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The Genius Of Religion

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posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 02:40 PM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity

Originally posted by Swamper
So basically, they're smart because they're under control?


No, that's not what I was saying at all. Their lack of desire for control has lead them to lead a much more healthy life than those who much control everything.

They have defeated the manic totalitarian mindset that so often drags us down.


Lack of desire for control??
Are you kidding??
They are at the forefront of control.
All religious people are big control freaks.
They want everyone to believe as they do.
That is why for so long there was no alcohol sold on Sundays, and bars had to close by 2AM.
They are the biggest anti-abortionists, and are against family planning, and some are against birth control.
They have great influence on our law making to this day.




posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 02:46 PM
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reply to post by OhZone
 




Originally posted by OhZone

Originally posted by AfterInfinity

Originally posted by Swamper
So basically, they're smart because they're under control?


No, that's not what I was saying at all. Their lack of desire for control has lead them to lead a much more healthy life than those who much control everything.

They have defeated the manic totalitarian mindset that so often drags us down.


Lack of desire for control??
Are you kidding??
They are at the forefront of control.
All religious people are big control freaks.
They want everyone to believe as they do.
That is why for so long there was no alcohol sold on Sundays, and bars had to close by 2AM.
They are the biggest anti-abortionists, and are against family planning, and some are against birth control.
They have great influence on our law making to this day.



You are describing the Roman Catholics. As I said, not all religious people are the same...but they are beginning to see the light. I have met many Christians who have said they would pray for me, and I allow them to. Thought is a powerful thing, and intentions will always affect everything in this world. What is prayer, but intention? However, they don't look down on me. They worry, but they don't criticize me or judge me. Fear for another's well-being is not a crime.


Do not blame the art for what the practitioner has done with it. If that was the way with all things, alcohol and sex would be banned for all of the car accidents and deadly diseases that have been spread.
edit on 30-6-2012 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 02:46 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 


Humanity has become complacent and shirked too many duties. Which is why they pay doctors to take care of them, instead of learning to think for themselves. Why they hire lawyers, because they can not defend themselves, and learn the law. It goes on and on, humanity has fallen because of how much they've strayed into materialism.



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 02:52 PM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by LesMisanthrope
 



Why would you use those examples then? No need to be crude.


Because I was giving a clear cut demonstration of exactly the behaviors I was referring to. Not all homeless people live in cardboard boxes, but when you think of the word homeless, you see a man sitting on the corner with a sign saying, "Will Work For Food", or something similar.



If I can get past the labels you used, and I jump into your christian mindset, I believe you are trying to state that it is necessary for an atheist systematize or control the chaos in his life, while the christian doesn't have to because god does it for him. Is this correct?


I'm not Christian. I am, however, able to see the advantages in being a Christian. The problem arises when there are more disadvantages than advantages.

You are partially correct in your summation. I'd like to flesh it out a little, though. You've got the WHAT, not the WHY. When you strive to control everything in life, there are inevitably things that you cannot control, and your predisposition for control leads you to fear these things. For instance, death, sickness, differences in culture, any variable that is beyond control and influences your life in some way. A need to control these things leads to valuing methods of control, devices that enable you to master your environment. Unfortunately, it's unhealthy to be so thoroughly obsessed with such temporary objects and services, and can lead to ignorance regarding the stuff that money cannot buy or even touch. Things that money can't possibly teach you, except through circumstance. Therefore, acceptance of the things in life which are beyond control inherently teaches values in life that, while not necessarily beneficial to the all-important survival mode, will most certainly enable you to behave as the civilized, compassionate human being you want to be.
edit on 30-6-2012 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)


I can agree that “it is unhealthy to be so obsessed with temporary objects and services” and it may preoccupy the obsessor more than it should. And yes Christians do have the advantage of attributing chaos to something else, thus putting meaning on and accepting their suffering. Religion does have its utility. For this you are dead on in my book.

