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Why does everything involving muslims have to be an "islamic" thing.

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posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 03:01 PM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


I really don’t know two writers are considered the truth, as far as I can tell.
I would stick to those two however, I get a different story every time. Who is correct? One of the writers two of the writers none of the writers?
How can you study a book if the rules of truth change with parts included or excluded to suit one’s own preference?




posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 03:03 PM
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Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by redneck13
 



You got some fine material for the Christian bashing thread.
This thread is called
_____________________________________________________
Why does everything involving muslims have to be an "islamic" thing
_____________________________________________________



I started this thread...and I was NOT talking about the religious aspect of Islam at all.... rather I was asking about the general perception of muslims.

Instead, you guys came in here posting things bashing Islam as a "creation of the vatican". (Look back a few pages)

Looks like some people were trying to turn this thread into another muslim bashing thread.... as happens each time a thread appears on ATS with the words "muslim" or "islam" in it.



Go back and look that was not I
I am in collaboration with no one else on this thread
Again avoiding the real issues

I am starting to get a perception of Muslims from this thread
edit on 3-7-2012 by redneck13 because: .



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 10:36 PM
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Simpleton, a troll like you need re-schooling.

stop making things up

You must be totally stupid and idiot.You posted a link that is hadith NOT qur'an , two different thing.Stop confusing the readers.You're argument is quite pathetic girl

Stop manupilating text books that you have no idea, taking things out of context to suit UR argument is again Pathetic

Your hypocrisy is overwhelming


Here, I have presented legitimate questions when it come to understanding the quran, but these are the childish personal attacks I received for participating in a thread about Muslims and Islam. I am still trying to understand why Muslims are the way they are, to get to the cause I need to understand a book that makes someone stand on their head five times a day. As typical you can never get a straight answer from a Muslim when it comes to their religion. I now understand it is because they don’t understand it themselves. I have a better understanding of Islam than most Muslims.

I have brought to the forum book and verse from Islamic sources as a legitimate base for a discussion, yet, I am stoned with insults.

Once I am told the hadiths are bull $hit and then I am told they are true.

Now, the guy with the beanie in this video says you don’t need them for light reading however, they are necessary to understand the quran. In fact, I believe he is trying to say in his accent, that they are the commentary for the quran and are necessary. I could only understand it half way through when he got excited and started talking in Chinese

The most ridicules thing is the fact that the hadiths are considered to be graded in the degree of truth. WOW, they are either true or false. Most tests don’t have a check box for half-true or half false.

It looks as though I will understand the quran with the hadiths as truth, why would Allah let them exist as lies about his messenger.


Who’s hypocrisy is overwhelming



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 10:50 PM
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reply to post by redneck13
 





Once I am told the hadiths are bull $hit and then I am told they are true


They follow the Hadiths, more so than the actual Quran. Case in point, they follow Muhammad in the hadiths when Farooq the Great called Muhammad a liar and a false prophet after both he and Abu Bakr died from being poisoned When he became second Caliph. Even the Quran calls Muhammad a liar but they still follow those hadiths about him. Watch those actions.



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 11:03 PM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


Thats is why you can never get a straight answer

Hadith good for Mohammed = true hadith strong
Hadith bad for Mohammed = false hadith week

I am trying to pinpoint the discussion of exactly what we are talking about here when dealing with Islamic scriptures, but I just get stoned.

/
/

edit on 3-7-2012 by redneck13 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 11:21 PM
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Originally posted by Youtuber
reply to post by iIuminaIi
 


Jesus is not God


He didn't claim to be God, he claimed to be Hayah/YHWH. For someone who seems to not claim to be the Almighty he damn sure wanted people to understand that he indeed is, as Isaiah here is saying. "And my Servant whom i have chosen, so that you may know and believe me, and understand that I AM HE". YHWH apparently wanted us to believe that he indeed is Yeshua, or this entire chapter would not exist.

Isaiah 43:10-13

10 “You are my witnesses, ” declares the Lord,
“and my servant whom I have chosen,
so that you may know and believe me
and understand that I am he.

