Timbuktu shrines damaged by Mali Ansar Dine Islamists

reply to post by Rocketman7


To make a long story short, pony up ya cheapskates. You haven't paid your entry fee into the new trade network.
44 billion and you can pay for Canada's share because we are poor and we will just be satisfied to be the shadow of your shadow. We're in this together right? BFF to the end. Don't tase me bro. lol

Countries in Africa, have chipped in ok? I am not trying to make you look bad, just sayin.

Now you could say you are broke, you can't afford it, except I help do your budget so I know better.

There is no 'cheapskate' in team.

The fact is why would you not want in on such a lucrative exciting opportunity guaranteed to be the biggest show the world has seen for some time and the brainiacs gather to create a new system, and new jobs and economic growth globally thrives.

Am i going to stick to slow growth? Not if we do this. Since with this system of supply and demand we can counteract inflation.
So then we will go to moderate growth. And good growth in areas that today are being hit hard.
But keep in mind we are a trade network, and not the Salvation army.

reply to post by Rocketman7


So what else is in it for you?

Well your Ally in the Middle East, Israel, you could have a contact point there to the Silk Road. SO what I have been doing is working on a land purchase deal for the West Bank, and have managed to get Egypt poised to govern the Gaza strip.
In whatever fashion the two parties agree on as long as they start thinking in terms of business and trade.

Se we will build a hub in Israel, and maybe a port or something in Gaza, I am not sure how feasible it is to build a port but we could do some development. For commerce in Gaza. And a hub or two in Egypt.

And we might build a hub near Haifa.
And we will assist in ways to help Israel turn the West Bank into agricultural land.

Syria we will put a hub around Tartus. And Turkey will have one at least and Greece and Cyprus and Barcelona or wherever they choose because you see they decide, and THEY donate the land.
We develop if their location is reasonable and I expect they would ask experts so why would we disagree?

So then along with the Middle East we have to do Europe and Scandinavia.
And Russia and the Baltics wherever there are goods to market and buyers to be had.

Does it have to be 5 billion? Yes. Otherwise its a node, and not a hub. But the builders of the hub, can select to build nodes, but then we will have to raise more money and follow a plan. They would just be smaller shipping depots. But with connectivity.

So you see we can revitalize that entire area quite easily with a series of new trade hubs.
And tie that in to work in progress on the Silk Road.
Brazil has invested and South America can also have hubs. Hubs of opportunity to expand global markets and to ease trade barriers. Remove red tape. No one wants to wait for 2 weeks while a shipment clears customs.
You cannot do business like that.

reply to post by Rocketman7


Israel needs 40 billion for the land purchase deal in the form of a loan, if they decide to pursue it. 10,000 per person and then the entire land mass become part of Israel and they get a citizenship option or must move. If they want citizenship they can then use that 10,000 to purchase a parcel of land the size of which is dependant on a typical family of 4. So 40,000 buys a piece of land.
A further 10,000 per person in two lump sum payments of 5,000 parents receiving the children's money. And they can start a business or a farm or build a house or sell and move whatever they want.

So then Israel should recoup the initial 10,000 per in land sales over time of whatever variety.

And the increase in tax base also over time. And the people will spend the money mostly locally.
Then its all Israel and we can invest in a hub or two.

Without that we cannot. Not politically correct enough.
So we would have to just postpone Israel's hub until they can get it together diplomatically.

Will that be true elsewhere yes. We want to create business not get in the middle of conflict.

And since its just a loan, but a symbolic gesture, America can arrange for that loan.
The first half and the IMF will contribute to the second. Just an act of goodwill.

Oh yes the Settlements. As it is on the ground the day of the census that will determine who resides in the West Bank who will receive the buy out package.
Presently we have tightened security so people will not jump the fence to get in and claim residency.
So the Settlements may purchase their land at the same price as the new citizens. But Israel will give them a low long term mortgage. Obviously they won't be paid the buyout funds.

Difficult areas around Jerusalem? Make a deal. You want to let that stand in the way of trade and commerce?

Lets suppose they are just too dug in and don't want to be citizens in Jerusalem but you do business with them all the time. Well then grant them a permanent visa.

reply to post by Rocketman7


So thats our exit strategy from my viewpoint.

