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Why does everything involving muslims have to be an "islamic" thing.

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posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 09:09 AM
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reply to post by iIuminaIi
 


Then the Quran is not true. Mohammed was not fed poisoned lamb by a Jewish woman, on the same day he killed her family and then raped her. The poison did not kill one of Mohammed’s companions and made Mohammed deathly ill and later died of the poisoning. The quran must not be the perfect book Muslims claim it to be




posted on Jul, 2 2012 @ 09:17 AM
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Originally posted by redneck13
reply to post by iIuminaIi
 


Then the Quran is not true. Mohammed was not fed poisoned lamb by a Jewish woman, on the same day he killed her family and then raped her. The poison did not kill one of Mohammed’s companions and made Mohammed deathly ill and later died of the poisoning. The quran must not be the perfect book Muslims claim it to be


Dude , stop making things up! You should try in hollywood !! Great actings .



Stop trolling!





Ooop!





edit on 2-7-2012 by iIuminaIi because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 01:40 AM
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reply to post by iIuminaIi
 

Hey there Mr. iIuminaIi fella
You had to go and accuse me of fibbin. If this stuff aint true in the quran, what are you supposed to do with it? Do you white it out or glue a piece over it or, rip the whole page out if it aint true on both sides? I was hoping you could help me with my understanding of what’s going on here. You are telling me the quran is true AND this story aint true, now you got me all confused

www.sacred-texts.com...


Hadith 4:394
Narrated Abu Huraira:
When Khaibar was conquered, a roasted poisoned sheep was presented to the Prophets as a gift (by the Jews). The Prophet ordered, "Let all the Jews who have been here, be assembled before me." The Jews were collected and the Prophet said (to them), "I am going to ask you a question. Will you tell the truth?'' They said, "Yes.' The Prophet asked, "Who is your father?" They replied, "So-and-so." He said, "You have told a ie; your father is so-and-so." They said, "You are right." He siad, "Will you now tell me the truth, if I ask you about something?" They replied, "Yes, O AbuAl-Qasim; and if we should tell a lie, you can realize our lie as you have done regarding our father." On that he asked, "Who are the people of the (Hell) Fire?" They said, "We shall remain in the (Hell) Fire for a short period, and after that you will replace us." The Prophet said, "You may be cursed and humiliated in it! By Allah, we shall never replace you in it.'' Then he asked, "Will you now tell me the truth if I ask you a question?" They said, "Yes, O Ab Li-AI-Qasim." He asked, "Have you poisoned this sheep?" They said, "Yes." He asked, "What made you do so?" They said, "We wanted to know if you were a liar in which case we would get rid of you, and if you are a prophet then the poison would not harm you."

From Ibn Sa'd pages 251, 252:
....When the apostle of Allah conquered Khaibar and he had peace of mind, Zaynab Bint al-Harith the brother of Marhab, who was the spouse of Sallam Ibn Mishkam, inquired, "Which part of the goat is liked by Muhammad?" They said, "The foreleg." Then she slaughtered one from her goats and roasted it (the meat). Then she wanted a poison which could not fail. .... The apostle of Allah took the foreleg, a piece of which he put into his mouth. Bishr took another bone and put it into his mouth. When the apostle of Allah ate one morsel of it Bishr ate his and other people also ate from it. Then the apostle of Allah said, "Hold back your hands! because this foreleg; ...informed me that it is poisoned. Thereupon Bishr said, "By Him who has made you great! I discovered it from the morsel I took. Nothing prevented me from emitting it out, but the idea that I did not like to make your food unrelishing. When you had eaten what was in your mouth I did not like to save my life after yours, and I also thought you would not have eaten it if there was something wrong.
Bishr did not rise form his seat but his color changed to that of "taylsan" (a green cloth)..........The apostle of Allah sent for Zaynab and said to her, "What induced you to do what you have done?" She replied, "You have done to my people what you have done. You have killed my father, my uncle and my husband, so I said to myself, "If you are a prophet, the foreleg will inform you; and others have said, "If you are a king we will get rid of you.""......
The apostle of Allah lived after this three years till in consequence of his pain he passed away. During his illness he used to say, "I did not cease to find the effect of the (poisoned) morsel, I took at Khaibar and I suffered several times (from its effect) but now I feel the hour has come of the cutting of my jugular vein."

