It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

The American People Are Angry!

page: 11
87
<< 8  9  10    12  13  14 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 03:51 PM
link   
reply to post by jude11
 


BRAVO!!!! Well said and this needs to be shouted from the rooftops.




posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 03:52 PM
link   
reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 


I get what you are saying. You are saying we should do what the Incas did and just quit. With the Incas you had a society that had went on for 800 years. There was no money. Incas were dependent on the government for food and for that food they did work for the government. At one point they all said "Screw it" and left the cities and moved into the jungle to live. It was later they tried again with the Mayas and then the Aztecs. But before that they got sick of it all and just quit.

We should do it too. All of us just quit. Quit participating and do as we please. Good idea. You first.



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 03:53 PM
link   

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by Zngland
 


A MARKET is just a venue where buyers and sellers meet and exchange freely.

There is nothing free about it, and just like our liberty, it must be maintained with constant vigil.



Ok, but it's integral to liberty, and since liberty is as important as oxygen hopefully the cost of constant vigilance will decrease overtime as sense permeates and becomes the norm.

The 'Free' bit just allows you to refuse a offer .



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 04:11 PM
link   

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by frazzle
 


Perhaps I misunderstood you. Sounds like you are talking about S&Ls.

Anyway you slice it, the banking system only works with sound regulation.0


Why can't they just fail , just like every 'poorly' run business.



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 04:15 PM
link   
post removed for serious violation of ATS Terms & Conditions



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 04:33 PM
link   

Originally posted by Zngland

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by frazzle
 


Perhaps I misunderstood you. Sounds like you are talking about S&Ls.

Anyway you slice it, the banking system only works with sound regulation.0


Why can't they just fail , just like every 'poorly' run business.


Just throwing in my two cents on this question. Banks can't be allowed to fail because they ARE business and they ARE government. Without the banks, everything would stop dead in its tracks, including government at all levels. Not that I think that's necessarily a bad idea, even though our access to water, power, gas, food, etc. would also stop because its mostly federal and/or corporate money that keeps those things slugging along.

Together, the banks and government have made us utterly dependent on their "services" and I worry that any move toward a real revolution, or even a soft revolt would be an open invitation for them to show us exactly how dependent we are. The flip of a few switches, a few computer "glitches" and we'd be shut down and most of us haven't even considered that, much less made preparations for it.

The first thing we have to figure out, IMO, is how to become independent of money and managers from all walks of life and learn how to provide at least the basic necessities on our own or together on a local basis.

[/rant]



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 04:43 PM
link   

Originally posted by frazzle

Originally posted by Zngland

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by frazzle
 


Perhaps I misunderstood you. Sounds like you are talking about S&Ls.

Anyway you slice it, the banking system only works with sound regulation.0


Why can't they just fail , just like every 'poorly' run business.


Just throwing in my two cents on this question. Banks can't be allowed to fail because they ARE business and they ARE government. Without the banks, everything would stop dead in its tracks, including government at all levels. Not that I think that's necessarily a bad idea, even though our access to water, power, gas, food, etc. would also stop because its mostly federal and/or corporate money that keeps those things slugging along.

Together, the banks and government have made us utterly dependent on their "services" and I worry that any move toward a real revolution, or even a soft revolt would be an open invitation for them to show us exactly how dependent we are. The flip of a few switches, a few computer "glitches" and we'd be shut down and most of us haven't even considered that, much less made preparations for it.

The first thing we have to figure out, IMO, is how to become independent of money and managers from all walks of life and learn how to provide at least the basic necessities on our own or together on a local basis.

[/rant]



If they(banks) are just govt why do we pay interest on govt bonds , why not just control our own money .

Also if the banking system held everyone at ransom and everyone figured such, then commerce would adjust
while gibbet production went viral.


Ultimately we the people together are a unstoppable force , but our majority ignorance, lazyness, lack of critical thinking , fearfulness , keeps us as a whole subordinate to the 'capital holders' who unless criminal are free to deploy , enjoy their wealth just like everyone else.
edit on 1-7-2012 by Zngland because: add a thought



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 04:46 PM
link   

Originally posted by TechUnique
Its about time for an overthrow no?


To what?, install the communist government you think will work better?.
Give me a break.



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 04:49 PM
link   
Sigh.

