall Street without any trial?? Obama, it is you personally to response!!

Originally posted by g2v12

Deregulation and greed is why millions of American are loosing jobs and paying higher tax to support a failed financial system.

Well see, you've already figured out the problem. We have a failed financial system. It failed when banks were centralized right out of the starting gate, but it failed harder in 1913 when "our" financial system was turned over to an unconstitutional, private, for-profit banking cartel and since 1913 the dollar has lost 97% of its value.

So yeah, that's the failed system we have, but WE keep USING those dollars as if they had value. WE keep paying in our 3 cents on the dollar in taxes to the failed system and they keep pumping out more 3 cent dollar (and falling fast) bills. Tell me, how many times does a ten dollar bill have to change hands before it has no value at all? Fees, penalties, fines, interest and taxes on every transaction eat that piece of paper up before it can travel a mile.

You can blame Fanny, Freddie or anyone else you choose for what is happening, but WE are the oes who keep this failed system semi functioning by OUR use of it. STOP it!

Ben Franklin explained how the colonies made free market currency work.

He said: “We have no poor houses in the Colonies; and if we had some, there would be nobody to put in them, since there is, in the Colonies, not a single unemployed person, neither beggars nor tramps.”

“In the Colonies, we issue our own paper money. It is called ‘Colonial Scrip.’ We issue it in proper proportion to make the goods and pass easily from the producers to the consumers. In this manner, creating ourselves our own paper money, we control its purchasing power and we have no interest to pay to no one.”

21stcenturycicero.wordpress.com...

Its that damned simple. But apparently it's still too difficult for us poorly educated idiots in the greatest country on earth to figure out and make happen. And the financiers? They're laughing their asses off at us ~ all the way to the bank with our tax money and our mortgage payments for what they have claimed to be their property.

So if you want a system that functions for the good of the people, tell the bankers to take a hike and let's get busy creating our own money in the proper proportion to the goods we manufacture and you'll be amazed to see greed disappear from our financial system. People will be too busy manufacturing what other people want to buy to think about stealing anything. The best part is that we'll need no further regulations. The Market (we, the buyers and sellers) will regulate the system quite nicely.

Originally posted by frazzle

Originally posted by g2v12

Deregulation and greed is why millions of American are loosing jobs and paying higher tax to support a failed financial system.

Well see, you've already figured out the problem. We have a failed financial system. It failed when banks were centralized right out of the starting gate, but it failed harder in 1913 when "our" financial system was turned over to an unconstitutional, private, for-profit banking cartel and since 1913 the dollar has lost 97% of its value.

So yeah, that's the failed system we have, but WE keep USING those dollars as if they had value. WE keep paying in our 3 cents on the dollar in taxes to the failed system and they keep pumping out more 3 cent dollar (and falling fast) bills. Tell me, how many times does a ten dollar bill have to change hands before it has no value at all? Fees, penalties, fines, interest and taxes on every transaction eat that piece of paper up before it can travel a mile.

You can blame Fanny, Freddie or anyone else you choose for what is happening, but WE are the oes who keep this failed system semi functioning by OUR use of it. STOP it!

Ben Franklin explained how the colonies made free market currency work.

He said: “We have no poor houses in the Colonies; and if we had some, there would be nobody to put in them, since there is, in the Colonies, not a single unemployed person, neither beggars nor tramps.”

“In the Colonies, we issue our own paper money. It is called ‘Colonial Scrip.’ We issue it in proper proportion to make the goods and pass easily from the producers to the consumers. In this manner, creating ourselves our own paper money, we control its purchasing power and we have no interest to pay to no one.”

21stcenturycicero.wordpress.com...

Its that damned simple. But apparently it's still too difficult for us poorly educated idiots in the greatest country on earth to figure out and make happen. And the financiers? They're laughing their asses off at us ~ all the way to the bank with our tax money and our mortgage payments for what they have claimed to be their property.

So if you want a system that functions for the good of the people, tell the bankers to take a hike and let's get busy creating our own money in the proper proportion to the goods we manufacture and you'll be amazed to see greed disappear from our financial system. People will be too busy manufacturing what other people want to buy to think about stealing anything. The best part is that we'll need no further regulations. The Market (we, the buyers and sellers) will regulate the system quite nicely.

Excellent post!

I wish you would use it to start a new thread. These are the sort of threads that matter, because they are based on historical data, not trendy opinions based on ideological propaganda and disinformation.

Americans are so confused and polarized simply because they have lost account of history. History is our future. There IS NO future other than one based on history, because the educated thieves that are screwing us are using techniques that go back to ancient times.

