The real threat of Obamacare is the Independent Payment Advisory Board

reply to post by habitforming


The Democrats are trying to use language that makes it all sound not like death panels.

WASHINGTON — When a proposal to encourage end-of-life planning touched off a political storm over “death panels,” Democrats dropped it from legislation to overhaul the health care system. But the Obama administration will achieve the same goal by regulation, starting Jan. 1.

Under the new policy, outlined in a Medicare regulation, the government will pay doctors who advise patients on options for end-of-life care, which may include advance directives to forgo aggressive life-sustaining treatment.

The final version of the health care legislation, signed into law by President Obama in March, authorized Medicare coverage of yearly physical examinations, or wellness visits. The new rule says Medicare will cover “voluntary advance care planning,” to discuss end-of-life treatment, as part of the annual visit.

www.nytimes.com...
In other words the govt will have doctors advise you to not have life sustaining procedures and they are trying to make it sound like you actually have a choice. But of course since some people such as yourself believe that stuff because the govt loves you.....what can I say.

Believe the lies my friend...Soylent green is people. Drink the kool aid

Death Panels per neurosurgeon

www.therightscoop.com...

Caller: Yes. And basically they don’t call them patients, they call them units. And instead of – they call it “ethics panels” or “ethics committees”, would get together and meet and decide where the money would go for hospitals, and basically for patients over 70 years of age, that advanced neurosurgical care was not generally indicated.

Mark Levin: So it’s generally going to be denied?

Caller: Yes, absolutely. …If someone comes in at 70 years of age with a bleed in their brain, I can promise you I’m not going to get a bunch of administrators together on an ethics panel at 2 in the morning to decide that I’m OK to do surgery.

Obama needs to take the damn pill.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


I am still waiting for you to refute my post.
That is really the only thing from you I plan on reading.
Take all your death panel bull# and stuff it.
Ask Jan Brewer all about the current death panels Republicans think are so cute.

It's sad. I was around a group of people last night and we were having conversations about all sorts of things and then Obamacare and the Supreme Court Ruling came up. I then asked the people who support Obamacare did they know what the IPAB was and none of them knew. I suspect this is the case for most people who support Obamacare.

Here's quotes from an article that supports the ghoulish IPAB.

The panel can’t increase beneficiary copayments or premiums, change eligibility rules, increase payroll taxes or alter existing benefits. Instead, it must focus on reforming the way health care is delivered and the incentives that drive doctors and hospitals to pursue quantity over quality.

For example, when patients acquire in-hospital infections, extending their stays and requiring additional treatments, IPAB could reduce payments to the hospital. It could reward providers for bundling care and billings, making it easier to coordinate care for patients with, say, diabetes. And the board could align reimbursement rates with health outcomes rather than paying fees for service.

www.bloomberg.com...

The whole key to controlling healthcare is controlling reimbursement rates. Right now Seniors and other's on Medicare can shop around for Doctor's who will accept the reimbursement rates. Obama and the Democrats think Doctors pursue quantity over quality. So there's all these Doctors taking out tonsils for no reason like Obama said. This is a silly argument and Doctors have to have quantity because there not psychic.

I remember being in the Hospital last year and they did all kinds of test. This is because Doctors had to rule things out so they need quantity which led to quality when they found the problem and fixed it. I bet when Obama's family gets sick he wants quantity.

Another key line is,"And the board could align reimbursement rates with health outcomes rather than paying fees for service." This is exactly what I've been saying. Today Medicare is The Government paying fees to Doctors for service. This allows Seniors and others to shop around for Doctors who will carry out different procedures for these reimbursement rates. The IPAB will align reimbursement rates to healthcare outcomes. Healthcare outcomes should be between you and your Doctor. Now these Healthcare Outcomes will determine reimbursement rates as to which procedures are necessary and which ones are unecessary.

How do you reduce the quantity of Healthcare and increase the quality from Washington D.C. from a 15 member board?

The whole idea is to reduce healthcare costs by reducing the quantity of healthcare. Whose the biggest consumer of healthcare in America? The elderly and the sickest among us.

This is Nazi Germany stuff and sadly most people are talking about the Individual Mandate when it's the IPAB that is design to slow population growth and the aging of seniors through the rationing of healthcare.

Again, the problem is the structure of Medicare and S.S. These are pyramids that depend on workers at the bottom of the pyramid to pay out benefits to those retiring at the top of the pyramid. When people at the top of the pyramid start living longer, the pyramid turns into a diamond and the programs begin to spend more than they take in.

Instead of changing these programs to fit the increasing life expectancy, Obama and the Democrats basically want to kill seniors and the sickest among us to control healthcare cost. Of course they call it end of life care so instead of getting that surgery you want, you will just have to take pain pills and die as someone comes by and reads you a book everyday.