The American people are angry not because of Wall Street greed, but because of all the greed within ourselves we immorally choose to ignore. We have all been demoralized, which means there is no common sense. When there are no shared morals, what demoralized actually means, common sense can't exist. The idea of American individualism has been skewed, and there's very few who recognize that as the issue. I'm afraid millions will die, both here and abroad, for justice will be served. I fear for my country, my people, and this world because I do believe that justice is true. We are all guilty of what makes us angry, and ignorance to that fact will not be anyone's salvation, it will only mean more suffering when that rule of justice is handed down. And no, I don't believe it will be God's justice, we will judge and punish ourselves. Hell, we already are, this is what societies turn into when justice is levied. It's why things suck right now, we are being dealt justice and the prescription is only going to become a higher and higher dosage

Whether we face it or not, our society, from bottom to top, is corrupted and immoral. From the bum on the street and the single mother suckling her five children off the welfare dime, to the salaried manager of a call center monitoring the bathroom breaks of his staff and the teller at the bank cashing a buddy's check known to be fraudulent, to the CEO of GE making sweetheart deals under the cover of saving the planet and the Department of Justice Attorney General illegally running guns to subvert the rights of the people, from the American Idol ignorants to the AboveTopSecret conspiratorialists, we have immorality and corruption at every level spurred by egotistical "I know it better than them" mentality. We are broken and demoralized at every level. We are all jumping off into the abyss, and no one will acknowledge that to themselves. We are all fallen. We need to stop pointing our fingers at others and start holding our thumbs at ourselves.

As time goes on with out a recognition of this, we will only be more blind to this truth and when justice strikes it will only hurt more. Make no mistake, hurt, a great hurt, is coming. Will we fend for our own prerogatives, or will we make the individual decision to sacrifice for our neighbor? Will we require that our ruling class structure fix it for us, or will we show each other that we the people can do it ourselves? Will we hand over money and time to those who need our help, or will we ignore them and have our governments do it for us?

These are the sides. Slaves or free men. Neither is wrong, the only thing wrong is lying to ourselves that this decision can be avoided or doesn't exist. Freedom isn't a big house and a fast car, and slavery isn't chains and shackles on a plantation.

If there's anyone with an attention span left that can watch a video that has no tits, dying, or jokes within it's frames, only truth, watch the following video. It's 81 minutes of the truth of how we got here, and why we as the masses are too indoctrinated to see the truth. You have been demoralized Neo. The Matrix is your state of mind. It's real, it's true, the only thing you have to decide on is the red or blue pill.



Yuri Alexandrovich Bezmenov (Russian: Юрий Безменов, also known as Tomas David Schuman; 1939 – 1993[1]) was a journalist for RIA Novosti and a former KGB informant from the Soviet Union who defected to Canada.

I'm not saying the Soviet's are responsible for this, with the amount of useful idiots right here at home, the Soviet's didn't need to force it on us. But the tactics and tools are the same. And after all, the Russian's did it to themselves, why would we think we wouldn't? Wake up Neo.


edit on 1-7-2012 by GenerationGap because: Grammar Fixes, likely more to come..

edit on 1-7-2012 by GenerationGap because: Fixing video link.



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 04:51 PM
link   
reply to post by Zngland
 



If they(banks) are just govt why do we pay interest on govt bonds , why not just control our own money .


Exactly. Public banking or alternative currencies!!!
money.cnn.com...


Also if the banking system held everyone at ransom and everyone figured such, then commerce would adjust
while gibbet production went viral.


ROTFL. Good one. I like it.



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 04:56 PM
link   
You fall for this and you are Gullible.

Only just now this man sees what is happening and speeks out.
he is just jumping on the band wagon.
he is using your anger!



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 04:58 PM
link   

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by Ookie
 


You don't "get" a thing, jungle boy. Refusing to acquiesce to tyranny is not "quitting". It is a strong action taken against tyranny refusing to surrender ones rights just to go along to get along. Of course, that you "get", don't you? What you don't "get" is that smarmy jungle analogies only play with sycophants of tyranny. Sure, there are plenty of you sycophants, but ineffectual ass kissing of tyranny is hardly a threat to those who cherish their rights and hold great disdain for bureaucrats...get it?




edit on 1-7-2012 by Jean Paul Zodeaux because: (no reason given)


Jean, spell it out. Seriously. Pretend everyone here needs to have whatever you are saying at a 7th grade reading level.

Exactly what do you think people should do?

Refuse to pay taxes? Refuse to follow along with things that the federal and/or local governments require of them? (IE pay for car registrations, car insurance, just drive the car without any license, refuse to file federal or state income taxes, etc).

