The point of no return. Australia's Carbon Tax coming this Weekend

Originally posted by aaron2209
reply to post by 13th Zodiac

 

It is based on the idea that over time business will see an expense that can be limited so will attempt to limit it.

What kind of business wouldn't try to cut costs?

Also we don't have referendums on every piece of legislation.

edit on 30-6-2012 by aaron2209 because: (no reason given)

That's only half of the equation my friend.

How does a business skirt the carbon tax, by producing out side of the country that enacts the carbon tax. That means get ready for off shoring your jobs.

So, they evade the tax entirely, raise their prices (because you think they have inflated costs) and charge you more for it.

Wow. Why would you embrace that world?

I'm telling you, you don't know economics, you don't know business strategy. You know how to balance your checkbook, not an economy.

You think that since you can balance a check book that you CAN balance an economy. The economy doesn't work like your checkbook, this is your fallacy.

Prices aren't just driven by demand. They are driven by perceptual cost and perceptual value as well. Lets see how good the land of Oz does after a year or two of these carbon taxes....

Originally posted by aaron2209
reply to post by mainidh

 

So are you telling me that a business paying $500M a year in carbon tax (a number out of thin air) wouldn't look at that figure and think "Hmmm how can we lower this by utilising less pollution producing methods"?

That will be the first thing they do.

No, they won't.

They will simply adjust the price of their services/goods to compensate for the tax by billing it on the user side.

reply to post by Laokin


Any companies that can offshore have/will already. The biggest polluters like mining and energy can't offshore.

On the flip side any companies utilising "green" technologies will expand.

Originally posted by Romekje

Originally posted by aaron2209
reply to post by mainidh

 

So are you telling me that a business paying $500M a year in carbon tax (a number out of thin air) wouldn't look at that figure and think "Hmmm how can we lower this by utilising less pollution producing methods"?

That will be the first thing they do.

No, they won't.

They will simply adjust the price of their services/goods to compensate for the tax by billing it on the user side.

Then why don't businesses simply raise the prices of products rather than cutting jobs? They don't always just raise prices to increase revenue, they look at cost cutting initiatives.

If you were running a company and saw that you could save "X" amount by changing production methods, would you?


I'm definitely leaving now lol I've voiced my opinion and others have disagreed. That's what makes the world interesting.

Originally posted by aaron2209
If those costs are all per week, then that equals $291.20 per year. If I'm getting a tax cut of $300 per year, I'm actually ahead.

The world will not end tomorrow because of the carbon tax.

*Sigh

You can bet on the fact that that tax form will be raised in the near future ,probably as soon as next year ...and the next..... They are only doing this to reduce the backlash that is currently ongoing, then it fades and the tax will be raised yearly.

company cost cutting is just another term for wage decrease, employee reduction.

it take time and money to reinvent production methods, work practices, training and skill management all for what, saving a few dollars over a longer term gamble of sustainability or growth with increased profit.

even though mining produces the biggest carbon footprint, many of these companies already conform to quality govenment standards required from it's polluting by upgrading and retro fitting of improved designs, planting of acres of tree's and shrubs, quality control of reduced waste and air management systems,
where then should it end, should nuclear energy be implemented, considering it is cheaper and more population serving, solar is not a pradtical method by all means, with all it's regulations and control, people are still out of pocket and government still rakes in the rewards. all in the name of being 'green'

this is only the beginning, more rise will come.

These people are out of their minds. Laws and taxes based on inconclusive science and speculation? Will there be a vampire tax next? A save the unicorn foundation? Are the requirements to make something fact now based on influence rather than evidence? This woman should be thrown out of the country.

reply to post by daaskapital


This pisses me right off.

You know what pisses me off more then the actual tax itself?

Is the fact that Gillard looked 22 million people in the eye and lied straight to their face. That is what i would equate to a stray dog coming into your house and dragging it's ass along your carpet then you being forced to pay to get it cleaned

Living in SA, we have the highest electricity bills on Earth and it's still increasing, i am looking forward to this tax, immensely.

Originally posted by aaron2209

Originally posted by stanguilles7
So, if you cut back your use of electricity, etc, do you still get to keep the $300 rebate? That could end up being a net gain for a lot of people, no?

Indeed but fear mongering is fun

with all this fear mongering going on, I would like to ask you a question

after the first couple of years of the carbon tax being in place, the system changes to an ETS in 2015 when the price will be set by the market.

what will the price be when a commodity of carbon becomes traded?
will the average Australian be holding out their hands for the next round of handouts which the government will say that it cannot afford due to it no longer being a tax and receiving the tax revenue?

We all have our eyes set a few days ahead and forget about a few years ahead, the coalition will not be able to scrap the tax even if they win the next election due to the lower house possibly being hostile.

This isn't just about a carbon tax to save the planet, this has a lot more to do with giving our control over to the markets and rich and powerful individuals.