Bukhari's Hadith 5.713:]
Narrated 'Aisha:
The Prophet in his ailment in which he died, used to say, "O 'Aisha! I still feel the pain caused by the food I ate at Khaibar, and at this time, I feel as if my aorta is being cut from that poison."



edit on 3-7-2012 by redneck13 because: .



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 02:38 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


G'day sc0rp

re "Asking if muslims are "expected to take up arms against the infidel if directed by their leaders" is like asking if christians are expected to turn the other cheek when slapped. (Hey, it says so in THEIR scriptures.) "

Let's leave out the subtle misdirection away from what I asked. Isn't Islam and hence it's followers a religion whereby its followers are compelled to kill those unbelievers who won't convert to islam? Or at the very least, make them pay exhorbinant fines so that they can keep their religions? And from there, if that is so, and if you are muslim, would YOU take up arms if directed to do so? If yes, please stay away from where I am and if no, then why bother following that religion at all? Why not just have a set of personal rules that allow you to be the person you feel you should be?



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 08:48 AM
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post removed because the user has no concept of manners

Click here for more information.



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 12:25 PM
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reply to post by iIuminaIi
 

So then, it is safe to say Hadiths are lies.
The hadiths should be deleted, they mean nothing, psychobabble
You need to help me out here.
You seem to be the one with the answers

a. To fish for by trailing a baited line from behind a slowly moving boat.
b. To fish in by trailing a baited line: troll the lake for bass.
c. To trail (a baited line) in fishing.

edit on 3-7-2012 by redneck13 because: .



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 01:00 PM
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reply to post by steve1709
 




G'day sc0rp

re "Asking if muslims are "expected to take up arms against the infidel if directed by their leaders" is like asking if christians are expected to turn the other cheek when slapped. (Hey, it says so in THEIR scriptures.) "

Isn't Islam and hence it's followers a religion whereby its followers are compelled to kill those unbelievers who won't convert to islam? Or at the very least, make them pay exhorbinant fines so that they can keep their religions?


"Isn't Islam and hence it's followers a religion whereby its followers are compelled to kill those unbelievers who won't convert to islam?"

You are merely rephrasing your earlier statement... about muslims taking up arms against the infidel if directed by their leaders.

Speaking from my own experience...

- Muslims in India (where I live) blend in with the non-muslims very well. There is a significant muslim population in my part of town.....and they don't go around killing non-muslims (infidels) who don't convert to Islam.

- Muslims in Malaysia (where I stayed for a while) live alongside a large population of Chinese and Indians. It sure didn't look like they were waging war on those buddhist/hindu unbelievers in their land.


Like I said earlier.... muslims are not hive minded.



And from there, if that is so, and if you are muslim, would YOU take up arms if directed to do so?


Would I take up arms if directed to do so? It depends... if my life depends on it... or if I had to deal with a foriegn invasion. Does that sound fair to you?




If yes, please stay away from where I am

I have never held a real gun in ALL my life. Gun culture is not prevalent where I live.
Also, I'd like to say... if you own guns, please stay away from me.... as gun owners(not living in a conflict zone) really creep me out.


and if no, then why bother following that religion at all? Why not just have a set of personal rules that allow you to be the person you feel you should be?


a) I, as someone born into a non-muslim family have the choice of either joining those who demonize Islam and muslims.... OR remain silent and look on.

b) However.... as someone who is familiar with the Koran, have the choice of speaking my mind on the matter.

I choose b)





edit on 3-7-2012 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 01:36 PM
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Originally posted by redneck13
reply to post by iIuminaIi
 

So then, it is safe to say Hadiths are lies.
The hadiths should be deleted, they mean nothing, psychobabble
You need to help me out here.
You seem to be the one with the answers

a. To fish for by trailing a baited line from behind a slowly moving boat.
b. To fish in by trailing a baited line: troll the lake for bass.
c. To trail (a baited line) in fishing.

edit on 3-7-2012 by redneck13 because: .


Stop manupilating text books that you have no idea, taking things out of context to suit UR argument is again Pathetic....