I'm very curious as to what it is you expect people to do. You have said several times for people to stop accepting, playing along or submitting to "Tyranny", and the only thing that I can see that you are suggesting is the things I mentioned just above there.

Am I correct, or are you trying to allude to something else?



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 05:02 PM
link   
Well at least they act concerned.



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 05:04 PM
link   

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
reply to post by jude11
 


This speech was easily on par with some of the best Ron Paul speeches. This man really understands the reality of the situation in America. He has the balls to dive into many touchy topics which politicians hardly ever get into. He covers 3 very important subjects which hardly ever get mentioned in the mainstream... those 3 subjects being:

- bail out of wallstreet with tax payer money
- $16 trillion in secret loans released by the Fed
- unbelievably inequal distribution of wealth

This is honestly one of the most important videos I've ever seen and this should be compulsory viewing for all Americans. And he is absolutely right, we shouldn't be attacking the sick and the poor to help reconcile deficit spending. In fact if you look at some of their proposed cuts they are like 0.1% of the total deficit spending.

But I don't necessarily agree with trying to tax the rich more... they will just leave America and try every trick in the book before they let their money be taken from their cold dead hands. And the wealth will simply flow right back to them anyway. Of course we should make them pay fairer tax rates and remove the loop holes, but the solution is not solely in taxing the rich.

The solution is in actually reducing the deficit spending instead of trying to rob the citizens to pay for all of it. All these big government operations need to be culled back... defense spending is out of control and there are illegal wars being waged without legitimate congressional approval. The Federal Reserve is also constantly undermining the economy by printing money like it has gone out of fashion.

The simple fact is the US Government cannot afford to keep operating the way it has been operating over the last few decades, the debt is quickly catching up and before long the storm is going to hit, and it's going to hit hard. This reckless uncontrolled spending cannot go on forever, and they are deluding themselves by believing it can.
edit on 1/7/2012 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)


He is right about the income disparity, but he is completely wrong about the debt and deficit.

This video should not be promoted because he gets several facts very wrong. He claims we can make the deficit problem go away simply by taxing the rich more. This is 100% completely FALSE. He claims the Bush wars got us into our debt problems, while they contributed they are not even 20% of the problem. We could and should cut defense spending to the bone and increase taxes on the wealthy but those two things would barely cover half the deficit.

Major spending cuts on social programs is required whether Sanders or anyone else doesn't like it - it is math and it can't be wished away. Our medical costs are TWICE per capita of the rest of the world and rising in cost 9% a year. Until the medical system is reformed it is literally impossible to balance the budget without large cuts.
edit on 1-7-2012 by proximo because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 05:29 PM
link   
reply to post by eriktheawful
 


I am doing my level best to spell it out, and when I was in the 7th grade I had no problems understanding the simple concepts I am advocating here. Of course, in the 9th grade I had a business economics class where we were taught to fill out a valid tax return. It did not occur to me then that at no point did that teacher speak of liability and who is subject to the applicable revenue laws and merely treated it as if anyone who earns income is necessarily subject to the applicable revenue laws and therefore liable for the so called "income tax".

It wasn't until I was in college, when I took a government class and that professor spent what seemed to be an inordinate amount of time stressing the importance of our own signatures on government contracts. I really didn't understand completely what he was saying until I filed a valid tax return that year. Of course, I didn't understand the tax code or filing procedures, so I used an accountant at H&R Block. It was the moment he handed me the return and said: "Okay, now all I need is your John Hancock and we're good to go."

For the first time in my young life I finally read what I was signing. What I was signing was that all the of the above was - to the best of my knowledge - true and correct, and most importantly what I realized was that I was singing this under penalty of perjury. How could I possibly sign under penalty of perjury that all of the above - to the best of my knowledge - was true and correct? I was, after all, turning to a "certified public accountant" to figure that mess out! That CPA was none to happy with my questions, and his ultimate declaration: "Look, I don't want to have a Constitutional debate with you!" was only the first of a long line of people who would inexplicably make that remark in spite of the fact that I had never even brought up the Constitution.

Thus began my long and arduous journey down the rabbit hole in an attempt to learn and understand the tax code. I can confidently say, that after years of learning the law, legalese, and principles of Constitutional taxation, I still do not understand the tax code. What I do understand is the law. I know this: I cannot be compelled against my will to sign under penalty of perjury that I understand something that no one else does.