VERY GHOULISH!!

reply to post by neoholographic


I have said it before and i'll say it again, Obamacare is a deathcare system, not a healthcare system. They want to push the elderly into the grave at younger age for monetary purposes. Now how moral is that? Hurry up and shove grandma and grandpa into an early grave because it's cheaper. All the more reason "Lightning from Heaven" needs to be removed from office, cuz that dude is Satan incarnate. I'm seriously starting to believe what people say about him being the Antichrist. Actions speak louder than words, observe the man's actions, they brand him liar.

Originally posted by habitforming
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

 

You are adding onto your non-response. I am still waiting for one simple thing and that is your refutation. Until I see that, no reason to respond to anything else you post.

Then don't! You wont be missed!

If you don't agree, simply find a board you agree with. Your posts are full of nothing but hate & anger and serve no other purpose than to get in a board-fight.

I suggest you get to the doc ASAP and beg for happy pills. They should be free of charge unless, you are too damn old to get the prescription.

Originally posted by Kituwa

Then don't! You wont be missed!

If you don't agree, simply find a board you agree with. Your posts are full of nothing but hate & anger and serve no other purpose than to get in a board-fight.

I suggest you get to the doc ASAP and beg for happy pills. They should be free of charge unless, you are too damn old to get the prescription.

There are people running around ATS begging for civil war, armed rebellion, and to have the president hung. I am pretty happy. Other than addressing me personally, did you have anything of value to add?

Originally posted by habitforming
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

 

I am still waiting for you to refute my post.
That is really the only thing from you I plan on reading.
Take all your death panel bull# and stuff it.
Ask Jan Brewer all about the current death panels Republicans think are so cute.

Why don't you just tell me what you are talking about with regard to Jan Brewer.Her fight with Obama is about the illegals overrunning her State and trashing up the desert with dirty diapers and all manner of disgusting tihngs, and that's before they go into the ranch homes and help themselves to whatever's in the fridge. But that's the genuine illegal issue. We were discussing death panels. It is a fact that the legislation has govt bureaucrats to make important decisions on who gets what surgeries, and also to help your doc advise you on end of life issues. So guess what buddy, you can take your own hyperbole and you know what to do per the Golden Rule.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
Why don't you just tell me what you are talking about with regard to Jan Brewer.Her fight with Obama is about the illegals overrunning her State and trashing up the desert with dirty diapers and all manner of disgusting tihngs, and that's before they go into the ranch homes and help themselves to whatever's in the fridge.

I have given you several links and none of them have anything to do with non-citizens. But you know those are in other threads where you are crying about death panels. I want you to refute my facts. You say that old people are subject to death panels in the UK. I say old people live longer in the UK.
It cannot be both.

Originally posted by habitforming

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
Why don't you just tell me what you are talking about with regard to Jan Brewer.Her fight with Obama is about the illegals overrunning her State and trashing up the desert with dirty diapers and all manner of disgusting tihngs, and that's before they go into the ranch homes and help themselves to whatever's in the fridge.

I have given you several links and none of them have anything to do with non-citizens. But you know those are in other threads where you are crying about death panels. I want you to refute my facts. You say that old people are subject to death panels in the UK. I say old people live longer in the UK.
It cannot be both.

edit on 2-7-2012 by habitforming because: (no reason given)

Just tell me here and now what Jan Brewer has to do with the death panels. I am not going to go around searching for links you provided in another thread unless you will post a link to that thread since you seem to know exactly where it is. I had other important things to do today which completely eclipse your petty stuff. If you have a point to make about Ms Brewer then just make it here and now. Otherwise it's a non-issue.
What I did was to post an article from the Telegraph that stated that up to a million elderly people were not getting the care they needed because bureaucrats thought they weren't needy enough. The article further states that the healthcare they have needs overhauling because there isn't enough funding. Now why can't you understand that when people (in other threads) were saying how great health care was in the UK and in other places where Universal or socialist health care is practiced, there is evidence to show that it's not all it's cracked up to be and if programs in the UK are unfunded, what makes you think it's going to go any better in the US?
Yes, I can and have refuted some things you say.

There are many ways the death panels can ration.

Price controls.

Restricted medical procedures.

Medical and Administrative "Errors" - they can create mistakes, and can take advantage of (exploit) genuine mistakes.

Medicare may have some real examples.

Washington -- A government watchdog's audit of improper payment determinations for Medicare services showed that contractors had denied payments for some valid services in 2010.

The Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services uses contractors to manage a comprehensive error-rate testing program that determines the frequency of improper payments in Medicare fee-for-service. In 2010, that error rate was 10.5% and represented an estimated $34.3 billion in improper payments, according to a February report by the Dept. of Health and Human Services Office of Inspector General. However, a review of those audits showed that the error rate would have been lower if contractors had taken extra steps to obtain records showing that billed services were medically necessary.