Everything we are discussing has already been said. We found 4,000 year old Egyptian pictographs inside a pyramid which depicted political humor we use today in m21st century America.

The human mind never really changes, we just go through periods of inspiration and stupidity.

During the time of the colonies, Jefferson and Franklin, America was rising into its intellectual renaissance. In the 21st century it is intellectually stagnant and democracy is stiff in a cold morgue.

You people are so full of yourselves that you've condescended every principle of political and economic freedom for a repressive police state that has no respect for the Constitution.

The US in ruins because of greed and phoney wars that caused Arab and millionaires to divest in American companies for Chinese manufacturers.

The Constitution now hangs by a thread under a security state ideology as it did over the slavery issue. The economy is about to plunge into an abyss, from which it can never return. Study Japanese and Argentina economies.

The US dollar is being dumped by Russia, China, Japan and several Middle Eastern nations under an organized agreement that other currencies will be used for international commerce. The US dollar has lost its value internationally because of printing.

This government is keeping you from what is happening because they can't stop it and they are profiting from it.

Wake up and take back your life!

Originally posted by g2v12

Originally posted by frazzle

Originally posted by g2v12

Deregulation and greed is why millions of American are loosing jobs and paying higher tax to support a failed financial system.

Well see, you've already figured out the problem. We have a failed financial system. It failed when banks were centralized right out of the starting gate, but it failed harder in 1913 when "our" financial system was turned over to an unconstitutional, private, for-profit banking cartel and since 1913 the dollar has lost 97% of its value.

So yeah, that's the failed system we have, but WE keep USING those dollars as if they had value. WE keep paying in our 3 cents on the dollar in taxes to the failed system and they keep pumping out more 3 cent dollar (and falling fast) bills. Tell me, how many times does a ten dollar bill have to change hands before it has no value at all? Fees, penalties, fines, interest and taxes on every transaction eat that piece of paper up before it can travel a mile.

You can blame Fanny, Freddie or anyone else you choose for what is happening, but WE are the oes who keep this failed system semi functioning by OUR use of it. STOP it!

Ben Franklin explained how the colonies made free market currency work.

He said: “We have no poor houses in the Colonies; and if we had some, there would be nobody to put in them, since there is, in the Colonies, not a single unemployed person, neither beggars nor tramps.”

“In the Colonies, we issue our own paper money. It is called ‘Colonial Scrip.’ We issue it in proper proportion to make the goods and pass easily from the producers to the consumers. In this manner, creating ourselves our own paper money, we control its purchasing power and we have no interest to pay to no one.”

21stcenturycicero.wordpress.com...

Its that damned simple. But apparently it's still too difficult for us poorly educated idiots in the greatest country on earth to figure out and make happen. And the financiers? They're laughing their asses off at us ~ all the way to the bank with our tax money and our mortgage payments for what they have claimed to be their property.

So if you want a system that functions for the good of the people, tell the bankers to take a hike and let's get busy creating our own money in the proper proportion to the goods we manufacture and you'll be amazed to see greed disappear from our financial system. People will be too busy manufacturing what other people want to buy to think about stealing anything. The best part is that we'll need no further regulations. The Market (we, the buyers and sellers) will regulate the system quite nicely.

Excellent post!

I wish you would use it to start a new thread. These are the sort of threads that matter, because they are based on historical data, not trendy opinions based on ideological propaganda and disinformation.

Americans are so confused and polarized simply because they have lost account of history. History is our future. There IS NO future other than one based on history, because the educated thieves that are screwing us are using techniques that go back to ancient times.

Everything we are discussing has already been said. We found 4,000 year old Egyptian pictographs inside a pyramid which depicted political humor we use today in m21st century America.

The human mind never really changes, we just go through periods of inspiration and stupidity.

During the time of the colonies, Jefferson and Franklin, America was rising into its intellectual renaissance. In the 21st century it is intellectually stagnant and democracy is stiff in a cold morgue.

You people are so full of yourselves that you've condescended every principle of political and economic freedom for a repressive police state that has no respect for the Constitution.

The US in ruins because of greed and phoney wars that caused Arab and millionaires to divest in American companies for Chinese manufacturers.

The Constitution now hangs by a thread under a security state ideology as it did over the slavery issue. The economy is about to plunge into an abyss, from which it can never return. Study Japanese and Argentina economies.

This government is keeping you from what is happening because they can't stop it and they are profiting from it.

Wake up and take back your life!

Thank you for the kind words, maybe I'll write something to start a thread on it, but I've made similar comments on many threads and from the feedback I've gotten(excluding your own) most people seem to have the idea that we can't do anything to change the system. Its too hard, "they" won't let us.

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


I know it's a Republic.

