The Genius Of Religion

Please maintain civility while discussing this thread.


Alright, you know the premise of this thread. Christians are pretty clever. They don't know it, but they are. How can I say this? It's not exactly simple, but I'll do my best to explain.

Mankind has always been a species of extremes. Throughout religion and science, we see numerous examples of "not good enough", and "let's see if we can do better". Better forms of worship, better expressions of piety, faster cars, more compact technology, even so far as to prolong life, instill death, and manipulate the weather itself. Whatever field mankind finds itself in, it strives to reach the top. I'm a firm believer in balance; stray too far to any one side, and you've got too much of one thing and too little of another. It takes all kinds, and extremes are, by definition, exclusively monogamous.

So if balance is a virtue, and too much focus in any one direction throws the spinning top off its mark, why do we do it? Why do we swing from one end to the other without pausing at the center point? Motion. It's all about motion. When there is no motion, you become stagnant. Pointless. And a life with no point is no life at all. So we search to create meaning, even if there is initially no meaning at all. To create meaning, you must attach a value to something. But just having value isn't enough. That value must be expressed, must be experienced, to truly be present. And so we constantly seek to experience whatever value we hold dear. An honest man will surround himself with those who are honest, and an entrepreneur will hunt for ways to make the next dollar. Incidentally, this facet of our nature has been used to cultivate modern society, teaching children what values to hold dear so that they will automatically live for the well-being of the system that trained them.

But what does this have to do with religion?

As a species of extremes, we relentlessly churn toward whatever value is close to our heart. One such value: control. For as long as we've been alive, we have always feared death and destruction, the loss of our life or loss of those things we love. And so, we have sought to establish control over our lives and the world. Today, that has come about through science...which explains why we've become a purely logical, left-brained world. There is virtually nothing science cannot do; its only limit is what we think of to do with it. Similarly, religion (Christianity in particular) has control over the masses, albeit through a roundabout means. With hundreds of years of experience in debasing ourselves to powerful figures, we know how to appease a being that can manipulate factors we know nothing about. If we can't figure something out, we appeal to someone who does. Hence, God.

And how is this the work of a genius? Take a look at an atheist...a businessman, for example. Money is his wine, the stock markets are his field, and the economy is his god. He will, every day, do nothing but study figures and worry over the next day's trends. His well-being and livelihood are dependent upon factors that are outside of his control, and he therefore stresses every week over contingency plans and preemptive courses of action should his financial assets take a hit from an ill-advised shift in strategy, or should corporate folly drain his investments. Worst of all, he is forced to value physical things above all else, the sort of things that only an abundance of cash can guarantee. His survival requires that he have the Midas curse.

Now we look at the Christian. Someone who believes in a concept that has yet to be proven in a scientific community, someone who may often hold strange ideals and have faith in ancient events that would raise eyebrows among the educated, and yet someone who checks everything with their conscience before hitting the gas. Someone who doesn't worry about life because they have placed their destiny in the hands of their god, and who at the same time believes that their beliefs have obligated them to, in honor of their savior, live a life of stellar behavior. This person doesn't care about money. They help at soup kitchens, they give donations to charities, and they help that old lady cross the street because they want to be of assistance. Material possessions are not important, as long as the family is healthy and happy.

See the difference? The businessman, who believes in no god, scrambles every day to make sure that he'll still be around next month to pay the bills. The Christian has faith that all will be provided, and simply does the best to live a life they'll never regret. Don't misunderstand, a god is not necessary for such a mindset. However, all of the complaints regarding religion and how foolish it is come from people who have overlooked one small thing: Christians don't have to worry about control. Atheists do. And that's why the entire world is overcome with people who are desperate to command their lives, even to the point of stepping on everyone else.

In a world where control is never absolute, constantly seeking control will keep you in the sand pit as surely as though you'd buried yourself there. Fear of loss of control is fear of life itself. And we wonder why we're always at each others' throats...How can we live with the differences in others when we can't even live with mystery of our own lives?

It's not where you're going. It's how you get there. Live a life of no regrets, and you shouldn't have to worry where you'll end up. Even if it is someplace hellish, it was worth it, yes? And if you're still going to argue about the labeling in this thread, perhaps I should point out that while not every atheist acts the same way, you will never find a religious person playing god like this:

Genetically Modified Babies

The day that humans become as powerful as "God", is the day we decide we don't need a god. And the day we decide we don't need a god, is the day we take moral and ethics into our own hands. I believe we've shown how successful we can be in that area already. Does the name Hiroshima ring any bells?



Note: the examples of the Christian and businessman, for those of you who have nothing better to contribute, are only examples. They are not restrictive in any sense. Perhaps they do not fall under such precise labels, but there is no denying that such behaviors are displayed all of the time, all over the world. This is what I was pointing out.

So basically, they're smart because they're under control?

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Then again, there are more religious than atheist homeless people, aren't there?

