Why does everything involving muslims have to be an "islamic" thing.

Something that I've noticed on internet discussions pertaining to muslims....is that people almost always assume anything to do with muslims is, by default, religiously motivated. I've also noticed that many people associate Islam with terrorism, violence, female genital mutilation, in-fighting and so on. And I know for a fact that these same people would suddenly display a rather heightened sense of judgement when faced with a generalizing statement that portrays their own kind as inherently violent or war prone. They would distance themselves from child abusers or frauds or warmongers of their own kind.... and yet they have no qualms lumping in the planets billion plus muslim population with the minority who act violently.

For example, on a recent article about the Taliban killing Pakistani soldiers, people commenting on the article seemed incapable of conceiving that muslims are able to act outside of a religious framework. Most of the comments were on the lines of "muslims love killing muslims" or a sarcastic "Islam the religion of peace". The fact is that it was a result of a political conflict involving the taliban and Pakistani soldiers. To assume the participants in a military conflict acted on religious grounds is based on an assumption that muslims do everything because they are following religious instructions. The fact that there is an ongoing conflict in that region and that people are known to take up arms to resolve conflict is always ignored.

I've also seen many people post news articles about random muslim violence to present their case that Islam is violent. This approach is akin to posting FBI statistics about black crimes and making a generalized conclusion that "blacks are criminal prone"...
OR posting child abuse statistics and saying "christians are child abusers"...
OR posting WW2 statistics and saying "white christians love killing each other"

If the above sounds absurd, then why should violence in the Islamic world establish that "muslims are violent"? Yet, even news about domestic violence or criminal activity involving muslims, I've seen many people say that those "muslims" did bad things because of their religon.... or that Islam condones such activity. Absolute BS.

Muslims are like any other people. Some are religious, some take their religion to fanatical extremes.... and some just dont act religiously. Not every muslim does things because his religious texts say so. There are 1.5 billion muslims on this planet.... they are not hive-minded or a monolithic group that performs every single action based off their religious texts.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n

If the above sounds absurd, then why should violence in the Islamic world establish that "muslims are violent"? Yet, even news about domestic violence or criminal activity involving muslims, I've seen many people say that those "muslims" did bad things because of their religon.... or that Islam condones such activity. Absolute BS.

Muhammad was a violent man.

He fought 8 battles and led 18 raids and planned another 38 military operations led by his subordinate commanders. HistoryNet

Muhammad spread Islam by the sword.

The Koran demands 91 times that Muslims imitate Mohammed in every way.

Statistical Islam

Koran 9:29

Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.

Koran

Lest anyone state that this verse is out of context, here is the whole Sura Here


Here is a map of Muhammad's military conquests



Muhammad died while planning a futher invasion of Palestine.

reply to post by ollncasino

Muhammad was a violent man.
He fought 8 battles and led 28 raids.

This kind of reasoning works both ways...


Americans are violent people.
*Insert statistics about wars involving America*

OR

Christians are violent people
*Insert articles about crusades, inquisitions, witchburnings, wars etc*

OR

Atheists are violent people
*Insert statistics about Communist regimes*

OR

Blacks are violent people
*Insert FBI statistics on black crimes*

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
This kind of reasoning works both ways...

Americans are violent people.
*Insert statistics about wars involving America*

Interesting logic.

Are you aware that Muhammad stated that jihad is second only to believing in Allah?

Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah's Apostle was asked, "What is the best deed?" He replied, "To believe in Allah and His Apostle (Muhammad). The questioner then asked, "What is the next (in goodness)? He replied, "To participate in Jihad (religious fighting) in Allah's Cause."

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 2, number 25

What make someone a muslim?

What makes someone American?

Islam is a religion... submission.

sorry but you don't get to change the facts..

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by ollncasino

 

Muhammad was a violent man.
He fought 8 battles and led 28 raids.

This kind of reasoning works both ways...


Americans are violent people.
*Insert statistics about wars involving America*

OR

Christians are violent people
*Insert articles about crusades, inquisitions, witchburnings, wars etc*

OR

Atheists are violent people
*Insert statistics about Communist regimes*

OR

Blacks are violent people
*Insert FBI statistics on black crimes*

edit on 30-6-2012 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)

Being black isn't a religion, and screw those made up stats by the feds.

Originally posted by mainidh
What make someone a muslim?

Islam is a religion... submission.

sorry but you don't get to change the facts..

Exactly.

Islam translates from Arabic not as 'peace' but as "peace, purity, submission and obedience"

In the religious sense, Islam means submission to the will of God and obedience to His law. Link

Muslims tell us that Islam means peace but leave out the submission and obedience to Allah part.


Now why on earth would they do that?

reply to post by ollncasino



Well, I was expanding on YOUR line of reasoning.

If you can conclude that someone is "violent" because of the number of wars and raids they carried out, then it would apply universally... to everybody.

reply to post by poloblack

Being black isn't a religion, and screw those made up stats by the feds.

I only brought up the FBI statistics on blacks to make a point... that anybody can cite statistics and figures to demonize an entire people...whether based on race, religion, sexual orientation or ethnicity.