And I accept i need to figure a lot out.

Let us look at the IRA Irish Replubilc Army.
Now look at just this one video.
Now ask yourself, Does this look familiar?
Could this be the guys with the (dont tread on me flag's)
Ask questions, but ask this question now, could this happen in America?

youtu.be...

reply to post by Frile


I live in Northern Indiana (Michiana, whatever)
I haven't heard a thing about this...
My inlaws live in southern Michigan, and I haven't heard them speak of
this either. (not saying it didn't happen)

but I think the govt. is a bit worried about the Michigan Militia.
didn't they just arrest a few of them last week?

reply to post by frazzle


Thank you for the kind words, maybe I'll write something to start a thread on it, but I've made similar comments on many threads and from the feedback I've gotten(excluding your own) most people seem to have the idea that we can't do anything to change the system. Its too hard, "they" won't let us.



I understand the enormity of the situation and the frustration people feel, because I am one of them.

The underlying cause of feeling that the system can't be changed is the lack of common knowledge in how it should work from a historical context. The average American doesn't have a basic knowledge of how America works now or in the past (built originally as a Republic with direct community involvement starting at the neighborhood level).

Most people have become so entrenched by the doctrine of individualism they don't even know their neighbors, let alone their Washington representatives.

This is just my opinion, but I used to become so over wrought with angst over how politicians and corporate benefactors were fleecing our economy. I finally realized that it was the voter who didn't understand or care about anything except his little materialistic microcosm. It seems that 'we the people' are lost in a universe that is within, in contrast to the physical reality that is without.

We live in a nation in which individual rights are being systemically compromised under a security initiative that is designed to support the status-quo (status-quo of the rich and powerful)

This is no different than what happened after the Soviet Bolshevik revolution, communist China and in dozens of dictatorial or totalitarian governments around the world. Security states may appear to be there to protect the public, but they always degenerate into thuggish mafias that maintain the interests of power politics.

What I find very difficult to accept, is that now that people are beginning to wake up, they are still standing there watching it happen. There was literally no support for the occupy movement. The media was allowed to portray them as a band of pot smoking hippies crapping on sidewalks. They were sprayed with mace, beaten with batons and thrown on the cold cement floors of warehouses. In court, they were encouraged to sign away their right to protest or spend time in jail.

When people say that the establishment won't allow them to make fundamental institutional changes, its just another piss poor excuse for not caring. The declaration of independence states that the people can fire and reform a totally new government if it appears to be headed toward "despotism". There are 360 million citizens who can organize and do whatever they want. This entire government can be dismantled and rebuilt from the ground up if that is what people want. Like anything else its a choice, and its not happening.

I really wonder what the American value system consists of other than self preservation. If people actually don't care, what kind of values do they have?

reply to post by g2v12

You quoted one sentence from my post?

Yes, I quoted one sentence from your post. I quoted the blatant contradiction, disingenuousness, and empty rhetoric of calling for a "balance" between a free market and regulation. I will say it again. There can be no regulation in a free and unregulated market.

"Deregulation" is not unregulation. You point to Freddie Mac and Fannie May had explicit guarantees from the federal government. Under a free and unregulated market no such guarantees would exist. It is really very simple. In a free market the government has no say in what business does.

There is the matter of the Commerce Clause in the Constitution for the United States of America which does grant Congress the power to regulate commerce between the states, but this interstate regulation was never intended to grant Congress the absurd and highly corrupted power they've assumed. It's intention was to prevent one state from undercutting prices and screwing the other states. Its only purpose was to normalize commerce on an interstate level. The purpose of the commerce clause is to promote trade not kill it.

Banks could not get away with any of the crap they get away with today under the cartelization of the banking system through the Federal Reserve. Cartels are not a product of a free market, they are antithetical to free markets, which again was the purpose of the commerce clause, to promote a free market not ensure its quick death so that cartels could thrive.

reply to post by g2v12


Most of us are frustrated by what we’re seeing and hearing and I certainly fit into that category, more now than ever before, because people are waking up, but they’re coming at the problems from so many different points of reference that its hard to get past the misinformation to even TALK with them about history and how that relates to the free market, taxes and regulations, etc. Keep in mind what I’m saying here is mostly about people I know in real life, but even though people like to vent about their personal problems, way to many of them just aren’t interested in history or law or how those problems came to be and their eyes roll back in their heads if you try to get them to understand how those problems relate to the bigger picture.