It's interesting how you put down materialism, and try to put down atheism by specifically referring to a businessman, but one thing you forgot. For some atheists, family is more important than money, some value human life more than anything since they believe that there is no afterlife.

Not all Atheists are like the businessman you describe and not all Christians are like the Christians you describe also.
You can be spiritual without believing in a god and you don't suddenly get morals because your a Christian.

Nice you changed the title from Christians are genius;s to what it is now but my comment still applies.

Me I follow Humanity each one of us is an individual point of conscious thought and the center of our universe so we are each God.

Originally posted by Swamper
So basically, they're smart because they're under control?

No, that's not what I was saying at all. Their lack of desire for control has lead them to lead a much more healthy life than those who much control everything.

They have defeated the manic totalitarian mindset that so often drags us down.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


So to live a life of being controlled like sheep makes you more healthy? to be ignorant to everything else cos your Priest/Rabbi/Iman says so?
nah I will stay as Iam and I will question it all.

Also are the leaders of the Church the ones who need to control?

reply to post by boymonkey74


The change in title was an anticipation of users who see the word "Christian" and immediately blacklist the thread in their mind.

Not all cars are the same either, are they? But they share certain characteristics which define the principle of "automobile". All religious people believe in a higher power, and most of those people view that higher power as an authority, to some extent. Businessmen are in the business of money, obviously. Therefore, money is a big thing to them. It affects most of the important factors in their day-to-day living.

Of course there are discrepancies, but there are also similarities. A fly in the soup does not stop it from being soup.

first of all that's heavy and don't even think that i read that crap in full but anyways...

explain that to missionaries in poor countries who trying to convert people using any methods possible (booze, food status etc) or to that killer norway or those extreme right wing fanatics or those child molester priests.

no offence though i think Christians are wonderful people. every religion has nut cases who try to prove their religion is superior to others. Now i m not saying all Christians are fools but you have your fair share dude.

Sometimes less is more? Tolerance and remaining content with less? I first dawned on the actual scope of Esotericism, and the imposition of will from media and corporations at a societal control level from a thread by Pianopraze, last year. The concept wasn't new, but those words helped to explain it into an actual format you could study.

Gaga and Beyonce Telephone: mind control, eugenics & overpopulation, poisoning the world through GMO
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Telephone, by gaga and beyonce.

This video is full of mind control elements. Here is an excellent article by The Vigilant Citizen explaining many of them: link. If you are not familiar with him I suggest you explore the sight, it is full of some of great analysis.

Before analyzing it I will answer the obvious question: "If they are trying to kill us off why tell us?"

Answer: because they think they gain esoteric power to cary out their plans.

This is why the "awards ceremonies" are used to carry out esoteric rituals. Ever find them incomprehensible? Start researching esotericism and you will understand what you are seeing.

Many forms of magic focus on WILL... Aleister Crowley said it succinctly:

"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law."

"Magick is the Science and Art of causing Change to occur in conformity with Will."

They are trying to impose their will on us... to make us die. They think they gain extra power by showing their plans to us. And how do they show us these plans? Through Hollywood..... Holly Wood was used to form wands for the casting of spells. What is holly associated with in these essoteric practice?

reply to post by imjustcurious242


Your entire post is a contradiction. First you accuse religious people of coercion, then say you think they are wonderful. Are you agreeing or disagreeing?

If you're not going to read the full OP, then why bother posting?

reply to post by Northwarden


"Magic" is a form of religion. The difference lies in using your own divinity for effect in life, rather than relying upon a higher power to use its own discretion.

With that said, the use of a principle or perspective does not dictate its nature beyond the expression of possibility. An axe is not inherently evil once someone has gone on a killing spree. Yes, it is possibly dangerous, but it is also possibly good. My personal definition of good and evil are that good will serve all else before it serves itself, and evil will serve itself at the expense of all others.

Therefore, no thing (as according to the word's definition) is truly good nor evil. Only the intention or action can be considered as such. And when it comes down to that, you should look at the practitioner and not the art.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity

Originally posted by Swamper
So basically, they're smart because they're under control?

No, that's not what I was saying at all. Their lack of desire for control has lead them to lead a much more healthy life than those who much control everything.

They have defeated the manic totalitarian mindset that so often drags us down.

Western/Middle-Eastern religion is a weapon of that mindset. This is unfortunate of course.

But yes, the Romans were clever... they knew uniting all the people under one belief would serve there purposes. Just like they conquered and installed their religion, today we go around conquering lands in the name of "democracy" and installing that ideology. It's all politics. From republics to empires. Notice how nothing has changed in 2000 years? Still oppressed, still under the thumb. As religious fervour begins to diminish, something new will take it's place: currently it's money. Money is today's god.

I don't think it's possible to pigeon-hole someone who calls themselves atheist or christian under such banners. In reality, atheists hold many of the same values as christians, hindus, buddhists, muslims and vice versa. I've worked in soup kitchens before, not because I fear god, because I don't believe in him, but because I am empathetic. I've seen massively rich christians who would put the dollar before their fellow man. One needs only to watch a televangelist to notice the size of their church.