Before me no god was formed,
nor will there be one after me.
11 I, even I, am the Lord,
and apart from me there is no savior.

12 I have revealed and saved and proclaimed—
I, and not some foreign god among you.
You are my witnesses, ” declares the Lord, “that I am God.
13 Yes, and from ancient days I am he.
No one can deliver out of my hand.
When I act, who can reverse it?”

John 8:56-59

56 Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.”

57 “You are not yet fifty years old,” they said to him, “and you have seen Abraham!”

58 “Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!” 59 At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.

When Yeshua said "Before Abraham was, I AM" he claimed the name Hayah. Hayah is the first name YHWH gave to Moses. "I AM" translates as Hayah, and the jews picked up stones to kill him because they knew what he was saying, hence why they tried to kill him.

He claimed to be Hayah again on trial by the Sanhedrin and thats what got him crucified for blasphemy.

Jeremiah 23:5-6

5“The days are coming,” declares the Lord,
“when I will raise up for David a righteous Branch,
a King who will reign wisely
and do what is just and right in the land.
6 In his days Judah will be saved
and Israel will live in safety.
This is the name by which he will be called:
The Lord Our Righteous Savior.


The underlined portion translates as YHWH Tsidekenu, so the Messiah is called...YHWH Tsidkenu.

John 5:37-47

37 And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form, 38 nor does his word dwell in you, for you do not believe the one he sent. 39 You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, 40 yet you refuse to come to me to have life.

41 “I do not accept glory from human beings, 42 but I know you. I know that you do not have the love of God in your hearts. 43 I have come in my Father’s name, and you do not accept me; but if someone else comes in his own name, you will accept him. 44 How can you believe since you accept glory from one another but do not seek the glory that comes from the only God?
45 “But do not think I will accuse you before the Father. Your accuser is Moses, on whom your hopes are set. 46 If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me. 47 But since you do not believe what he wrote, how are you going to believe what I say?”

Moses wrote the Torah, the first 5 books of the bible. These were the only scriptures in existence, the Torah/Tenach, the NT hadn;t been written yet. So if Abraham and none of the decendants of Jacob had ever seen the Father at anytime, who did Jacob wrestle with? Who made Adam with his hands and walked with him in the cool of the day and talked to him? Who talked to Abraham the day Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed? Who was with Moses on Mt. Sinai when the Law was written? Who showed Moses his back in the cleft?

Start learning to ask the right questions and you might find the right answers, or remain in ignorance. Do you ever ask yourself questions when you read scripture? Who is talking? What are they saying? Who are they talking to? Why are they doing what they do? Who is being punished? Why? Start asking the Who,What,When,Where and Why and the answers will come.
edit on 3-7-2012 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)

edit on 4-7-2012 by Gemwolf because: Fixed tags



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 11:30 PM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


It really aggravates me when i want to underline or bold to emphasize something and it does the whole damned post.



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 11:36 PM
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Originally posted by redneck13
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


Thats is why you can never get a straight answer

Hadith good for Mohammed = true hadith strong
Hadith bad for Mohammed = false hadith week

I am trying to pinpoint the discussion of exactly what we are talking about here when dealing with Islamic scriptures, but I just get stoned.

/
/

edit on 3-7-2012 by redneck13 because: (no reason given)


You're not going to ever get a straight answer bro, they don't even know what they believe and that's why you get a mixed bag of nuts for answers. Most of them are illiterate and only know what their Imams tell them...kinda like what Rome was doing in the Dark Ages and the R.C.C. and monarchs forbid learning to read and write.



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 11:45 PM
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You can show them in their own quran that Jesus said he is the God of the Muslims, but they will still tell its a lie,
Then you say “then the quran is false?
Then they say “the quran is the most holy book in the world”
Then you say “So Jesus is your God.”
Then they say “No you lie”
Then you say “then quran is false?”
Then they say “the quran is the most holy book in the world”
Etc. etc. etc.





posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 11:53 PM
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Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by Youtuber
reply to post by iIuminaIi
 


Jesus is not God


He didn't claim to be God.


