Bhagavad.Gita.Questions

Firstly, I'm aware that the BG is a story and may or may not have actually happened. Krshna tells Arjuna the main or only difference between them is that He can remember all of his lives.
One of my questions is with their belief in infinite cyclical time, how can Krshna ( who had to come through a womb) remember forward and backwards in time and still have the desire to manifest physically and make choices? What is the Agenda? ....what about remembering. These infinite amount of lives ( that concept is hard to grasp) grants this being God status?

The personification of the supreme atman or the godhead ; Krshna is trying hard to give knowledge to his friend Arjuna: primordial archetype of the student. And if I understand it right this relationship between Krshna and Arjuna are repeated throughout time.

And alot of scholars dedicate lifetimes trying to invoke krshna-consciousness or God-consciousness, but is it even possible to fully comprehend what the Creator with a human mind? Or what the Atman is?

I guess that's what thinking with your heart is about.

Krshna has to give Arjuna sight to understand His true form. He stresses the point that Atman is immortal and our realm is fake therefore don't mourn for the dead or the living. Pain and suffering is caused by this endless cycle of attachment and since death is inevitable one should spend a lifetime preparing for it...(whatever that means) so we can break free of this cycle.

I hear all the time we incarnated hear by choice. I feel we were brought here against our will. If we are part and parcel of the supreme atman, why would we leave that place of union and perfection and order? Is existence at the top so boring that the Creator must torture himself to evolve? Or is our plight here so insignificant that we just an itch on the creators ass

reply to post by EarthWanderer

I hope you liked that most excellent book. I view Krishna as an
Avatar of Vishnu the highest Godhead in Hindu Pantheon. Even myself was not born
as a Hindu I accepted Krishna as Godhead after turmoil
in my personal life, before that I was an atheist.

For someone to become called avatar he has to be full with all six opulence's,
namely wealth, power, fame, beauty, knowledge and renunciation.
As told in Srimad-Bhagavatam he displayed them all. It is up to you to believe it or not.

Your post touches so many differing aspects it could take a philosopher, a mystic, and a priest many years to penetrate them, and, make it so we can easily understand it.
I think this is what the BG is, our best possible chance of understanding a knowledge so ancient it is No longer regarded as being the truth by modern minds.
The lifes preparation is for your death, in the existence afterwards your soul will want to return to what it understands, where it feels there is a place for it, this place is the font of suffering, your life should be a preparation in learning how to let go, to not want to return to those things you find comforting or "Usual", only in doing this will you actually be able to return of your own free will onto the next stage of your progress, the return to the source of love.

The Escape from "Samsara" is a lifetimes preparation, and a heartfelt realisation of the truth in action.

I stress topics like these bc it is my philosophy that one's belief (spiritually and physically) drastically changes ones ways of life; I would also argue it can be the foundation for the mind and body. I.e. Some one who believe afterlife is very different from those who don't. I would also argue that the man or woman who does not believe after life are typically less happy, more stress, anxious etc.

reply to post by Karmayogi11


Thank you karma yogi, that made sense.

reply to post by EarthWanderer


One thing an Enlightened being can't experience is loneliness and separation - the desire to understand that could have led to the creation of the human experience. So we are not simply an itch, we are an amazing experience that will lead back to pure connection when our little game is over.

reply to post by EarthWanderer

Its OK... Look I studied BG and Srimad-Bhagavatam for myself without joining
any particular group. I have a lot of attachment for my family and kids
so giving up material life isn't that easy. But I think you can be with any Religion
on earth and if you not develop real friendship with the Godhead you are just wasting your time.

Of course it is not that the almighty Godhead will come down and Smalltalk with you
but you will notice the change by just being respectful with all beings.

I am not preaching or something I don't want you to take this in that way.
Diversity is a good thing and tolerance is better.

I wish you peace in your path

Originally posted by Thermo Klein
reply to post by EarthWanderer

 

One thing an Enlightened being can't experience is loneliness and separation - the desire to understand that could have led to the creation of the human experience. So we are not simply an itch, we are an amazing experience that will lead back to pure connection when our little game is over.

From my experiance: both yes and no on the loneliness and separation. You can be the Hermit as human and at the same time feel the otherside. A bittesweet loneliness where you are connected to the other side and cradeled in love but the connection is lacking some of the human quality of being able to respond in the same way and see and touch the other side. The only thing you can do is send loving thoughts and hope they like it.

You cant always be connected to other humans as much as you want to since you can become very different and they will have a hard time dealing with what you have experianced.

tAKiDA - Never Alone Always Alone (lyrics)


Need is the key from my point of view. When you are ready and extreme need arrive then answers are recived.

Op. You are not the sum of your mind and experiences of only this life. Your spririt in the unconcious is pushing your mind depending on how much you can silence the ego. Sometimes talking without thinking can make you hear thruths from within that your mind did not know. Spirit over mind over body.

reply to post by EarthWanderer

He stresses the point that ... and our realm is fake ...