Religion does have it's merits, but one thing it is not good at is telling people how to be good. We can look at the religious records of atrocities to show that Christians haven't always been the best people. Also the values of Christianity, with much of it derived from neoplatonism, stoicism and other Hellenistic philosophies, are fairly self-evident and you needn't be a christian to live by them.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


I agree with you no thing can be truly good nor evil but that goes for us human beings, we can look at a murderer and say he is evil but that person may have done many good things in his life, the same goes for a priest who people call good but he may have done evil things also.

You are right it is balance yin and yang we can not be truly one sided, I just hope to follow the path down the middle.

reply to post by arpgme

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by AfterInfinity

 

Then again, there are more religious than atheist homeless people, aren't there?

It's interesting how you put down materialism, and try to put down atheism by specifically referring to a businessman, but one thing you forgot. For some atheists, family is more important than money, some value human life more than anything since they believe that there is no afterlife.

And how does this affect their view of worldly progression? What is their definition of progress? Where do their morals come from?

reply to post by LesMisanthrope


Is that all you're going to do? Zero in on the examples instead of the deeper message?

I have a word for you to look up: "Hypothetical".

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by LesMisanthrope

 

Is that all you're going to do? Zero in on the examples instead of the deeper message?

I have a word for you to look up: "Hypothetical".

Why would you use those examples then? No need to be crude. Maybe you should read the first line of your own OP. And yes, I infer too much. It is a curse.

If I can get past the labels you used, and I jump into your christian mindset, I believe you are trying to state that it is necessary for an atheist systematize or control the chaos in his life, while the christian doesn't have to because god does it for him. Is this correct?

reply to post by AfterInfinity


I have to disagree on one point. Christians are dependent on God for everything. Salvation, Food, Water, etc, they rely on him for. I cannot mention how many times I see kids on Facebook begging and pleading God to fix up a life that they messed up instead of getting off their ass and doing it themselves. This world is built for dependency, and until you take personal responsibility and become independent. You will most likely be stuck here for a while. While the businessman may be working himself to death to take care of himself, he is the one in the driver seat attempting to drive, instead of just letting someone else steer the car of life for him.

reply to post by LesMisanthrope

Why would you use those examples then? No need to be crude.

Because I was giving a clear cut demonstration of exactly the behaviors I was referring to. Not all homeless people live in cardboard boxes, but when you think of the word homeless, you see a man sitting on the corner with a sign saying, "Will Work For Food", or something similar.

If I can get past the labels you used, and I jump into your christian mindset, I believe you are trying to state that it is necessary for an atheist systematize or control the chaos in his life, while the christian doesn't have to because god does it for him. Is this correct?

I'm not Christian. I am, however, able to see the advantages in being a Christian. The problem arises when there are more disadvantages than advantages.

You are partially correct in your summation. I'd like to flesh it out a little, though. You've got the WHAT, not the WHY. When you strive to control everything in life, there are inevitably things that you cannot control, and your predisposition for control leads you to fear these things. For instance, death, sickness, differences in culture, any variable that is beyond control and influences your life in some way. A need to control these things leads to valuing methods of control, devices that enable you to master your environment. Unfortunately, it's unhealthy to be so thoroughly obsessed with such temporary objects and services, and can lead to ignorance regarding the stuff that money cannot buy or even touch. Things that money can't possibly teach you, except through circumstance. Therefore, acceptance of the things in life which are beyond control inherently teaches values in life that, while not necessarily beneficial to the all-important survival mode, will most certainly enable you to behave as the civilized, compassionate human being you want to be.

reply to post by VeritasAequitas

I cannot mention how many times I see kids on Facebook begging and pleading God to fix up a life that they messed up instead of getting off their ass and doing it themselves.

Kids also believe that it is imperative they receive the new IPhone for Christmas as well. Kids will be kids. It is best not to judge a concept by how the inexperienced view it. That is a matter for the inexperienced to reconcile on their own time.

This world is built for dependency, and until you take personal responsibility and become independent.

That is the nature of a reality that is designed for the flow of energy. Even batteries are dependent, and they rely on one of the most basic forms of energy available: the flow of electrons.

While the businessman may be working himself to death to take care of himself, he is the one in the driver seat attempting to drive, instead of just letting someone else steer the car of life for him.

Do you know why they have a label on the jar of nuts saying "Warning: Contains Nuts"? It's because people like to pretend that humankind is so smart it can fend for itself. And yet, time and again, we have proven ourselves the most mentally deficient species on the planet. Wolves have been around for many years longer than we have, and yet we've caused more damage than they could ever hope to achieve.

And you wonder why we surrender the wheel? Sometimes, it is wise to shirk responsibility so as to protect ourselves from...well, ourselves. No one makes the cancer patient fetch their own medicine in the hospital.