Timbuktu shrines damaged by Mali Ansar Dine Islamists

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posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 08:42 AM
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Timbuktu shrines damaged by Mali Ansar Dine Islamists


www.bbc.co.uk

Islamist fighters in Mali have damaged at least one Muslim saint's shrine in the city of Timbuktu, witnesses say.

The fighters, from the Ansar Dine group, which controls much of northern Mali, attacked the mausoleum of Sidi Mahmoud, one of 16 shrines in the city.

Last week, the UN cultural organisation Unesco put Timbuktu on its list of endangered world heritage sites, fearing damage following the coup which toppled the Malian government in March.

Islamists regard shrines as idolatrous.
(visit the link for the full news article)


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[url=http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread837782/pg1]In Show of Strength, Islamists begin destroying Timbuktu's U.N. World Heritage sites...




posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 08:42 AM
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Hmmm not good. Obviously the people being harmed in this conflict is of greater importance, but this is such a cherished world site that almost everyone is aware of.

Would be a massive shame to see it destroyed.


Ansar Dine spokesman Sanda Ould Boumama told the AFP news agency the shrines would be destroyed, "all of them, without exception". He went on: "God is unique. All of this is haram (forbidden in Islam). We are all Muslims. Unesco is what?"


www.google.com...

What a dick. The Islamists groups such as Ansar Dine look to be taking control of the battle against the government from the Taureg rebels who want their own state.

Could this kind of attack on a Unesco site be used as a pretext for the UN to intervene? Just this month there has been an attempt and the UN is considering the request from the AU.


The Security Council said today it will further examine a request for a United Nations mandate for the deployment of an African stabilization force to Mali, which has been beset by political instability and insecurity since earlier this year.


www.un.org...

www.bbc.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)
edit on 30-6-2012 by Peruvianmonk because: Added information



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 08:49 AM
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This seems odd. If the shrine is that of a Muslim saint, does it make sense for Muslims to attack it?

I would suspect that there is probably more to this story than we are being told. The Taliban defiling Buddhist statues in the name of Islamic religious imperialism was predictable, if vile; but for Islamic extremists to destroy the shrines of their own saints does not compute.
edit on 30-6-2012 by petrus4 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 08:57 AM
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Their supposed reasoning does not make any sense. If they truely believe that would they not tear down the dome on the rock?



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 09:04 AM
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reply to post by petrus4
 


The spokesmen refers to it as Harem, apparently forbidden in Islam


Harem (Turkish, from Arabic: حرم‎ ḥaram "forbidden place; sacrosanct, sanctum", related to حريم ḥarīm, "a sacred inviolable place; female members of the family" and حرام ḥarām, "forbidden; sacred") refers to the sphere of women in what is usually a polygynous household and their enclosed quarters which are forbidden to men


en.wikipedia.org...

I am not going to pretend to understand what exactly these Islamists mean by this. Can anyone shed any light on the shrines at Timbuktu and their connotations etc?
edit on 30-6-2012 by Peruvianmonk because: Spelling



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 09:15 AM
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Originally posted by Peruvianmonk
Timbuktu shrines damaged by Mali Ansar Dine Islamists


There is a long history of Islamists destroying monuments.

The nose of the Sphinx was apparently shot off by a Muslim fanatic annoyed that the Sphinx depicted a human face (which isn't allowed in Islam).


Egyptian historian al-Maqrizi wrote in the 15th century.

He says that the nose was destroyed in, 1378, by a Sufi fanatic by the name of Muhammad Sa'im al-Dahr, who enraged by the lifelike representation of a human face he ordered the nose removed as it was something that was expressly forbidden by Islam.

Link


edit on 30-6-2012 by ollncasino because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 09:17 AM
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reply to post by petrus4
 

I could easily be wrong, but remember that even flattering pictures of Mohammed are banned.

Islamists regard shrines as idolatrous. However, some Muslims, especially Sufis, regard them as an accepted part of Muslim worship.
From the OP source.

