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The real threat of Obamacare is the Independent Payment Advisory Board

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posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 01:01 PM
Obamacare is rationing healthcare to stop Senior Citizens from living longer. The real problem with Obamacare is not the individual mandate but the IPAB (Independent Payment Advisory Board).

The IPAB will control healthcare in this Country. They will turn Medicare into an Insurance Program instead of a Reimbursement Program. The reason Obama wants executive control of reimbursements is so they can ration healthcare.

Medicare has worked when it comes to increasing life expectancy because it works as a reimbursement program and not as an insurance company.

So if you're on Medicare and you want a hip replacement, you can just shop around for Doctors who will accept the reimbursement rates. What the IPAB will do is decide which procedures are necessary or unecessary based on what the IPAB says.

This is what Obama is talking about when he says Doctors are giving out too much Medicine and we need to reduce the volume of healthcare. Well you can't reduce the volume of healthcare because Doctors are not Psychic.

When you go to a Doctor they have to run test to rule certain things out and try to find the problem. I'm sure when the Obama's go to the Doctor he doesn't want the Doctor to reduce the volume.

For instance, I had a friend who went to the Doctor because he had a headache that wouldn't go away. The Doctors ran tests and they found it was a tumor. They caught it early but under Obamacare the Doctors will not do the tests on my friend. This is because if they do the test and it's not a tumor they will be seen as giving out too much healthcare by the IPAB and they will suffer penalties or lower reimbursement rates.

This is a huge threat to Seniors and all Americans. One reason they want to control aging is because of S.S. and Medicare. These programs are built like a Pyramid. You need more workers at the bottom of the pyramid to pay out the benefits for those retiring at the top of the pyramid. When people start living longer and life expectancy increases, the pyramid begins to turn into a diamond and there's not enough workers to support those retiring. Democrats don't want to change the programs, they want to slow life expectancy down by rationing healthcare.

The Independent Payment Advisory Board is the biggest threat to the United States. Bigger than the individual mandate. It reminds me of what Progressive George Bernard Shaw said. He said people should have to come before a board and show their worth to the state or get gassed to death In this case the IPAB will decide which procedures are necessary and which ones are unecessary not the individual and their Doctor. Also, if the IPAB says you can't get the procedure done, you can't go to another Doctor in the United States to get the procedure done. You will have to go outside of the United States to get the procedure done.

Here's more about the IPAB:

In his health care speech at the Hoover Institution, Paul Ryan not only laid out his plans “to confront health care inflation head-on” but also discussed President Obama’s approach to dealing with rising health costs, which mostly amounts to price controls imposed by an ominous, unelected, quasi-legislative board. Here’s what Ryan had to say about Obama’s approach:

“Just last week, the president rolled out a deficit reduction plan that doubled down on his bureaucratic approach to controlling Medicare costs, first advanced in his health care law last year.

“The law empowers a board of 15 unelected officials — the Independent Payment Advisory Board, or IPAB — to hold the growth of Medicare spending to GDP plus 1 percent by reducing reimbursements to health-care providers. Unless overturned by a supermajority in Congress, the recommended cuts dictated by this board become law.

“The president’s latest proposal…called for letting IPAB cut deeper. This board of bureaucrats will now be tasked with holding Medicare’s growth rate to GDP plus half a percent. To put that in context, Medicare is currently growing at 6.3 percent per year.

“Medicare’s non-partisan chief actuary, Richard Foster, has been clear on this point: Going from 6 percent growth down to the President’s targets, using only the blunt tools that his law gives to IPAB, would simply drive Medicare providers out of business, resulting in harsh disruptions and denied care for seniors.”

Here's a video of Obama talking to a woman about her 105 year old mother who just wanted to live longer and she found a Doctor to do the surgery that helped her. Obama says in these situations taking a pain pill might be better than getting the surgery. He also talks about Doctors reducing tests. These are all things that will be decided from Washington by the IPAB.

The IPAB is the most ghoulish thing I have seen coming out of Obamacare. It's specifically designed to slow the growth of life expectancy through the IPAB.

posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 01:18 PM
Obama-uncaring, also favors the wealthy who can afford more expensive treatment to ensure a better quality of life.

Which of course, he himself, is a member of....those evil wealthy people he riles against so much while campaigning


posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 01:22 PM
Where did Obama say he wanted to "reduce the volume of healthcare"? I'm having a hard time finding that statement.

What he's actually talking about when he refers to taking a pill instead of having surgery, is a very well-accepted fact in the medical field that invasive surgery can often be more detrimental to a patient's health (especially an elderly patient), than not having the surgery at all.