No such thing is said in the Bhagavad Gita.

Originally posted by Karmayogi11
reply to post by EarthWanderer

 

Its OK... Look I studied BG and Srimad-Bhagavatam for myself without joining
any particular group. I have a lot of attachment for my family and kids
so giving up material life isn't that easy. But I think you can be with any Religion
on earth and if you not develop real friendship with the Godhead you are just wasting your time.

Of course it is not that the almighty Godhead will come down and Smalltalk with you
but you will notice the change by just being respectful with all beings.

I am not preaching or something I don't want you to take this in that way.
Diversity is a good thing and tolerance is better.

I wish you peace in your path

I have found that imposing upon yourself the giving up of worldly things is opposite to the designed order.

Upon the Presence showing through the open Door, all worldy things no longer have any luster. You do not surrender all things to get to the Communion, it is the Communion that causes all things to dissolve and fade away. Absolutely everything is "sacrificed". Every religion is gone for you but you see the Path leading to the Communion hidden in them all of them that you didn't see before.

There is no choice, there is no off switch, there is no bridge to go back over to those worldy things. You wouldn't have it any other way as you dwell in constant awe constantly working to not "stare". (Nothing to do with electromagnetic frequencies in the visible light band)

reply to post by D1ss1dent


Bhagavad Gita, Ch. 18, Verse 61:

Arjuna, God abides in the heart of all creatures, causing them to revolve according to their Karma by His illusive power (Māyā) as though mounted on a machine

what is your definition of real?

it hints that this duality is fake. the field and the knower of the field. I feel Nassim Harameins work fits w hindu philosophy . No two atoms ever touch or they would fuse.

Ifeel like God is the ultimate illusionist and paradox's fuel the illusion and our veil of forgetfulness. If consciousness collapses light waves into particle - then similar to how we grant realness to a dream- in some strange way a greater observer is sustaining our universe...which can be trillions of years to us and moments to the watcher.

If the body of the godhead is our physical world - lets call it the omniverse- only void can exist outside unless this too is part of the body.

Anyway...my main question: Is it possible for Source to have an origin?? If so, can he remember it since Krshna states he remembers all? Does he know where hes going? What is the ' endgame' so to speak? What is the universe doing?

In a sense...Is God evolving (maybe higher octaves of perfection)?

I heard once from an abrahamic student this strife is a catalyst to produce perfect humans or infinitely better humans ...very hermetic sounding. The Great Work feels very real - our current world situation is perfect in that sense. Its almost funny.

reply to post by apushforenlightment


very nice song

reply to post by tkwasny


there is much truth in your words friend.

Krishna says "there was never a time when you, me and the kings have not existed" whether krishna was womb born or not doesnt matter, he remembers the unborn Self.

Excellent, I would love to see more discussions of Bhagavad-Gita and other tenets of Hinduism. Like Karmayogi, I too was an atheist turned Arjuna-warrior. Don't let my ATS name fool you. I am not a buddhist. It is just a play on words with Narcoleptic.

OP, here's my take on it all: Who says there has to be a purpose? Who says there are rules to this game in the physical? We are merely actors and audience participating on God's stage. Do so with joy!

Our experience here is really what we make of it. We are like guests in someone's home. Do not complain. Just sit back, bide your time, mind your manners, and add to the joy of the experience for our gracious host.

It is only difficult if we make it difficult. There can be a lot to understand and learn through cognition and pondering what the words of the Gita are exactly trying to tell us. The Gita and all scriptures are just a sign post that points us in the right direction. However, the journey is one we must take alone. We can keep coming back to that sign post if we get lost.

Cognition pales in comparison to the action of the physical (karmic) plane. Action is simply doing. We can think over and over about what righteousness is. Just do it and there are no other qualms to be had about it. After all, an actor must do his part, right? We must be good guests in this host's home. How do you know what righteousness is? Pray and ask for guidance..meditate and listen. As a seed has the intelligence to grow and bloom, so have we the intelligence seeded within us to grow and bloom. All is a reflection of itself. And looking within through meditation, we see the reflection of all that is "out there". When you set aside personal desire, knowing what is right couldn't be easier..extinguishing the desire is the difficult part

Renounce and enjoy. The two words that summarize Hinduism.

Sometimes trying to find a deeper purpose or meaning just detracts from the fact that there doesn't have to be one! Just renounce this personal (albeit burning!) desire and enjoy. The show gets more interesting after you do this and you'll find yourself in a bigger role than before. The Divine director will recognize and use your talents accordingly.

Hope this helps. I am not an expert on Hinduism or philosophy or scripture. I am a wannabe-yogi by whatever name you choose. We are all seekers in one way or another at different stages of the path back home.

Jai Krishna

reply to post by NarcolepticBuddha


Wise words , Im glad wise ppl have a place to congregate and discuss. Im very satisfied with your answer NB, it resonates w me and ive always felt this way.