Is your God jesus?

answer me

edit on 3-7-2012 by iIuminaIi because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 01:40 PM
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Originally posted by redneck13
reply to post by iIuminaIi
 

You must be totally stupid and idiot.You posted a link that is hadith NOT qur'an , two different thing.Stop confusing the readers.You're argument is quite pathetic girl

Dude , stop making things up! You should try in hollywood !! Great actings




So then, it is safe to say Hadiths are lies.
The hadiths should be deleted, they mean nothing, psychobabble
You need to help me out here.
You seem to be the one with the answers


So then, according to you, it is safe to say Hadiths are lies
So then, according to you, it is safe to say Hadiths are lies
So then, according to you, it is safe to say Hadiths are lies
Amen
edit on 3-7-2012 by redneck13 because: .



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 01:42 PM
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reply to post by iIuminaIi
 


Jesus is not God



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 01:49 PM
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reply to post by redneck13
 



Not lies...........Here's my point :

What is Hadith ?

Q/A Method for noobs like YOU


Q.) I have learnt that some hadith are weak and some are more reliable. Does this mean that some hadith are not to be followed/complied with? If you follow a hadith that is "weak" will you obtain the rewards as stated in the Hadith? Why is it that some hadith are weak and some strong? How does a layperson distinguish between them? If the distinction is made merely on chain of narrators, are we entitled to judge the narrators? What are the authentic books of hadith?

A.) A Hadith can be categorized with regards to its authenticity into 5 types, 1) Sahih (authentic), 2) Hasan (sound), 3) Dha'eef (weak), 4) Dha'eef Jiddan (very weak), and 5) Mawdhoo (fabricated).

The first 2 types can be used as proofs for the different laws in Shari'ah. The third can be used (with a few conditions attached) to establish virtues for any specific deed or person. (This is accepted by the vast majority of the Muhadditheen).

There are three conditions for the permissibility of practicing upon a weak Hadith; a) It must not be very weak, b) It must be regarding something that has already been established to be a part of Deen, c) One should not have total conviction in its authenticity. The Ulama have stated that Istihbaab (preference) can be established from a weak Hadith. (al-Ajwibatul Fadhilah), and if one practices upon it, it is hoped that he will receive the reward mentioned therein.

No. 5 (fabrications) cannot be used for anything besides for the purpose of explaining to somebody it's classification. It cannot be quoted in any lecture, book, etc. with the intention of inspiring people through its contents. Rasulullah Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam said, 'He who lies (about a speech) of mine should prepare his abode in the fire.' (Bukhari)

Hence, the Ulama have deduced that it is haram (forbidden) for one to quote any fabricated Hadith without explicitly mentioning its fabrication. As for number 4 (very weak, which is also referred to by the words, 'very unreliable'), because of it being so weak, the Ulama have joined it to Mawdhoo (fabricated) Ahaadith. So, they share the same law as mentioned above. (For further reference, see Sharh Nukhbatul Firk of Hafiz ibn Hajar; Tadreeburraawiy of Hafiz Suyyooti and; Al-Ajwibatul Fadhilah of Maulana Abdul Hai Lucknawi)

The reason for some Ahadith being weak, some strong and some being classified as fabrications is due to the variation in the credibility of the narrators in each chain. The task of checking and verifying the status of each narrator of every Hadith one quotes is quite difficult. Only those that are equipped with the intricacies of the science of 'Jarh wal Ta'deel' are eligible to do so. Others that know the Arabic language and have a brief understanding of Usool-ul-Hadith (principles of Hadith) are able to read and check how the Ulama of classical times have graded any particular Hadith, thereby relying on their classification of the status of a Hadith.

This is practically impossible for anyone who does not posses any of the above knowledge of science of 'Jarh wal Ta'deel' or the Arabic language together with a brief understanding of Usool-ul-Hadith (sciences of Hadith). Hence, the layman as well as others, should first be cautious in whatever they attribute to Rasulullah Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam as was the practice of many of the Sahaba, Radi-Allahu anhum, namely, Abdullah ibn Mas'ood, Radi-Allahu anhu, Anas ibn Maalik, Radi-Allahu anhu, and others. The Sahaba, Radi-Allahu anhum, used to turn pale when narrating Ahadith from Rasulullah Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam for the fear of erring and effectively attributing something to Rasulullah Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam which he did not mention. But, alas! Nowadays, we quote Hadith upon Hadith without this thought ever crossing our minds that possibly we have attributed one word to Rasulullah Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam which he did not say!