As for CNN, well they are in tears, that they have nothing to report. And ratings are way down.

But there will be business reporting a plenty to do and even room for a spawned network that captures where supply meets demand, and where investors, find opportunities, ready to be picked and plucked.

7 billion people in the world today. Thats a lot of interesting goings on when you have a global perspective. The BBC has a very global perspective.

reply to post by Rocketman7


What are the alternatives to you putting in 44 billion into a trade organization and Israel being your trading partner connector in the Middle East? Well you have Greece and Cyprus and all the rest, Turkey is in NATO.
But keep in mind Microsoft got bombed in Greece last week when they tried to get their fine lessened.

However, you have to keep in mind that for many people, we are already there. That is to say we can click, and we can shop, where we want. And that means we don't have to shop in America if the deals aren't there or the red tape is too great.

Thus far America has been competitive but cannot directly compete with China, and much of Asia.
Europe is slightly more expensive than America.

But you see we can shop wherever we want. And as shipping improves, we shop more in faraway places.
Its a competitive world.

So for instance many of us normal consumers do not really care. Business and commerce cares.
They want to expand and find new markets and find more consumers.

Those countries which can come to agreement and relax trade practices, will of course be making more money.

If you go shopping on-line you are going to do what consumers do, try to get the best deal.
If you want to stay competitive, then you need to encourage trade and commerce otherwise sales drop off.
You can go to protectionism, but that is going against the rest of the world.
They will just go around you.

So 90 hubs of the same size like a franchise levels the playing field and provides equal opportunity.
To a certain degree of course. If a country builds a city around one, well thats progress.

ok can someone please explain
Muslum vs Islamist

maybe a CGI,,,lol,,
Thought it was the same.


A Christian.

reply to post by Rocketman7


Tar sands? lol plenty of oil in them thar hills.

You see I am proposing we do this not because we need to, but because we want to. Scientific endeavors advance civilization. Automation and robotics.
The alternate method of trying to maintain the status quo by restricting shipping, to try to balance trade, is not helping places like Stockton California, or Greece or numerous other places.

Where I sit unemployment is 5 percent, I saw a sandwich board on the sidewalk on my way home, help wanted.
Not a restaurant. An air conditioning shop.
Real Estate stable, supply and demand working as it should with respect to rents, and vacancies, we are running this economy, like a swiss watch. Our banking is the best in the world right now.
So we are on the other side of the world from all that and enjoy trade with Asia every day.
Pacific rim. We have been working on relations with the Pacific Rim countries for over 30 years. But the big push has been within the last 20.
And somehow, Canada is competing with Asia, and sells as much Canadian manufactured products as China in our dollar stores. And we sell goods on-line as cheap as you can get name brand products anywhere in the world. And in some cases even the least expensive with maybe a low markup and high volume sales drop ship type company with real good Asian and Canadian connections.
Its incredible.

Thats what they have to look forward to on the Silk Road.
Trade is mutually beneficial.

Essentially since I steer the global economy, usually, I don't have any other options to offer other than do your own thing which may be all you want to do except, remember your people are out of work.

reply to post by Rocketman7


How do you handle the face eaters? With hand waving if you have the power.

Otherwise I guess you will just have to do the best you can.

reply to post by Rocketman7


Economically speaking, if you restrict trade routes, then you put your own people and others out of work.

The more customers you can come in contact with, the more product you will sell, and the easier it will be to find buyers. That is the same in America, as a country, or any trading pact.
So you want to connect with as many people as you can and look at them as individuals not countries because in every country, there are rich and poor people, but there may be customers.
And if you buy their goods, now they have money, and they may buy yours.

The system is almost organic in its methods of self correction. The more you interfere with that, the more you have to adopt it completely. Like an ecosystem where if you change one thing you change a series of things.

So thats why the plan is infrastructure, in the form of hubs, since infrastructure does not control trade it facilitates trade.

Originally posted by BobAthome
ok can someone please explain
Muslum vs Islamist

maybe a CGI,,,lol,,
Thought it was the same.

A Christian.