I went through this with my own father when he was suffering with pancreatic cancer. He elected to have a surgery done that was not fully recommended, and he died within a week from complications. I understand that my father had a strong will to live, and it's hard for me to type this. All humans have a strong desire to live at all costs, and in our survival instincts we often do things that are more detrimental to our health than beneficial. In the end, he would most likely have died more comfortably if he had not had the surgery done.

posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 01:37 PM
IPAB sounds like the death panel we keep hearing about.

I don't want my Grandmother dropped over a cliff by a bureaucratic boondoggle.

They make mistakes and then offer excuses.

All they will do is say "We are deeply sorry for your loss".

and, "there's always somebody that slips through the cracks".

and, "we can't do everything for everybody, who do you think we are?".

and, "we are taking steps to ensure this never ever happens again".

or, "we are taking disciplinary actions against the employees who made the fatal error".

along with a hundred other excuses for failure.

I say repeal the IPAB.

posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 01:50 PM
reply to post by xuenchen


Watch this video about Ezekiel Emanuel, Rahm Emanuel's brother who helped with these Death Panels, as he is questioned. The whole push is to reduce healthcare especially for the elderly and those who are really ill, by rationing healthcare to them because a big percentage of healthcare cost is for the elderly and those who are very ill. This rationing is to try and control healthcare cost in a very ghoulish way.

My father died after getting a procedure he didn't have to get. He could have just kept taking pills. He slipped into a coma and died after surgery.

At the end of the day, it was his CHOICE. Under Obamacare he would not have this choice. It will be decided for him by the IPAB. This board is truly a threat to Seniors and the weakest and sickest among us.

posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 01:54 PM
reply to post by neoholographic

Sorry about your loss.

I agree, Choice or No Choice. Which one would ANYONE want ? I don't know anyone that doesn't want to choose.

posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 09:25 PM
yes it is a death panel. dems want to ration healthcare to seniors so that social security lasts a little longer. and to get rid of those pesky republican voters.

posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 10:31 PM
Just to play devil's advocate here:

How do you feel about someone's 86 year old mother, who has been in a vegetative state for 5 years, is pain-racked with bed sore's and contractions and the family still demands that everything be done to keep their mother alive? Yearly cost is about $175,000.

Now that health care is "free" - no one wants to make the hard decision of letting their loved ones go - but are we really doing anyone a favor by giving such expensive care to someone who will never recover any quality of life and in fact has had no quality of life for the last 5 years. Just because we CAN keep someone alive, should we?

How do you feel about perfectly healthy people demanding expensive (over $500.00 a pop) tests like determining their vitamin D level so "they can sure"? Or MRI's just to be "sure" that they don't have a tumor somewhere that isn't causing them any symptoms yet?

These people are the "worried well". These people are continually draining health services, even though they feel perfectly fine, for the sole purpose of "making sure".

We still have children to educate, infrastructure to build and maintain, services to provide etc. How much health care can we as a whole actually afford?

Tired of Control Freaks

posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 10:37 PM
I don't think blaming the victim is going to fly
it is a common tactic
like blaming the peeps for global warming when global warming doesn't exist..
then trying to institute control taxes over them to deal with the non existant problem

problem reaction solution
which is a fancy way of saying
death panel

posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 11:22 PM

Originally posted by xuenchen
IPAB sounds like the death panel we keep hearing about.

You people are so full of crap. I have no clue what you think you are reading and watching but death panels? Really? You already have them and they are run by Republicans.

posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 11:27 PM

Originally posted by neoholographic
At the end of the day, it was his CHOICE. Under Obamacare he would not have this choice. It will be decided for him by the IPAB. This board is truly a threat to Seniors and the weakest and sickest among us.

Wait a minute.
You are saying your dad made a bad choice.
You are also saying that Obamacare is going to force other people like your dad to make the same choice he made without Obamacare?
Oh ok.

posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 11:35 PM

Originally posted by habitforming

Originally posted by xuenchen
IPAB sounds like the death panel we keep hearing about.