"Additional efforts to obtain missing documentation could more clearly reflect the true status of improper payments" in the error rate estimate, the OIG said. The error rate in 2010 would have been 10.2%, a total of nearly $1 billion less in improper payments.
Medicare contractors rejecting pay for some legitimate services

Healthcare rationing in the United States exists in various forms. Access to private health insurance is rationed based on price and ability to pay. Those not able to afford a health insurance policy are unable to acquire one, and sometimes insurance companies pre-screen applicants for pre-existing medical conditions and either decline to cover the applicant or apply additional price and medical coverage conditions.[1][2][3] Access to state Medicaid programs is restricted by income and asset limits via a means-test, and to other federal and state eligibility regulations. Health maintenance organizations (HMOs) that commonly cover the bulk of the population, restrict access to treatment via financial and clinical access limits.[4]

The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act passed in March 2010 will prohibit insurers from limiting coverage to people with preexisting conditions beginning in 2014, which will alleviate this type of rationing.

Some in the media and academia have advocated rationing of care to limit the overall costs in the U.S. Medicare and Medicaid programs, arguing that a proper rationing mechanism is more equitable and cost-effective.[5][6][7] The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) has argued that healthcare costs are the primary driver of government spending over the long-term.[8]
Healthcare rationing in the United States

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
Just tell me here and now what Jan Brewer has to do with the death panels.

Each time that I do, you just run to another thread and start your lies all over again and then pretend you never saw it. That is getting old real fast. If you were actually concerned about Death Panels, you would already know this stuff if not be willing to just google Jan Brewer Death Panels. But that is not it. You just hate Obama.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus

Originally posted by habitforming
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

 

I am still waiting for you to refute my post.
That is really the only thing from you I plan on reading.
Take all your death panel bull# and stuff it.
Ask Jan Brewer all about the current death panels Republicans think are so cute.

Why don't you just tell me what you are talking about with regard to Jan Brewer.Her fight with Obama is about the illegals overrunning her State and trashing up the desert with dirty diapers and all manner of disgusting tihngs, and that's before they go into the ranch homes and help themselves to whatever's in the fridge. But that's the genuine illegal issue. We were discussing death panels. It is a fact that the legislation has govt bureaucrats to make important decisions on who gets what surgeries, and also to help your doc advise you on end of life issues. So guess what buddy, you can take your own hyperbole and you know what to do per the Golden Rule.

Congratulations Jan Brewer, your death panel was effective. A patient has died.

Two More Arizonians Join Jan Brewer’s Death Panel

Yes, Gov. Brewer, Arizona does have a death panel Read more:

Arizona Death Panel Claims Another Victim

Arizona Governor Jan Brewer's Republican death panel claims second life

I do not mind posting these links over and over again. What bothers me is that I even have to introduce this to you. If you actually gave a crap about so called DEATH PANELS, you would care about them no matter is behind them. You would know about what your own side is doing as well. Unless you only care about death panels because you were told to attack with it.

reply to post by habitforming


So now it's Republican Death Panels, but there aren't any in Obamacare.....you libs are a real piece of work.

But thanks for posting the links, as it wasn't my responsibility to research your talking points.

reply to post by habitforming
What is the obama death panel going to do with premature infants? This question hasn't been raised and you love to defend the death panels -- Come on - this is a challenge. Sustein thinks you should be able to kill an infant up to 2 years of age if it's defective.

Come on, give this your best shot. Be a man.

Originally posted by Happy1
reply to post by habitforming

 

What is the obama death panel going to do with premature infants? This question hasn't been raised and you love to defend the death panels -- Come on - this is a challenge. Sustein thinks you should be able to kill an infant up to 2 years of age if it's defective.

Come on, give this your best shot. Be a man.

What death panels? The ones you made up?
I guess I need you to quote me defending death panels before I can move forward because I think you meant to ask that to someone else.

As long as you brought it up though, any evidence Obama has any death panels is going to need to proceed any questions to me about it.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by habitforming

 

So now it's Republican Death Panels, but there aren't any in Obamacare.....you libs are a real piece of work.

But thanks for posting the links, as it wasn't my responsibility to research your talking points.

Piece of work?
I proved Jan Brewer has a death panel in AZ.
All you have to prove is that Obama has any death panels.
Otherwise, how is it not you that is the piece of work?

You are admitting right here, you do not care one bit about death panels. When it comes from your side, it is apparently ok with you.

reply to post by neoholographic


An absolute violation of freedom because we are too dumb to make those decisions for ourselves. What knowledge will the panel have in addition to what the individuals doctor has? NONE, all they will look at is Ezekiel Emmanuel's Complete Lives System.

online.wsj.com...

IMO, this is contrary to Roe V. Wade. It's a woman's body and her choice correct? Well that works both ways, it's my body and my choice now! I'll decide my fate whether they like it or not.