I grew up catholic until i saw zeitgeist. Ifelt like i was broken free from a trance (5 yrs ago) and it messed me up bc i had no protection against spmething like that. I had to build a new spiritual foundation slowly. Now I see the universe differently
Renounce and enjoy, i like that. Very appropriate

reply to post by EarthWanderer


Well, I'm very glad you see the wisdom in my answer Honestly, most people get annoyed when I give this answer. They see it as a way to avoid their questions and to conveniently dismiss the issues.

I once asked for "the answer" and meditated for many, many hours in the dark of night before falling asleep and being given an answer through my dream. We are guests in someone else's home. They want us to be happy and comfortable as possible. The "games" they try to entertain us with may seem strange and foreign..the rules and objective unclear...but the objective is to have fun while we're here.

That's all

I've read and heard by a few gurus before that the answers we seek are only going to disappoint us because of their simplicity when we expect something complicated and grandiose..

Originally posted by NarcolepticBuddha
reply to post by EarthWanderer

 

Well, I'm very glad you see the wisdom in my answer

Honestly, most people get annoyed when I give this answer. They see it as a way to avoid their questions and to conveniently dismiss the issues.

I once asked for "the answer" and meditated for many, many hours in the dark of night before falling asleep and being given an answer through my dream. We are guests in someone else's home. They want us to be happy and comfortable as possible. The "games" they try to entertain us with may seem strange and foreign..the rules and objective unclear...but the objective is to have fun while we're here.

That's all

I've read and heard by a few gurus before that the answers we seek are only going to disappoint us because of their simplicity when we expect something complicated and grandiose..

edit on 1-7-2012 by NarcolepticBuddha because: (no reason given)

Simple the answers might be but the complexity the universe builds from simple is amazing. If you want complicated then figure out exactly how the world would have evolved without you being born and doing things that affected the whole creation. If they want complicated then they can start thinking of lifes as threads and try to understand the pattern the lifethreads are making now. What happened needed to happen, what is needs to be for what will be to become.

reply to post by EarthWanderer

Firstly, I'm aware that the BG is a story and may or may not have actually happened.
# It happened 5000+ years ago, it was documented historically #

Krshna tells Arjuna the main or only difference between them is that He can remember all of his lives.
# Not the only difference, but one of an infinite number of them #

One of my questions is with their belief in infinite cyclical time, how can Krshna ( who had to come through a womb) remember forward and backwards in time and still have the desire to manifest physically and make choices? What is the Agenda? ....what about remembering. These infinite amount of lives ( that concept is hard to grasp) grants this being God status?
# Krsna being the Supreme, can do anything #
# Krsna never really born, just like the sun never really born every day: He just manifests Himself #
# His agenda is to re-establish religious principles that were lost #
# Krsna doesn't have many lives but just one eternal and supreme existence #

The personification of the supreme atman or the godhead ; Krshna is trying hard to give knowledge to his friend Arjuna: primordial archetype of the student. And if I understand it right this relationship between Krshna and Arjuna are repeated throughout time.
# Arjuna is one of the eternal associates o God and is full of all godly opulences, so Krsna puts him in ignorance for a while to recreate this pastime #

And alot of scholars dedicate lifetimes trying to invoke krshna-consciousness or God-consciousness, but is it even possible to fully comprehend what the Creator with a human mind? Or what the Atman is?
# God never possesses a "human" mind nor the Soul or Jiva - Both are full of knowledge, bliss and eternity #
# Human mind is a product of material nature #

I guess that's what thinking with your heart is about.

Krshna has to give Arjuna sight to understand His true form. He stresses the point that Atman is immortal and our realm is fake therefore don't mourn for the dead or the living.
# our realm (material nature) is eternally cyclical and not a fake #

Pain and suffering is caused by this endless cycle of attachment and since death is inevitable one should spend a lifetime preparing for it...(whatever that means) so we can break free of this cycle.
# By becoming God conscious in full, the soul never reborns in this material creation #

I hear all the time we incarnated hear by choice. I feel we were brought here against our will. If we are part and parcel of the supreme atman, why would we leave that place of union and perfection and order?
# Because we want to become independent from Krsna or God or even take His place =) #
# Material creation exist so that Krsna can manifest one of His greatest opulences: Compassion "Karuna" #

Is existence at the top so boring that the Creator must torture himself to evolve? Or is our plight here so insignificant that we just an itch on the creators ass
# The Spiritual Realm is everything but boring #
# God doesn't evolve, He has everything opulences in full #
# Every Soul (animals and vegetables included) has a infinite importance to Krsna. Krsna wants us to realize that #
I hope to have helped. best regards to all.

I read it in high school, a nice leather bound copy I got for free from the Khrisnas. One of the best religious books I've read. I met more Khrisnas in college, they seemed really cool.