We both know that anyone can help at a soup kitchen—and you may be right to imply that Christians are the majority of the ones who do—but what would the christians and atheists intent be behind helping at soup kitchen? There are many reasons why both parties would do it—vanity, to help, compassion, good on a resume, karma etc—except one. Only the Christian would do it for a god. How is that accepting the unknown for what it is?

Religion is very useful, it gives the masses something metaphysical to chew on. It saves them the hassle of coming up with their own belief system based on their very own experience of the universe. It also has a built in moral code, because apparently some people need it. It's ready-made and cooks in about 15 seconds in the microwave. I also don't want to see religion disappear, because without it, these people will kill people like you and me—thinkers.

Good post





posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 02:52 PM
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reply to post by VeritasAequitas
 


Have you ever attempted to get ten or more degrees? Do you know how many are required to become a doctor capable of diagnosing and treating every known illness? And afterward, to become well-versed and certified to practice law?

That's why we have people to do it for us. And then, when they need their taxes filed or their sideburns trimmed, they come to us. Because they aren't certified with those skills, and they want someone who is.



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 03:01 PM
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reply to post by LesMisanthrope
 



what would the christians and atheists intent be behind helping at soup kitchen?


"For in helping the least of my brothers, you have helped me." Sound familiar? As for atheists serving in a soup kitchen, I wouldn't know. I've never met one. And yes, I've been to many. If I had to guess, I would say that compassion for hardship is the source. Unless extra credit is involved.


Only the Christian would do it for a god. How is that accepting the unknown for what it is?


I never said the unknown. It helps to read carefully...it prevents the assumption of knowing what I'm saying and declaring me wrong before realizing that you didn't know what I was on about at all. A friendly suggestion.


What I actually said was "uncontrollable". When you give control to a higher power, then you stop worrying about the physical stuff, the stuff that relies on circumstances and variables to obtain and maintain...and that gives you time to work on the spiritual exercise. Thus, soup kitchens.


Religion is very useful, it gives the masses something metaphysical to chew on. It saves them the hassle of coming up with their own belief system based on their very own experience of the universe.


That is a thoroughly depressing reason to believe in something. Just because it's fresh off the mass-production line? That devalues it to the point of toilet rags.


I also don't want to see religion disappear, because without it, these people will kill people like you and me—thinkers.

Good post


Thank you for the discussion.



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 03:04 PM
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reply to post by VeritasAequitas
 


Materialism?
Our bodies are material are they not?
We need material food, clothing, housing and a means of transportation don't we?
And why exactly should we deny ourselves the pleasure of having radio, cell phones, television and computers?
Why should we deny ourselves any of the pleasures legally available?
How many hours do you think we should work?, and what do you think we should do with our spare time?
This term "materialism" has no meaning.
It seems to imply that we should al be stoic, living with bare minimum necessities, and maybe sitting aroung praying whenever we are not sleeping or working.
And since we do work, what do we do with our money?
And what sort of jobs do we have?

I would like one of you who throw this word "materialism" around so freely to describe what sort of life you think we should be living.

And to those of you who say you are "spiritual".
What exactly is "spiritual"? Can you descibe it?



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 03:15 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 

you said:
"What I actually said was "uncontrollable". When you give control to a higher power, then you stop worrying about the physical stuff, the stuff that relies on circumstances and variables to obtain and maintain...and that gives you time to work on the spiritual exercise. Thus, soup kitchens."

****Certainly these folks work for a living? Or do they expect their god to deliver the groceries, and their clothing, and pay the rent or the mortgage too? They certainly must have control over their lives.
Soup kitchens are a spritual exercise??
How many people do these soup kitchens need? Are there people waiting in line to exercise their sprituality?
Why is this job spiritual?