As for the authentic books of ahadith, the list will never stop. However, some of these authentic books may contain ahadith whose reliability may vary from authentic to weak and so on. Hence, we will enlist those books regarding which the Ulama have stated that all or majority of their Ahadith are reliable and authentic and not undermined the other numerous authentic books of Ahadith.

Those books whose Ahaadith are all authentic: Sahih Bukhari, Adabul Mufrad (by Imaam Bukhari), Sahih Muslim, Muwatta Imaam Maalik, Sahih ibn Khuzaymah, Sahih ibn Hibbaan, al-Muntaqa by Imaam Jaaruwd, al-Mukhtaarah by Imaam Dhiyaa-ud-Deen Maqdisiy, Riyaadhul-saaliheen by Imaam Nawawiy, Fourty Ahaadith by Imaam Nawawiy, Hisn Haseen by Imaam Jazary, Part1 of Mishkaat al-Masaabeeh. Allah Ta'ala Knows Best

www.albalagh.net...
edit on 3-7-2012 by iIuminaIi because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 01:58 PM
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reply to post by Youtuber
 


Ofcourse , Jesus is not God.



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 02:11 PM
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reply to post by iIuminaIi
 


So what category is the death of Mohamed fall into,5) Mawdhoo (fabricated).
fabricated? = Lie

view the six major hadith collections as their most important. They are, in order of authenticity:[1]
1.Sahih Bukhari, collected by Imam Bukhari (d. 870), includes 7275 ahadith
2.Sahih Muslim, collected by Muslim b. al-Hajjaj (d. 875), includes 9200 ahadith
3.Sunan al-Sughra, collected by al-Nasa'i (d. 915)
4.Sunan Abu Dawood, collected by Abu Dawood (d. 888)
5.Jami al-Tirmidhi, collected by al-Tirmidhi (d. 892)
6.Sunan ibn Majah, collected by Ibn Majah (d. 887)

The first two, commonly referred to as the Two Sahihs as an indication of their authenticity, contain approximately seven thousand ahadith altogether if repetitions are not counted, according to Ibn Hajar.[2]

Then you consider .Sahih Bukhari to have the strongest of the hadiths. It must be that his recollection of the death of Mohammed is true or all hadiths are lies.
I don’t want to twist up your text books, I am just going by what you tell me
here is Sahih Bukhari's hadiths on the death of Mohammed

_______________________________________________________________________________________
Narrated Anas bin Malik: A Jewess brought a poisoned (cooked) sheep for the Prophet who ate from it. She was brought to the Prophet and he was asked, "Shall we kill her?" He said, "No." I continued to see the effect of the poison on the palate of the mouth of Allah's Apostle .Sahih Bukhari 3:47:786

Narrated 'Aisha: The Prophet in his ailment in which he died, used to say, "O 'Aisha! I still feel the pain caused by the food I ate at Khaibar, and at this time, I feel as if my aorta is being cut from that poison."Sahih Bukhari 5:59:713

Narrated 'Aisha: that during his fatal ailment, Allah's Apostle, used to ask his wives, "Where shall I stay tomorrow? Where shall I stay tomorrow?" He was looking forward to Aisha's turn. So all his wives allowed him to stay where he wished....Sahih Bukhari 7:62:144

....He came out with the help of two men and his legs were dragging on the ground. He was between Al-Abbas and another man [Ali Ibn Abi Talib]."Sahih Bukhari 1:11:634

Then he [Muhammad] ordered them to do three things. He said, "Turn the pagans out of the 'Arabian Peninsula; respect and give gifts to the foreign delegations as you have seen me dealing with them." (Said bin Jubair, the sub-narrator said that Ibn Abbas kept quiet as rewards the third order, or he said, "I forgot it.")Sahih Bukhari 5:59:716

Narrated 'Aisha and Ibn 'Abbas: On his death-bed Allah's Apostle put a sheet over his-face and when he felt hot, he would remove it from his face. When in that state (of putting and removing the sheet) he said, "May Allah's Curse be on the Jews and the Christians for they build places of worship at the graves of their prophets." (By that) he intended to warn (the Muslim) from what they (i.e. Jews and Christians) had done.Sahih Bukhari 4:56:660