You people are so full of crap. I have no clue what you think you are reading and watching but death panels? Really? You already have them and they are run by Republicans.

same to you

its a bi partisan kinda thing
n'est pas?
edit on 30-6-2012 by Danbones because: (no reason given)

posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 11:37 PM
reply to post by Danbones

This sickens me!! In my opinion..I think you should do everything possible to keep someone alive and happy!! There are 2 main rules in life- Dont mess with the elderly, and dont mess with children! These so-called cost to keep someone alive..Give me a Break!! They just make up bogus cost at whatever they want...For example- A feeding tube..great technology and easy to take care of. The tube has to be replaced every year..easy to operate..set a rate and hit on..cost of food..cant be that much..Some nurses have this opinion..just let them pass opinion..Keep them alive and make them happy! I take care of the elderly..and I will be damn if anyone is going to hurt them or neglect them in my care!! I am having to fight for antibotics for several of my residents has been two weeks..the idiot doctor just wants as many doctors visits as he can get out of them. I am sick of all of this. Take this panel and shove it!! You can also forget the RFID..It is not going to happen in this country. I am out working on the front lines..I see what is going on. All the residents that I care for have worked all their lives to have something..they should get the best care possible!! If all they get to do is watch tv and eat..leave them the heck alone. Dont give me that bull# about cost.

posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 11:48 PM
we were warned of this back with Terry Schiavo (sp?)

Obamacare Ruling Reflects Technocratic Imperative
from the link below in the above page:

Why is anyone surprised? Obamacare was never going to be overturned. Not that it is constitutional, as the Constitution was originally conceived. It surely isn’t. But that Constitution has been terminally ill for a long time. Now it is dead.

Why would the Supreme Court’s conservative chief justice rewrite the individual mandate’s penalty to be a tax, when the law’s authors unequivocally stated it was not a revenue generator during the legislative process? Let’s call it the “technocratic imperative” — faith in big government solutions for societal problems — a mindset that generates a far stronger gravitational pull than the standard conservative/liberal paradigm. The technocratic imperative is why, when push comes to shove, conservative judges almost always move “left” and liberal judges almost never move “right.”

The case was always about two contrasting approaches to law and government. Opponents of Obamacare mounted a legal challenge to the individual mandate. They argued that the government does not have the constitutional authority to force Americans to buy anything, and indeed that such a legal compulsion is unprecedented in American history.

Proponents responded with a strong policy defense: They argued that a modern state must have universal health coverage. In a private system, without the mandate, people will wait until they are sick before buying insurance, which would cause a financial collapse. Because the majority of the court favored the policy — even though Chief Justice John Roberts disingenuously claimed that wasn’t his concern — the majority simply rewrote the law to make it appear to fit established constitutional paradigms.

there is a very important part of a person, and their family's life at stake here, as well as the mile that gets taken after the inch...
85 percents have to go says the 1 percent that figures its above the law

edit on 30-6-2012 by Danbones because: (no reason given)

posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 12:21 AM
For those that think such a thing couldn't possibly happen, look no further than Obama's chosen czar, Cass Sunstein, administrator for Information and Regulatory Affairs.

He has a very bureaucratic heartless way of approaching this issue, imo.

(quoted from

The pro-life group Eagle Forum also released analysis of Sunstein’s positions and determined that he regards euthanasia as a major component of health care legislation and supports loosening regulations on organ donation. In the article WND covered, Eagle Forum notes Sunstein advocates for government bureaucracy to rely on the “value of a statistical life year” when doing cost-benefit analysis as opposed to the “value of a statistical life.” That would lead to health care decisions involving rationing and euthanasia. He states that this would “likely result in significantly lower [health] benefits calculations for elderly people, and significantly higher benefits calculations for children.” He states: “I urge that the government should indeed focus on life-years rather than lives. A program that saves young people produces more welfare than one that saves old people.”

edit on 1-7-2012 by queenofswords because: (no reason given)

edit on 1-7-2012 by queenofswords because: (no reason given)

posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 12:43 AM
We have relinquished our right to self-determination.

Our right to seek treatment, our right to not seek treatment, our right to choose.

Our right to what we want with our own bodies, is now gone.

The "death panel" sits in the oval office.

posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 12:55 AM
Obama sure likes unelected officials. (czars)

posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 01:23 AM
reply to post by yellowsnow

Obama would never have unelected officials, and they definitely would not be czars


posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 01:35 AM
For those in the UK and other places where Universal healthcare is practiced and claim to have a great system, check out this article...the elderly do not get the care they need because they don't need it enough....

posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 01:59 AM
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

Yeah, old people die in the streets all the time over in Europe.
Oh, wait. They actually live longer healthier lives than Americans.
Stop posting lies just because you hate being so scared alone. You want people to be scared with you. You have no clue what you are scared of so you have to make something up.

It is not getting you anywhere, is it? See if any of you had a legit argument against HCR, it might not have passed. Instead you sat around crying about imaginary death panels and saying "Socialism" so often that it might accidentally actually apply once or twice.

Grow a pair and be a #ing man for crying out loud. Stop being so scared and stop lying to make other people come be scared with you.

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