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 03:16 PM
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reply to post by OhZone
 



Originally posted by OhZone
reply to post by VeritasAequitas
 


Materialism?
Our bodies are material are they not?
We need material food, clothing, housing and a means of transportation don't we?
And why exactly should we deny ourselves the pleasure of having radio, cell phones, television and computers?
Why should we deny ourselves any of the pleasures legally available?
How many hours do you think we should work?, and what do you think we should do with our spare time?
This term "materialism" has no meaning.
It seems to imply that we should al be stoic, living with bare minimum necessities, and maybe sitting aroung praying whenever we are not sleeping or working.
And since we do work, what do we do with our money?
And what sort of jobs do we have?

I would like one of you who throw this word "materialism" around so freely to describe what sort of life you think we should be living.

And to those of you who say you are "spiritual".
What exactly is "spiritual"? Can you descibe it?



Remember the businessman in my OP? This user is that businessman.

Materialism is the concept of loving the car you drive more than the beautiful woman who is so engaged by your charisma. Those appliances will break down, and where is your pleasure then? What sort of memories do you make by chatting on the phone all day, or plunked on a couch?

Legally available...they are "legally" available because you pay money for them, and the government likes money. You've been very deeply sold on the current system. *sigh*

Living with bare necessities might teach you something about how your phone, your television, your ipod and your coffee brewer are not necessary for living a productive and happy life. That's the reason I don't like materialism: the stuff outside of your body becomes more important than what's happening in your heart.

Spirituality, to me, is the connection with life around you. If it makes you feel alive, it's spiritual. But there's a difference between life of the flesh and life of the heart and mind. If you can't tell the difference, then I have nothing more to say to you.



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 03:18 PM
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reply to post by OhZone
 




Certainly these folks work for a living? Or do they expect their god to deliver the groceries, and their clothing, and pay the rent or the mortgage too? They certainly must have control over their lives.
Soup kitchens are a spritual exercise??
How many people do these soup kitchens need? Are there people waiting in line to exercise their sprituality?
Why is this job spiritual?


Perhaps you've spent too much time on the computer, to ask these kinds of questions. It's like polishing air so you can see through it better.

These people serving in soup kitchens are not paid for that time spent. They get nothing out of it but satisfaction in helping their fellow living creatures. And that's where the spirit is.

edit on 30-6-2012 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 03:20 PM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity

I never said the unknown. It helps to read carefully...it prevents the assumption of knowing what I'm saying and declaring me wrong before realizing that you didn't know what I was on about at all. A friendly suggestion.


What I actually said was "uncontrollable". When you give control to a higher power, then you stop worrying about the physical stuff, the stuff that relies on circumstances and variables to obtain and maintain...and that gives you time to work on the spiritual exercise. Thus, soup kitchens.


Chaos, unknown, uncontrollable—same thing. You cannot control the unknown. I did read your post twice—and it's my fault?



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 03:24 PM
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reply to post by arpgme
 





Then again, there are more religious than atheist homeless people, aren't there?



Are there? You got some stats or poll results on that assumption? How do you define homeless? Are they just the people who live on the street in cities, or are they victims of war and weather as well?

It's true that there are more religious people than atheists, but I think the stats would show that the percentage of the homeless is in line with the percentages of atheists.



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 03:25 PM
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reply to post by LesMisanthrope
 


Unknown and uncontrollable are not the same thing.


A car that is controlled remotely is, to a bystander, uncontrollable. They themselves have absolutely no influence over the car. They do, however, know it's a car. The immediate future of their relationship with that car is unknown, yes. But that's why people fear a lack of control. Lack of control creates a lack of knowledge, but it does not automatically become that lack.

Fear of the uncontrollable because it leads to the unknown.



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 03:32 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 


So you ve managed to skip over christianitys history... and go straight to your beloved new age religions.

Just because "some" christians are what you would call perfect people in this day an age doesnt mean that those same people wouldnt be murdering whole families and taking little girls as slave wifes if god had commanded it.