It's a three way war, between Islamists, not entirely crazy Muslims, and the world of science, history and culture. Only one of those three forces are prepared to use violence, so they are winning. (If you can call that "winning.") They have also torn up many shrines in the city of Medina.



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 09:32 AM
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reply to post by Peruvianmonk
 


The shrine in question is the burial place of a Sufi scholar called Sidi Mahmoud Ben Amar who died in 1548.

en.wikipedia.org...

Sufism is considered by many to be an esoteric interpretation of Islam and is frowned upon by many strict and orthodox Muslims, both Shia and Sunni - even though Sufi's can also be Shia or Sunni themselves - it's all quite complicated to anyone not really versed in the intricacies of the various Islamic denominations etc.

Sufism is particularly common in North Western Africa.

en.wikipedia.org...

Ansar Dine are a group of extremist Sunni Muslims.

en.wikipedia.org...

ETA.
All Muslim extremists view any form of idolatory a grave sin.
edit on 30/6/12 by Freeborn because: Add ETA



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 09:34 AM
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Originally posted by charles1952
It's a three way war, between Islamists, not entirely crazy Muslims, and the world of science, history and culture.


Between crazy Islamists and Muslims or between Arabic Islamists and Mali Islamists I wonder?

In North Africa the African and Arab civilisation collide. The Arabs wish to rule supreme over lesser non-Arab Muslims. I wonder if that is a factor at work in Mali?



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 09:40 AM
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reply to post by Freeborn
 

I'm more than willing to admit to vast ignorance on Islamic anything.

Ansar Dine are a group of extremist Sunni Muslims.
Another group of extremist Muslims? I think I've counted elbenty zillion of them. How in the world can they claim that we're at war with their culture and history when they're destroying it faster than we can?

I'm sorry, they just frustrate me.



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 10:04 AM
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Why i am not surprised Islamists destroying anything that is historical.



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 10:23 AM
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i think that ultimately it will be revealed that the group responsible believes in nothing.

if given enough time, their laws will cause the destruction of their own home.

their people will die of starvation.

and eventually even the ones that initiated the whole event will succumb to themselves.



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 06:43 PM
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reply to post by ollncasino
 


It makes one wonder if the saying "cut off your own nose to spite your face" came from that.



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 07:12 PM
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Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by charles1952
It's a three way war, between Islamists, not entirely crazy Muslims, and the world of science, history and culture.


Between crazy Islamists and Muslims or between Arabic Islamists and Mali Islamists I wonder?

In North Africa the African and Arab civilisation collide. The Arabs wish to rule supreme over lesser non-Arab Muslims. I wonder if that is a factor at work in Mali?


Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius.

Olln, I suspect this philosophy would be more to your liking, where Muslims are concerned.



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 07:19 PM
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Originally posted by petrus4
This seems odd. If the shrine is that of a Muslim saint, does it make sense for Muslims to attack it?

I would suspect that there is probably more to this story than we are being told. The Taliban defiling Buddhist statues in the name of Islamic religious imperialism was predictable, if vile; but for Islamic extremists to destroy the shrines of their own saints does not compute.
edit on 30-6-2012 by petrus4 because: (no reason given)


Look at all the Shia Sunni violence in Iraq , blowing up competing mosques where each sect believed the Mahadi would come from . It is easy to take quotes from the Koran and use them for whatever purpose they want , just get some no name imam to call it jihad and away they go killing or being killed for a path to heaven with all the toppings , Virgins, intercessor status for 70 family members and little boys as sweet as pearls .



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 07:26 PM
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.Ho hum same old story from Islam, destroy all other religions and those that do not believe.
Don’t hold your breath waiting for all the hords of moderate peace loving Muslims all over the world to step foward and condemn these actions

Afghanistan Taliban Muslims destroying Bamiyan Buddha Statues

They were dynamited and destroyed in March 2001 by the Taliban, on orders from leader Mullah Mohammed Omar, after the Taliban government declared that they were "idols".International opinion strongly condemned the destruction of the Buddhas, which was viewed as an example of the intolerance of the Taliban. Japan and Switzerland, among others, have pledged support for the rebuilding of the statues.