Narrated Aisha:....In front of him there was a jug or a tin, (The sub-narrator, 'Umar is in doubt as to which was right) containing water. He started dipping his hand in the water and rubbing his face with it, he said, "None has the right to be worshipped except Allah. Death has its agonies." He then lifted his hands (towards the sky) and started saying, "With the highest companion," till he expired and his hand dropped down.Sahih Bukhari 5:59:730

edit on 3-7-2012 by redneck13 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 02:20 PM
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reply to post by redneck13
 





Sahih Bukhari to have the strongest of the hadiths


Yes , sahih bukhari is the strongest, but hadith is not the word of god.



Is Qur'an Incomplete Without Hadith ?


edit on 3-7-2012 by iIuminaIi because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 02:38 PM
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reply to post by iIuminaIi
 

So I think I understand, you like that guy in video use the hadiths only when you need details to prove your bias point, but when someone else uses hadiths to make a point you don’t agree with even the strongest hadith and proclaim it is a lie. What the hell? Who is to judge when the hadiths are to be used? Only when a Muslim needs to try to prove his opinionated point?
You like this guy in the video offer no basis for your opinion other than I say so
your argument is #5 Mawdhoo,Mawdhoo,and Mawdhoo
AMEN

edit on 3-7-2012 by redneck13 because: ,



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 02:46 PM
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Originally posted by redneck13
reply to post by iIuminaIi
 

So I think I understand, you like that guy in video use the hadiths only when you need details to prove your bias point, but when someone else uses hadiths to make a point you don’t agree with even the strongest hadith is a lie. What the hell? Who is to judge when the hadiths are to be used? Only when a Muslim needs to try to prove his opinionated point?
You like this guy in the video offer no basis for your opinion other than I say so



You're not here to learn , you're here to crusade so no point of wasting my time


Since you like pressing buttons , tell me why does the word "Bastard" occurs 3 times in the bible?


1. “The BASTARD shall not enter the congregation of the Lord; even to his tenth generation"
DEUTERONOMY 23:2

2."BASTARD shall dwell in Ashdod"
ZECHARIAH 9:6

3.“But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then ye are BASTARDS and not sons."
HERREWS 12:8


Not very nice from lips of god isn't it ?


edit on 3-7-2012 by iIuminaIi because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 02:52 PM
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reply to post by redneck13
 




So I think I understand, you like that guy in video use the hadiths only when you need details to prove your bias point, but when someone else uses hadiths to make a point you don’t agree with even the strongest hadith and proclaim it is a lie. What the hell? Who is to judge when the hadiths are to be used?


Don't mean to interrupt.... but when I use the hadith(and the Koran) to make any kind of point... Christians just turn around and say "Islam is a false religion".

Yet, they would be quoting from the hadith and saying "look Islam teaches this and that... here is the proof from their own texts".

Looks like christians are good at judging when the hadiths are to be used.



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 02:54 PM
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reply to post by iIuminaIi
 


You got some fine material for the Christian bashing thread.
This thread is called
_____________________________________________________
Why does everything involving muslims have to be an "islamic" thing
_____________________________________________________

Which makes no sense but, we are here to find out why.
Everyone notices you have no answers for what you believe because of the brain washing five times a day. Your mind has become clouded and you lack the assets that make the rest of us free thinking individuals.

What is your next post going to be, something off topic like how Christian are bad?



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 02:57 PM
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reply to post by redneck13
 


Your hypocrisy is overwhelming



posted on Jul, 3 2012 @ 03:00 PM
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reply to post by redneck13
 



You got some fine material for the Christian bashing thread.
This thread is called
_____________________________________________________
Why does everything involving muslims have to be an "islamic" thing
_____________________________________________________



I started this thread...and I was NOT talking about the religious aspect of Islam at all.... rather I was asking about the general perception of muslims.

Instead, you guys came in here posting things bashing Islam as a "creation of the vatican". (Look back a few pages)

Looks like some people were trying to turn this thread into another muslim bashing thread.... as happens each time a thread appears on ATS with the words "muslim" or "islam" in it.



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