We can only build hypothesis based on a majority of its follower’s beliefs.
When dealing with Islam, most Muslims will be glad to open the revolving door of interpretation for you
Islam is used to describe a false religion
Muslim is used to describe practicers of a false religion


www.differencebetween.net...

Text
Uses of Islam and Muslim

• Islam is generally used in conversation to denote the religion or community of believes as a whole. For instance: ‘The Islamic community in town will be celebrating Eid next week.’ It is also used when talking about the religion as a noun unto itself. For instance: ‘Islam is based on the sayings of the Prophet Mohammed that have been written down in the Quran.’
•Muslim is generally used in conversation to qualify or distinguish a person. For instance, ‘Remember the Muslim man who works at the bank?’ It can also be used as a simple description of one’s religious beliefs. For instance: ‘He is Christian but she is Muslim.’ Because Muslims are a minority community in many countries and most of the West, describing someone as Muslim may also reflect on their lifestyle and choice of dress in addition to their religious beliefs.


Read more: Difference Between Islam and Muslim

edit on 1-7-2012 by redneck13 because: .

Originally posted by redneck13

Originally posted by petrus4

Originally posted by redneck13
Ho hum same old story from Islam, destroy all other religions and those that do not believe.
Don’t hold your breath waiting for all the moderate peace loving Muslims to condemn these actions

Yep. Thank God for radical Islam. If it wasn't for the likes of the Taliban and Al Qaeda, we might need to find another threat; and if we couldn't find one, we might have to give up perpetual war as a lifestyle choice; and then what would we do?

Actually, it would be refreshing to go back to a cold war; there is much less loss of human life.

I respect this.

reply to post by redneck13

Actually, it would be refreshing to go back to a cold war; there is much less loss of human life.

There were constant "hot wars" going on during this period, many of them fueled by or involving directly both sides of the Cold War i.e. Congo, Afghanistan, Korea, Vietnam/Cambodia/Laos, Central/Southern America.

Back to this story. Some more words from Ansar Dine on their crimes.

Islamist rebels occupying the ancient city of Timbuktu in Mali have vowed to smash every mausoleum, in the face of international protests. A spokesman for the Ansar Dine group, Sanda Ould Boumama, said it would "destroy every mausoleum in the city - all of them, without exception".

Another spokesman for Ansar Dine, Oumar Ould Hamaha, told Reuters news agency by phone: "We are subject to religion and not to international opinion "Building on graves is contrary to Islam. We are destroying the mausoleums because it is ordained by our religion."

www.bbc.co.uk...

Attempted PR I suppose from Ansar Dine, I find it quite funny that they have spokesmen at all. It's like everyone thinks you're mental.

Continued destruction of Mali shrines called 'war crime'


Members of the group Ansar Dine have destroyed the mausoleums of Sufi saints in Timbuktu for a second day.

Sunday's destruction, utilising pick axes and guns, comes after a statement by the International Criminal Court (ICC), calling the on-going campaign of destruction of ancient Islamic shrines in northern Mali "a war crime".

Yaya Tandina, a local journalist, told the Reuters news agency that about 30 members of the group, armed with Kalashnikovs and pick-axes destroyed three mausoleums of saints.

"They had armed men guarding the door. Just like yesterday, the population did not react. They [local people] said we need to let them [Ansar Dine] do what they want, hoping that someday we will rebuild the tombs," Tandina said.

reply to post by redneck13


Horrendous. Even more destruction reported today.

Al Qaeda-linked Islamists in Timbuktu broke down the door to a 15th century mosque on Monday that locals believed had to stay shut until the end of the world, defying international calls to halt the destruction of holy sites in the UNESCO-listed city. In a third day of attacks on historic and religious landmarks that UNESCO has called "wanton destruction", the Islamists targeted the ancient Sidi Yahya mosque as they tried to erase traces of what they regard as un-Islamic idolatry.

"In legend, it is said that the main gate of Sidi Yahya mosque will not be opened until the last day (of the world)," Alpha Abdoulahi, the town imam, told Reuters by telephone. Yet eight Islamist fighters had smashed down the door to the mosque early on Monday, saying they wanted to "destroy the mystery" of the ancient entrance, he said. "They offered me 50,000 CFA ($100) for repairs but I refused to take the money, saying that what they did is irreparable."

www.france24.com...