Thank You, Indeed , he is not GOD.

edit on 4-7-2012 by iIuminaIi because: (no reason given)

edit on 4-7-2012 by Gemwolf because: Fixed tags



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 11:57 PM
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reply to post by redneck13
 



Then you say “then the quran is false?
Then they say “the quran is the most holy book in the world”
Then you say “So Jesus is your God.”
Then they say “No you lie”
Then you say “then quran is false?”
Then they say “the quran is the most holy book in the world”
Etc. etc. etc.


Theyre fragile minded and afraid of change. Apostacy in Islam is rewarded by death. I think theyre more afraid of their Imams than they are "Allah". They revere Muhammad even over Allah, does that make any sense to you? They say the bible is corrupted but if you asked them where they cannot tell you, because therye parroting what someone else told them without reading it for themselves. That and as i said above many of them are illiterate. Want to hear something ironic? Theyre every bit as stubborn as orthodox/ultra-orthodox jews and Haredim. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.



posted on Jul, 4 2012 @ 12:26 AM
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post removed for serious violation of ATS Terms & Conditions



posted on Jul, 4 2012 @ 01:08 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


I have to ask: Are you a Muslim?

If yes, then please answer this honestly:

Two people are campaigning to be president of the U.S.

A. One politician gives the same old tired speech of 'Time for change', 'No new taxes', all the bull we Americans are used to.

B. The other candidate is a Muslim cleric claiming he will force women to wear hajibs, make it okay for parents to beat their kids as a form of punishment, and allow the killing of infidels.

If you lived in the U.S., which one would you vote for? All Muslims feel free to answer.



edit on 7/4/2012 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 4 2012 @ 01:55 AM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 

Your question is framed in such a way as to suggest that you think that these things that the Muslim cleric is advocating are a part of Islam, when they are not.
Also, parents (but no other adults) are already allowed to beat their kids as a form of punishment in all of the US (as well as being widely supported by Americans).



posted on Jul, 4 2012 @ 07:48 AM
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Originally posted by babloyi
reply to post by jiggerj
 

Your question is framed in such a way as to suggest that you think that these things that the Muslim cleric is advocating are a part of Islam, when they are not.


No, I'm suggesting that Muslims will vote for a lunatic cleric over any non-Muslim, no matter how crazy that cleric might be.


Also, parents (but no other adults) are already allowed to beat their kids as a form of punishment in all of the US (as well as being widely supported by Americans).


Not true. It's against the law here in the U.S.



posted on Jul, 4 2012 @ 09:09 AM
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Now you begin to see the forthcoming issues
Muslims mutilate a Missouri man with a butcher knife....guess why?



posted on Jul, 4 2012 @ 09:19 AM
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Originally posted by iIuminaIi

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by Youtuber
reply to post by iIuminaIi
 


Jesus is not God


He didn't claim to be God.


Thank You, Indeed , he is not GOD.

edit on 4-7-2012 by iIuminaIi because: (no reason given)

edit on 4-7-2012 by Gemwolf because: Fixed tags


God/Gad Semitic deity...Fortune:


Gad was the name of the pan-Semitic god of fortune, and is attested in ancient records of Aram and Arabia. Gad is also mentioned by the Book of Isaiah (Isaiah 65:11 - some translations simply call him (the god of) Fortune), as having been worshipped by a number of Hebrews during the babylonian captivity. Gad apparently differed from the god of destiny, who was known as Meni. The root verb in Gad means cut or divide, and from this comes the idea of fate being meted out.

It is possible that the son of Jacob named Gad is named after Gad, although the text presents a different reason, the (ketub) quotation of Zilpa (Gad's mother) giving the reason of Gad's name could be understood that way.

How widespread the cult of Gad, the deity, was in Canaanite times may be inferred from the names Baalgad, a city at the foot of Mount Hermon, and Migdal-gad, in the territory of Judah. Compare also the proper names Gaddi and Gaddiel in the tribes of Manasseh and Zebulun (Numbers 13:10, 11). At the same time it must not be supposed that Gad was always regarded as an independent deity. The name was doubtless originally an appellative, meaning the power that allots. Hence any of the greater gods supposed to favour men might be thought of as the giver of good fortune and be worshiped under that title; it is possible that Jupiter, the planet, may have been the Gad thus honoured - among the Arabs the planet Jupiter was called the greater Fortune (Venus was styled the lesser Fortune).