They say the price of living overall will go up by $9.90 per week when my electricity bill ALONE will cost an extra $10 per week.

Their compensation won't even cover the increase in my electricity price let alone anything else.

reply to post by Rockpuck


What? The government that did this was ALP (Australian Labor Party) and the Australian Greens. The LNP (Liberal National Party) are not our current government and have sworn to abolish the carbon tax when they're voted in.

Double post, sorry*.

Delete if possible.

reply to post by daaskapital


Carbon has 6 Protons, 6 Neutrons and 6 Electrons. Consult this thread: UNESCO BIOSPHERE RESERVES - The New Gold Standard of People Carbon trading is code for control of people and making Carbon a commodity. In the first century, the Builders had made the literal temple a den of thieves. In our day and age, the temple is now seen for what it represented--the human body. The mark of mankind is Carbon. The new den of thieves is the material that makes the true temple of the Heart--Carbon.

Revelation 13

17 so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name.

18 This calls for wisdom. Let the person who has insight calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man.[e - or of mankind] That number is 666.

Where does this lead? Once the test case is complete in the UK and the world markets are fully crashed, the "New" reserve will be there waiting from the UN. The new gold standard is the land that has no carbon emissions. Every country has this land. The UN calls them biosphere "reserves." What are they reserved for? Trading and development for resources.

Originally posted by BeforeTheHangmansNoose
reply to post by daaskapital

 

This pisses me right off.

You know what pisses me off more then the actual tax itself?

Is the fact that Gillard looked 22 million people in the eye and lied straight to their face. That is what i would equate to a stray dog coming into your house and dragging it's ass along your carpet then you being forced to pay to get it cleaned

Living in SA, we have the highest electricity bills on Earth and it's still increasing, i am looking forward to this tax, immensely.

Its been a while since I've seen you on here mate

Yeah I know what you mean, but its not like its anything new. Politicians lie to us all the time no wonder they are the least trusted of professions right under Bankers but just above journalists!!

The problem is that taxes only ever go up, they never come down.

So now the sweetener to get this through is to show people they'll either be no worse off or slightly better off.

Then in 3 years time they'll hike the tax up and you'll all be well out of pocket.

The hard part is to get the tax approved in the first place, once it's there they can do what they like.

I posted this in the other thread with the same name, but seeing as this thread has recieved more attention I shall paste it here too...



As far as I am concerned, I have lost all faith in our entire political system. It is a 3 ring circus, not somewhere a country is governed from.

Whether Labor or Liberal win this next election, I care not. I wont be at the polls, I will be awaiting my fine notice for not voting - just like the last time. I would rather pay $50 than be responsible for voting in another bunch of air raid sirens.

it's sad

sad that we have to be threatened with a tax to realize we are killing the planet that gives us life

and sadder that the governements can't just stand up to them on their own, they have to go through the back door and force conservation via threats of taxes

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
it's sad

sad that we have to be threatened with a tax to realize we are killing the planet that gives us life

and sadder that the governements can't just stand up to them on their own, they have to go through the back door and force conservation via threats of taxes

Oh get real, how on earth can a tax save the environment?

What next, the flu tax to try and stop people coming down with seasonal illnesses.

It's ridiculous, if you've swallowed the baloney of the environment that has been used to justify the creation of a carbon trading platform and tax then I feel sorry for you.

The carbon trading platform is basically trading in a hypothesis - carbon credits - something created from nothing and that you now have to pay for.

It will make those controlling the markets $Trillions - that is what it's all about.

Originally posted by Power_Semi

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
it's sad

sad that we have to be threatened with a tax to realize we are killing the planet that gives us life

and sadder that the governements can't just stand up to them on their own, they have to go through the back door and force conservation via threats of taxes

Oh get real, how on earth can a tax save the environment?

What next, the flu tax to try and stop people coming down with seasonal illnesses.

It's ridiculous, if you've swallowed the baloney of the environment that has been used to justify the creation of a carbon trading platform and tax then I feel sorry for you.

The carbon trading platform is basically trading in a hypothesis - carbon credits - something created from nothing and that you now have to pay for.

It will make those controlling the markets $Trillions - that is what it's all about.

edit on 30-6-2012 by Power_Semi because: (no reason given)

edit on 30-6-2012 by Power_Semi because: (no reason given)

Yeah I agree with Power Semi, since when have these corporatist elites been concerned with the environment its always been about money.

reply to post by daaskapital


You have to stop it to prevent increase taxes in Australia

reply to post by aaron2209


Cutting jobs is a way to drive down production cost. They rather do that when they want to keep a competetive edge over other companies than raise prices.

Though with the introduction of this tax, which will apply to all companies in a certain branch, all companies will have their production cost going up and i'm pretty sure there have already been backroom talks amongst eachother on how they're gonna raise prices to compensate.

You can't keep cutting jobs all the time, your company needs the "resources" to stay operational.