Destroyed this 500 year old door and then offered money for the repairs? Bizarre behavior.

reply to post by Peruvianmonk


The thinking of Mohammed, remove the existence of all other religions, since Islam is the youngest major religion anything older is seen as a threat. It amazing how they get all that done and pray five times a day as well. Better get rested up we have some more ancient heritage to destroy tomorrow.

Wait until they try Mt. Rushmore

Time magazine offers some reasons for the destruction of the shrines. Sufism appears to be a sect of Islam that the Salafists wish to put an end to. Sectarianism, the bane of religions.

In the puritanical strain of Islam adhered to by Ansar Dine (and the Taliban), veneration of Sufi saints counts as idolatry, a heretical practice that cannot be tolerated.

But beyond scolding the Islamists of the Sahel, there’s little anyone can do to stop this wretched bout of iconoclasm. History is littered with the debris of toppled temples and smashed idols. Salafists and others who believe in a more orthodox brand of Islam harbor a particular animosity toward Sufism, whose mystical interpretation of the divine affords a more heterodox faith, steeped sometimes in local pre-Islamic traditions and a reverence for saints and deceased wise men. Islam, as it spread outside the Arabian world, did so in large part through the peaceful teachings of Sufi orders and wandering mendicants — not just under the hooves of conquering Arab armies.

Yet, recently, Sufi shrines have come under attack from emboldened and radicalized puritans in countries like Egypt and Libya; in Pakistan, the Taliban and its affiliates have waged a sectarian war on Sufis, systematically targeting dozens of tombs and Sufi sites, while killing hundreds of devotees.

world.time.com...

With the help of Al-Qaeda, the taking of hostages, and the planting of land mines, those proud young men will most assuredly get the good work of the Lord done. There is just no end to the great missionary work carried out by Islam. It gives you such a warm feeling inside

Text
BAMAKO: Islamist rebels smashed the entrance of a 15th-century Timbuktu mosque on Monday, while their Al-Qaeda allies in northern Mali cut off the key city of Gao by planting landmines all around it.

In Timbuktu, rebels from the Al-Qaeda-allied Ansar Dine (Defenders of Faith) group continued their destruction of the city's cultural treasures, defying a chorus of international condemnation.

Some residents sobbed as the Islamists broke down the "sacred door" of one of Timbuktu's three ancient mosques, Sidi Yahya -- closed for centuries due to local beliefs that to open it would bring misfortune.

In Gao meanwhile, two sources said Al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb (AQIM) and its allies had planted mines around the city, with one Tuareg rebel spokesman accusing the militants of taking the city hostage.

Mossa Ag Attaher, spokesman for the Tuareg rebel National Movement for the Liberation of Azawad (MNLA), which until recently shared control of Gao with the Islamists, said the rebels had mined the area.

AQIM, he said, was "using the population as hostages, as a human shield to protect itself from an MNLA counter-attack."

The North African Al-Qaeda franchise and its offshoot Movement for Oneness and Jihad in West Africa (MUJAO) forced their former MNLA allies out of the city in deadly clashes last week.

"Many people are trying to escape, to take the bus to go to Bamako, but the Islamists are stopping them," said Attaher, the MNLA's Paris-based spokesman.

http ://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/

reply to post by redneck13

There is just no end to the great missionary work carried out by Islam

It is unfair to equate the whole religion with these extremists. Islam is extremely patriarchal, like all religions, which is completely unacceptable but the vast majority just get on with their unabashed commitment to a make believe entity in a peaceful manner.

reply to post by Peruvianmonk


Indeed

Not all Christians think the world was created in 4004BC, that anyone who administers herbal medicine should be burnt at the stake and that those who say the Earth is not the centre of the universe should be encased in an iron maiden.

As much as we despise it, what these Muslims are doing to other Muslims is no different to what Christians have been doing to Christians for 2,000 years - though IMHO Abraham, Jesus and Mohammed will be hanging their heads in shame.

Sadly, when religious arrogance comes to the fore, everyone suffers.

reply to post by AndyMayhew


Yeh, male arrogance. Women don't even really get the chance to be extremists!

Down with the patriarchy.