So, you ask me if you should refuse to pay taxes, and I answer no you should not refuse to pay the taxes you owe. Congress most assuredly has the complete and plenary power of taxation and if you owe a tax, you should pay it. However, if you do not owe a tax, should you pay that? You don't need me to spell that out for you, do you? If your landlord came to you in February and pointed out that you still owed a months rent for the previous year, but you had all twelve receipts for that previous year and showed him that to prove you were paid up, but your landlord answered: "Yes, but you still owe me for the thirteenth month", would you hand him over rent for that thirteenth month?

If your landlord, after you laughing in his face and assuring him you would not pay rent for any thirteenth month then came along with some of his henchmen and warned you that if you did not pay the rent he would forcefully take it from you, would you then pay the rent for the thirteenth month, or would you stop laughing in his face and get goddamned serious about the thuggery you were confronted with?

You speak of "car registrations, car insurance, and licenses to drive" but are you aware that a license is a grant of permission to do something that would otherwise be illegal? Is driving an automobile illegal or is just simply driving without a license illegal? Same thing you might say? Not the same thing at all. It is a priest class lawyer game of tautology and it is they playing the games of semantics, not I. All states bind themselves to the federal Constitution. That federal Constitution comes with a 9th Amendment that prohibits government from denying and or disparaging rights that have not been enumerated. Several states have a Constitution that echoes this profound principle of law.

Do you have a right to drive? Every state declares you do not and that driving is a privilege, but whence came that lawful authority to make such a declaration? Who gave them that power? Who holds the inherent political power in this country, or in the state you live? Why the People do! Who signed that drivers license application? Who surrendered their bill of sale for their car and signed a contract to exchange that bill of sale for a title of registration? Why you did! You, who have the inherent political power to authorize the state to turn your right of driving into a state granted privilege.

Do you understand?




edit on 1-7-2012 by Jean Paul Zodeaux because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 05:30 PM
link   
I've posted this before, but what the hell, I'll post it again - the one sure-fire way to shut that moneyed class rule for good. It requires a focused marketing effort, and the appearance of widespread support, and that may be the hardest part to actually accomplish, given the fact of how hard some people will work for just enough money to scrape by on when they've been squeezed long enough. Hell, you can see that kind of desperate devotion to an obvious self-damaging lie right here on this site, right in this very forum, so it's not like I'm springing anything new on anyone.

That said, here's the one and only way to shut the corporates and their political henchmen down forever.

Research and find the one conglomerate that can be vilified the easiest, while having plenty of competition for all of its various product lines in the easily accessed marketplace. It takes doing an org chart, and you'll need pre-2005 market data since running down who-owns-who got a lot harder after Bush got re-elected, but it's not impossible. Establish this large corporation and every one of its subsidiaries as the target, work up the list of violations (could be outsourcing American jobs to China and India, destructive speculation within a hedge-fund operation, bankster activity, healthcare insurance villainy, or DU weaponry development...shouldn't be hard to determine) and declare that this corporate entity is to be eliminated by way of a disciplined boycott of all their products and the migration of all investments from stocks and/or banking accounts where applicable.

Next, begin the marketing effort to sell this shutdown across the middleclass and working class of the US, since this is the largest manageable demographic that buys the most of whatever it is that anyone in business sells. Promote the competitor products and services and make sure that the public is 100% informed as to what is happening (a public corporate execution) and why it is happening (to take our country back from Big Business and the moneyed elite). The OWS thing was widely admired by average working class people, and even the cops in most cities were very decent to those kids, and it was because they were trying to do something good for them and it was appreciated. This effort is something that those middle and working class people can be a part of by simply not buying a very specific range of product brands, and choosing the next brand instead.

Promote and promote and promote what is being done and why, and as the stock prices fall, promote that as winning (people love to win).

It shouldn't take more than six months to completely crater the entire company, and the jobs lost will have been mostly Chinese or Indian or Malaysian. The C-Level and SrVP execs should be named and tracked after they've lost their jobs, and if they're snapped up by other companies before 1 full year of "time out" those companies should be publicly noted to everyone who shared in the defeat of that targeted company. Let them figure out how to "reward" them for violating the de facto ban on hiring them during that cooling off period.

When it finally shuts its doors, the organized movement should advertise the requirements for all other multi-national corporations if they want to avoid being next in line. Nothing abusive. Just being normal community citizens who care about our American society and its citizens. They'll know what to do to avoid being next to die, believe me.