Historic footage of Bamiyan statues

A sequence on the Bamiyan statues from "Adventure in Afghanistan" from Hal, Halla and David Linker's television travelogue series, "The Wild, the Weird, and the Wonderful", circa 1973. The Cultural Landscape and Archaeological Remains of the Bamiyan Valley was named a UNESCO World Heritage Site in 2003;
edit on 30-6-2012 by redneck13 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 07:31 PM
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Originally posted by redneck13
Ho hum same old story from Islam, destroy all other religions and those that do not believe.
Don’t hold your breath waiting for all the moderate peace loving Muslims to condemn these actions


Yep. Thank God for radical Islam. If it wasn't for the likes of the Taliban and Al Qaeda, we might need to find another threat; and if we couldn't find one, we might have to give up perpetual war as a lifestyle choice; and then what would we do?



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 07:44 PM
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How far out in left field IS Timbuktu?

Mausoleums in the desert? Not a lot of tourist potential except for determined Islamic scholars.

Do you mean the plan to send the standing army to Timbuktu? How did that get leaked???

Well they have already been 'over there' and 'over there' and they have even been to Tiperary.

Well last I heard they wanted a change of terrain. They have spent a lot of years in the desert.
And we don't want to turn them into mercenaries.

So you are looking at Northern Alberta, and places like that for training and some games and well wherever you can get an invite to do some games. I would think South America might be open to some sort of keep busy kind of war games and cooperation at least then we are working towards securing the hemisphere. Just for something to do.
Africa as you know tends to get messy since the proper way to deal with them is from an approach that is on their civilization level. Through economic trade for instance. They are quite poor.

But we can shift people into the UN and keep paying their wages. Where we need the UN.
On loan. And train some for disaster relief programs. You just need to spread them out a bit and get them casual but smart and suitable uniforms. Blend in a bit.



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 07:56 PM
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Originally posted by petrus4

Originally posted by redneck13
Ho hum same old story from Islam, destroy all other religions and those that do not believe.
Don’t hold your breath waiting for all the moderate peace loving Muslims to condemn these actions


Yep. Thank God for radical Islam. If it wasn't for the likes of the Taliban and Al Qaeda, we might need to find another threat; and if we couldn't find one, we might have to give up perpetual war as a lifestyle choice; and then what would we do?


Actually, it would be refreshing to go back to a cold war; there is much less loss of human life.



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 08:11 PM
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reply to post by Rocketman7
 


So then how many military personnel would we be able to employ? Lots I am sure. From all G20 countries that have a standing army.

As long as they don't look too militaristic. We can use them in transportation, communications, logistics, and security, and some management positions of course.

What about accusations of spying? Well every day delivery men and women have to deliver parcels and packages and shipments of food and mail around the world and they just stay disinterested in the contents. Its just a job.

But to make things easier, we will isolate the network, which means issue everyone a security pass and the system does not support passenger traffic. So its just shipping and receiving of goods as one small part of a global system of shipping goods.
Same trucks and vans as the other guys different color uniforms.
This network will also be isolated from the general public to a degree. Encrypted data transfer mostly.
Its a business network and business has to go on or else people can't feed themselves or their families.
Governments will still have borders, but together we will try to remove those for our shipping routes and our trade routes in general.

You see we can't fix the world, but we can build a little efficient network for business. A new global trade network, and if we succeed, then it may be the crowning achievement to date of our civilization.
To cooperate to the extent that we can Internet together and trade together for our mutual benefit.
Keeping in mind we do not all speak English, the Internet you see before your eyes will probably not look any different to you. You may get another option to ship and pay and if you select the global service, then the global service will try to give a very high standard of service and ease of use.





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