Gad is the patron of a locality, a mountain (Hul. 40a), of an idol (Gen. R. lxiv), a house, or the world (Gen. R. lxxi.). Hence "luck" may also be bad (Eccl. R. vii. 26). A couch or bed for this god of fortune is referred to in Ned. 56a.


en.wikipedia.org...(deity)


The semitic deity of Destiny is Inanna a.k.a. Nisaba, as both Fortune and Destiny are mentioned in Isaiah 65 This is why YHWH/Hayah wanted to be referred as his name, not some title, because titles easily confuse people and he wants to be known for who he is. Like "Allah" which derives from Al-Ilah "the god" but in modern times muslim claim means "God" so their Elohim is not the same as christians or jews. Judaism split 2000 years ago when messianic jews believed Yeshua is the physical manifestation of YHWH in this world (and the prophets said he would come in person).
edit on 4-7-2012 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 4 2012 @ 12:15 PM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 


Originally posted by jiggerj
No, I'm suggesting that Muslims will vote for a lunatic cleric over any non-Muslim, no matter how crazy that cleric might be.

Odd then that wherever muslims are democratically able, the crazy lunatic cleric candidates are never elected- Egypt (no, the Muslim Brotherhood is very moderate), Tunisia, Malawi, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Indonesia, Iraq, etc. etc. etc.


Originally posted by jiggerj
Not true. It's against the law here in the U.S.

Yes true.

Current legality of corporal punishment
Corporal punishment is lawful in the home in all states. State laws confirm the right of parents to inflict physical punishment on their children and legal provisions against violence and abuse are not interpreted as prohibiting all corporal punishment in childrearing. In Minnesota, examination of several laws led some legal experts to conclude that corporal punishment is not permitted in that state, but according to the legislation a parent, legal guardian or caretaker may use reasonable force to restrain or correct a child (Sec. 609.379. [Cr.]) and the Minnesota Court of Appeal has overturned convictions for physical abuse involving corporal punishment.

edit on 4-7-2012 by babloyi because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 4 2012 @ 03:24 PM
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reply to post by babloyi
 


"reasonable force to restrain" does not mean spanking, slapping, or using a belt.


Odd then that wherever muslims are democratically able, the crazy lunatic cleric candidates are never elected- Egypt (no, the Muslim Brotherhood is very moderate), Tunisia, Malawi, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Indonesia, Iraq, etc. etc. etc.


What part of this proves me wrong? Are you holding me to the word cleric? Fine, I meant Muslims will vote for Muslims every time.


edit on 7/4/2012 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 4 2012 @ 03:38 PM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 


Originally posted by jiggerj
"reasonable force to restrain" does not mean spanking, slapping, or using a belt.

Actually it does. Spanking, slapping, belting, paddling, smacking and even whipping
is legal (with the precedent set by court cases where the defendant wasn't convicted).



Originally posted by jiggerj
What part of this proves me wrong? Are you holding me to the word cleric? Fine, I meant Muslims will vote for Muslims every time.

Between a crazy muslim candidate and a "more of the same" Christian one? The situation has never arisen, so it is pointless to speculate. Besides, a christian would always vote for a Christian. I suppose you don't consider it significant that one of the major points of contention that the lunatic-fringe of the right has with Obama is that he is a muslim? People are denying left, right and centre that he is a muslim, but they aren't getting to the heart of the issue: So what if he was?
The USA is in far greater danger of getting an crazy authoritarian Fundamentalist Christian President than any miniscule possibility of any "creeping shariah" or muslim president. Thank God (
) that Santorum dropped out- a Roman Catholic Christian with TREMENDOUS support, who has gone on record saying how he HATES Separation of Church and State.

edit on 4-7-2012 by babloyi because: (no reason given)




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