Some people would rather blame George Soros for everything and leave it at that. Ask around and you’ll learn just how many people think history began with the current administration and insist that our downfall is because Obama wasn’t born in the US. Heck, Joe Arpaio fits fairly well into that lately and he’s a SHERIFF, for crying out loud. For too many, anything that happened prior to G.W. Bush is ancient history and has nothing to do with today’s problems. And of course we can’t leave out the ones who are positive that we’re being invaded by aliens, whether from outer space or another country, all that matters is that “these outsiders” will be the end of us. Or its the Muslims, or the Russians, or the Chinese. But try to talk with them about the dangers of central banking and they’ll brag that their bank has never made an error on their account. I kid you not, that has been said to me on more than one occasion and it pretty much stopped me dead in my tracks. Where do you go from there?

But whatever people may think is wrong with the country, they mostly agree on one point: that it can’t be anything they did. It is not their fault! Even friends of long standing will ostracize you for suggesting that it just might be, at least in part, their fault because they voted for people they don’t know anything about beyond the campaign slogans and how good they look on TV. Anyway, hardly anybody I know wants any BIG changes made to the government other than maybe a switch of which party is in control, and never mind that it wasn’t all that long ago that the other party screwed things up for us and the rest of the world big time.

How can anyone overcome that kind of conditioning? Short of a 2 X 4 over the head, I mean.

I guess that’s why I prefer to spend time on ATS where there are people who understand there’s always more to the back story that we need to know and that if we don’t keep learning and figuring out how to change the direction we’re going with OUT any help from very unhelpful leaders, somebody will write our story’s ending, and all too soon.

So all I can conclude is that we need to get really creative in building bypasses to get around the road blocks that are in our way. And because I believe a fair and honest money system is the foundation of a fair and honest society, a couple of sensible bypasses (I think) would be alternative currencies and public banking.

www.time.com...

www.ecommercetimes.com...

www.ratical.org...

www.publicbankinginstitute.org...

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
Yes, I quoted one sentence from your post. I quoted the blatant contradiction, disingenuousness, and empty rhetoric of calling for a "balance" between a free market and regulation. I will say it again. There can be no regulation in a free and unregulated market.

What the hell would anyone want a completely free and unregulated market? Who in their right mind thinks Somalia or the days of Robber Barons is a model to strive toward?

reply to post by habitforming

What the hell would anyone want a completely free and unregulated market? Who in their right mind thinks Somalia or the days of Robber Barons is a model to strive toward?

In today's heavily regulated market place death by doctoring is the third leading cause of death for Americans. Government creates corporations in this heavily regulated market place and now the world has Monsanto, voted the most evil corporation in the world. Let's not even get into the list of banking crises,, and let's instead pretend, as you would have us do, that in this heavily regulated market place there are no more Robber Barons and we're a nation more sophisticated than "the free market of Somalia".

Sigh.

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by g2v12

 

You quoted one sentence from my post?

Yes, I quoted one sentence from your post. I quoted the blatant contradiction, disingenuousness, and empty rhetoric of calling for a "balance" between a free market and regulation. I will say it again. There can be no regulation in a free and unregulated market.

"Deregulation" is not unregulation. You point to Freddie Mac and Fannie May had explicit guarantees from the federal government. Under a free and unregulated market no such guarantees would exist. It is really very simple. In a free market the government has no say in what business does.

There is the matter of the Commerce Clause in the Constitution for the United States of America which does grant Congress the power to regulate commerce between the states, but this interstate regulation was never intended to grant Congress the absurd and highly corrupted power they've assumed. It's intention was to prevent one state from undercutting prices and screwing the other states. Its only purpose was to normalize commerce on an interstate level. The purpose of the commerce clause is to promote trade not kill it.

Banks could not get away with any of the crap they get away with today under the cartelization of the banking system through the Federal Reserve. Cartels are not a product of a free market, they are antithetical to free markets, which again was the purpose of the commerce clause, to promote a free market not ensure its quick death so that cartels could thrive.

Great, I see where you are going. The banking Cartel is certainly a corrupt manipulator of the precious metals markets. According to some good writers, the goal appears to be headed toward getting everything into a digital monetary system, where it can be more aptly controlled (manipulated).

This could happen if there were a global monetary and supply collapse, creating the disposition of having to regroup conjoined suppliers and manufactures under the current and fragmented globalism scheme.

I get your point about regulations, and failures occurred because the government didn't enforce its own safety policy attached to its guarantee. While I agree that the lawmakers have reared a monster son by essentially meddling with the balances of free marketing while over taxing it, I doubt that free market business can be properly conducted if it is not reigned in by opposing entities.

Bottom line for me, is that I am cynical when it comes to the free market "no-holds-barred" philosophy. Corporations are also melding in the nation's economic and political welfare, as this comes a military corporate complex that I really don't want to go into in this post. There are power plays from the security state level as well.