There is nothing illegal about marketing against a company or product, and nothing illegal about organizing people to not buy something that is being sold. The Wall St. wolves will probably kill off that entire corporation long before six months if the marketing campaign is properly managed. Those freaks eat their own every single day.

This very defined process will make the most powerful elitists shake under their covers, and we'll have established exactly why it's crazy for a commercial enterprise to piss off its customer base. It would work, and even if only 50% of the company's customer base participates - as long as the marketing campaign is aggressive.

There. That's what will change everything.



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 05:43 PM
link   
 


off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 06:33 PM
link   
reply to post by jude11
 


Any politician could have made this speech.

The question is, what would Bernie Sanders, the "Democratic Socialist" do about it? I'm sure his answer involves some sort of Robin Hood-like thievery, where the earned wealth of the hard working and successful gets stolen and given to those who did not earn it, because they have managed to engage the greatest thug on the planet, Government, to rob it, all in the name of "fairness", "economic justice", or some other feel-good collections of words that cloaks the concept of outright theft.

It's a popular idea, but that doesn't make it right.



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 07:03 PM
link   
reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 


Thank you very much for your reply.

I've been filing my own taxes since 1985. I pay what the federal and state government say that I owe each year, according to their tax lists. Of course when I get paid, all the taxes are already removed automatically from my paycheck: Federal, State, Social Security, etc.

In my state we also pay property tax on land, houses, vehicles, boats, all sorts of neat things that you might own and have a title in your name.
Failure to pay these taxes results in all sorts of different things. For your car, you license tag will not be renewed. After a certain amount of time if you still have not paid it, your actual drivers license will be suspended.
For a house, go long enough without paying the property tax (who's amount will increase over time for failure to pay on time) and after enough time failure to pay will result in county deputy sheriffs along with the county tax assessor on your door step with a court order informing you that your property is no longer yours and now belongs to the county and state, along with an eviction notice. Failure to leave at that point will result in being cuffed and taken to jail.

Sales Tax. We have this one too. About the only way to avoid paying this one is to purchase things from a friend who happens to be selling stuff, or from some produce stand out on the road. If you go to any business and refuse to pay said sales tax as part of your total, your transaction is canceled and you'll be escorted out the door.
Certain sales tax is added up and doesn't even show on some receipts like gasoline purchases.

Now, from what I've read, you've stated that we need to pay taxes that we owe, but nothing more. Okay, sure. Many of us do just that.......or at least that is what we think we are doing because we are being told that is what we owe.
If I think I'm paying taxes that I don't owe....well the problem then is that for a multitude of people, our taxes have already been taking out of our paychecks, either by an outside company that does the payroll or by the business you are employed at. Most employers will balk at being told you do not want to get paid that way, and will then kindly point to the door. Which I suppose people could do, quit their jobs and hope to find someone that pays in cash only (lots of landscaping people do just that: get paid in cash).

As for the drivers license thing: sure I could just jump in a car, no tag, no registration, no insurance and just go for a drive.
But I certainly won't do that because I know what will happen to me if I did: hauled off to do jail time. Because even if I didn't get sent to jail, I'd get fined, and if I fail to pay the fine, a bench warrant is issued and they will come knocking on your door for you (been there, done that, thanks to an ex wife that forgot to send the check in for me.....was one of the worst afternoons I've ever had).

So how do we change all this? That is what I'm getting at.

People have said that we should vote new people in to change all this, and you said that won't work because people don't want the change and will just go with the flow, that voting won't work.

People have said to jump up and have a revolution or rebellion, and you've said that won't work or change anything because again, people will just go along with the flow.

You've just now said: pay the taxes you owe, but don't pay more than you should, but you've not said how someone is suppose to do this (unless the people themselves should decide what it is that they owe, but again, how do they go about that?).

You've said that you need a divers license because people have let this happened, by agreeing to it in the first place.

What I'm getting at is: you've said what the problem is, but I still am not seeing a solution presented.

So either I'm extremely dense, or I have missed something that you said somewhere.



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 07:08 PM
link   
reply to post by jude11
 


One of the biggest problems facing us is we invest so much into the man not the message. Both sides of the isle do it. When we get past this and focus on the message we will truly have change for the good or bad.



Everyone always wonder why don't people wake up this is the real reason.



new topics

top topics



 
87
<< 8  9  10    12  13  14 >>

log in

join