To generalize on religion but NOT race is as absurd as generalizing on race but NOT religion.
You can't pick and choose what you generalize on.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


OH MY GOD, the Crusades were in DEFENCE of Christendom. The Muslims invaded the Holy lands and killed and converted everyone, so the Christians fought back.

reply to post by mainidh

What make someone a muslim?

Someone born to muslim parents is technically a "muslim". He could be completely irreligious.
Yet if he makes the news for a crime, all of Islam and muslim would be dragged into it.

"islam this, muslims that.".

reply to post by CrimsonKapital

OH MY GOD, the Crusades were in DEFENCE of Christendom. The Muslims invaded the Holy lands and killed and converted everyone, so the Christians fought back.

I had a long reply typed out to your post... but I deleted it. The OP was addressing an entirely different matter.

Divide and conquer in its element.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by poloblack

 

Being black isn't a religion, and screw those made up stats by the feds.

I only brought up the FBI statistics on blacks to make a point... that anybody can cite statistics and figures to demonize an entire people...whether based on race, religion, sexual orientation or ethnicity.

To generalize on religion but NOT race is as absurd as generalizing on race but NOT religion.
You can't pick and choose who you generalize on.

edit on 30-6-2012 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)

I'm not generalizing anything, as I'm not religous, but I'm stating that being black has nothing to do with the message you're trying to convey

reply to post by poloblack

I'm not generalizing anything, as I'm not religous, but I'm stating that being black has nothing to do with the message you're trying to convey

The message Im trying to convey is that generalizing an entire people (whether by race or religon) by citing the violence of a small group... is absurd.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


I was born to christian parents.

I'm not about to forget or absolve that the church has a history of child abuse. And hiding it. And even in some cases accepting it.

Maybe I should become a muslim, then all my sins are forgiven.. even if I cut someone's head off.?

Or jewish.

"Why does everything involving muslims have to be an "islamic" thing."

We're not here to talk about normal people when you ask the question in the topic -- we're here to ask why they are always in focus for the majority of the issues wrong with their religion.

I know a few muslims who act without regard to their religion, yet they still call themselves muslim. I DO get what you saying. But they are not the representatives. They are silent in their action. I'd be more than pissed off if someone else acted with hate and barbarity using my faith. I'd distance myself post haste. These people shrug it off, and wonder why the crap flies at them.

If it means so much to an innocent, they are rather silent in their reaction.. It begs the question, are they really sad about it, or just waiting for the right time to agree with it?

Your logic is a slanted one. It's not midget elf santa helpers blowing things up, cutting peoples heads off, stoning women who've been raped, crying foul when the rest of the world say "Hey whats going on here?"!

It's the majority. The bulk of it. And as seen in another thread recently closed, a populace full of like minded people will get nasty and quick. Screaming allahu akbar as they intimidate anyone who is of a different religion or opinion. I've seen this first hand, more than 20 years ago. Scared the crap out of me. But back then I thought religious people were mostly kind and accepting. Boy did I learn.

Culture of hate... religion of peace my shiny white ass..

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by CrimsonKapital

 

OH MY GOD, the Crusades were in DEFENCE of Christendom. The Muslims invaded the Holy lands and killed and converted everyone, so the Christians fought back.

I had a long reply typed out to your post... but I deleted it.

Photos or it doesn't exist!

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

Someone born to muslim parents is technically a "muslim". He could be completely irreligious.
Yet if he makes the news for a crime, all of Islam and muslim would be dragged into it.

"islam this, muslims that.".

OP, your thread title made me laugh...I thought, "what about Muslims is not about Islam?" So, it appears now that you are describing an ethnicity, and not a religious sect. If one is born to muslim parents, they are automatically "muslims"....which is more a nationality or heritage than a choice.

I am no expert on the Islamic faith, but if a person is born to muslims and is "irreligious", why are they still called "muslims"? Is it the same as being born in the USA makes one an American? Or is it because they are forbidden to renounce Islam else be exterminated? A child born to a rich family may grow up to be a total loser in prison. A child born into the ghetto might make something spectacular of himself.

Do Muslims allow their children to choose a religion on their own? I am free to renounce my American citizenship, and to choose how to address my spirituality. But I'm still a child of WASPs. It doesn't mean anything except that my skin is pale/freckled, my hair is red, my eyes are blue.

Obviously the West has been fed a decade of negative information regarding Islam and Muslims...so perhaps you could elaborate a bit on how "most" everyday Muslims actually live. I've tried to glean it from the media, from members here, from acquaintances in daily life....but I still can't shake the "barbaric" assumption. I'm sorry about that, too. I want to be less 'brainwashed'. Can you help us?

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


govenerment shills are everywhere just ignore
them

westerners butcher people every day, they love the sight of charred babies remains
thats TODAY! not thousands of years ago
what can i do as a westerner, annoy the crap out of the government ofc
mwahahahahaha, nwo scum.

Originally posted by CrimsonKapital

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by CrimsonKapital

 

OH MY GOD, the Crusades were in DEFENCE of Christendom. The Muslims invaded the Holy lands and killed and converted everyone, so the Christians fought back.

I had a long reply typed out to your post... but I deleted it.

Photos or it doesn't exist!

CrisomKapital, you just made my day with this!!! S for the giggles!