Perhaps the contradiction between the free market and government controls (among other factors) is what has led to much of the lobbying and buy outs of our Washington representatives.

Like yourself, I was a conservative right winger until H E Bush over-threw our precious constitution. I voted for Obama, because I saw him as someone who would attempt to reign in the military agenda and restore social funds which were diverted from health and educational programs to fund the oil for blood war.

reply to post by g2v12

I am not sure that free market business can be properly conducted if it is not reigned in by opposing entities.

I am glad you can see what it is I am trying to explain and advocate, and your concern here is noted. The thing about free markets is that massive competition sprouts which makes cartelization difficult.

please dont go shoot up a Mall, all thats going to do is help make gun control stronger. that makes prices go up on ammo. try the stealth aproach plan on going to work use cash instead of plastik stay out of the light.you cant fight the man with force there are to many...if every one went to work got off the plastic the all amercan way spend more than you have will only make you a slave buy a gun& blow your brains out..some of use are trying to feed our family i cant wate untill they go nuts ill get to set back in the woods and stop working for the man.and do a little more fishing & hunting your poodle will be good fryed...

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux

In today's heavily regulated market place death by doctoring is the third leading cause of death for Americans. Government creates corporations in this heavily regulated market place and now the world has Monsanto, voted the most evil corporation in the world.

Ok? What exactly is your point?

Let's not even get into the list of banking crises,,

That even your own link admits came about from deregulation?

and let's instead pretend, as you would have us do, that in this heavily regulated market place there are no more Robber Barons and we're a nation more sophisticated than "the free market of Somalia".

Sigh.

We are no more sophisticated than Somalia?

I honestly do not get your post. It refutes nothing and even agrees with me a little in an accusatory tone. Odd.

reply to post by habitforming

That even your own link admits came about from deregulation?

We are no more sophisticated than Somalia?

Thumbnail sketch:

Central banking existed in the US from the beginning with very little regulation, however after Jackson refused to renew the charter of the second central bank in 1836, they were either chartered by the various states, or given permission to operate without a charter under the so- called “free banking” laws. No banks were allowed to branch across state lines, and some states prohibited branching altogether. This prevented a natural system of nationwide clearinghouses from developing. www.thefreemanonline.org...

After tremendous pressure from the banking class and through panics fomented by financial gurus in1893 and 1907, congress was finally pushed to pass the federal reserve act in 1913, turning the United States banking system over to those private, for profit bankers, with no oversight and no transparency required.

It is no secret that in the years following 1913, major uprisings against the largest vulture capital corporations went into high gear and unions were formed to protect workers from hideous working conditions.

By 1930 the economy had been fairly well ruined by huge conglomerates and corporations which drove the country into a great depression.

So rather than revoking the federal reserve act and reverting back to free banking laws, which would have been the smart thing to do, in 1932 Glass Steagall was passed to regulate the bankers and vulture capital corporations.

Only one state, North Dakota, had already opened its own state bank in 1905. Since 2000, the state’s GNP has grown 56%, personal income has grown 43%, and wages have grown 34%. Every other state is broke. Why isn't North Dakota? Because the bank was set up to free farmers and small businessmen from the clutches of out-of-state bankers and railroad men and by law, the state must deposit all its funds in the bank, and the state guarantees its deposits. Prescient of them, was it not?

In 1999, Bill Clinton along with 155 democrats and 207 republicans in the house and by a narrow margin in the senate, revoked parts of the Glass Steagall Act, opening the flood gates again to large banks and conglomerates and here we are again, back in a depression. A year before the revocation of Glass Steagall, Citicorp, a commercial bank holding company merged with the insurance company Travelers Group to form the Citigroup. This was against the law under Glass Steagall, but the federal reserve gave them a waiver. Did small companies get any waivers?

Well no. Millions of small to medium sized businesses as well as individuals have been driven into bankruptcy by the vampires of finance since 1999. I doubt if anyone even knows how many millions. And we’re sinking faster every day into the final bankruptcy. Its not because of not having enough regulations, its because the banks are FREE to plunder, BY LAW.

Also, keep in mind that until the federal reserve was created, there were no world wars.

So its beginning to look like being a pirate like a Somali might be the logical career choice in coming years. It’s about the only free market left on earth.

Originally posted by frazzle
So its beginning to look like being a pirate like a Somali might be the logical career choice in coming years. It’s about the only free market left on earth.

When you post that # from Somalia then you might have something. I am so sick of you cowards sitting at your safe desks ranting on and on about how you want No government yet not a damn one of you will get up off your ass and just go to a place already like that. For some reason you stay right where you are and bitch about it.