Your missing the whole downside to the such lies. These people are easily manipulated and even today with the right fancy words we got religious people shooting 2 girls trying to enjoy themselves sitting in a park because god says they deserve to die.



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 03:39 PM
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Originally posted by Wertdagf
reply to post by AfterInfinity
 


So you ve managed to skip over christianitys history... and go straight to your beloved new age religions.

Just because "some" christians are what you would call perfect people in this day an age doesnt mean that those same people wouldnt be murdering whole families and taking little girls as slave wifes if god had commanded it.

Your missing the whole downside to the such lies. These people are easily manipulated and even today with the right fancy words we got religious people shooting 2 girls trying to enjoy themselves sitting in a park because god says they deserve to die.


Is it better to be easily manipulated and peaceful (there will always be oddballs, I know) than hard to convince and downright hostile?

Remember, there's parts of Leviticus that would make Sparta look like a playground...and people don't follow it word for word.

Atheists shot a girl because she believed in God. There's a book on it. Simply put, just because not everyone has reached the potential of an art, does not mean the art is worthy of condemnation. That makes the practitioner worthy of such emotions. But then again, we don't do the blame game halfway, do we?



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 03:43 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 


So your suggesting the dark ages were peacefull? Are you suggesting that the crusades were peacefull?

I dont think you know which time in history the Peacefull and easily manipulated people lived.

Even the native americans were busying murdering eachother over land and water.
edit on 30-6-2012 by Wertdagf because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 03:43 PM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by LesMisanthrope
 


Unknown and uncontrollable are not the same thing.


A car that is controlled remotely is, to a bystander, uncontrollable. They themselves have absolutely no influence over the car. They do, however, know it's a car. The immediate future of their relationship with that car is unknown, yes. But that's why people fear a lack of control. Lack of control creates a lack of knowledge, but it does not automatically become that lack.

Fear of the uncontrollable because it leads to the unknown.


Mind my semantics, I apologize for using the wrong word. Since it isn't the fear of the unknown we're talking about I will talk about fear of the uncontrollable.

He who fears what he cannot control is the man who attributes it to something just as abstract ie. a god, aliens etc. which is a willful ignorance, or choosing to mystify something for the purposes of happiness. Someone who chooses ignorance? I don't understand the logic behind doing something like that.



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 03:48 PM
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reply to post by LesMisanthrope
 


Mankind has believed in gods for thousands of years. Did you really expect us to stop so quickly? That requires forfeiting faith...something we are not willing to do. We need a source of faith.

We have no right to condemn hope.



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 03:50 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 


How does losing faith in a magical imaginary friend destroy hope.

obviously some people have spent so much time focused on religious delusions that its gonna be hard coming back to reality...

Theres lots of hope for humanity without a god.

Thats like saying that children who dont believe in santa wont be good around christmas...
edit on 30-6-2012 by Wertdagf because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 04:02 PM
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reply to post by Wertdagf
 




How does losing faith in a magical imaginary friend destroy hope.


The same way getting your truck totaled wrecks your mood for the weekend. To someone else, it's just a car. To you...it's your mode of transportation, your means of getting to work and your tool for picking up chicks.

When you attach hope to an idea, the loss of that idea is the loss of meaning in life.


obviously some people have spent so much time focused on religious delusions that its gonna be hard coming back to reality...


You've been convincing yourself of your own superiority for so long, you've lost the ability to accept differing viewpoints.


Theres lots of hope for humanity without a god.


Religion invented morals. Without a god, there are no morals. There is only logic...and the most logical goal is survival, which means every man for himself, unless you establish a totalitarian regime that gives everyone rations and kills anyone who dares to think outside of the pack. Where do you find the hope in that?


Thats like saying that children who dont believe in santa wont be good around christmas...


And generally, they aren't good. Unless the belt comes out, of course. The less reason you have to be compassionate, the more sadistic you will be. That's a general rule for mankind. We're just too good at being savages.



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