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The point of no return. Australia's Carbon Tax coming this Weekend

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posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 02:29 AM
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Originally posted by Laokin
Those prices are by now standards. After the tax is instated and the price of the $5 can has to raise, lets say it goes to $6... What do you think the company with the $4 can is going to do?

It's not going to stay $4, it's going to go to $5.


Don't forget we are being compensated for these rises and quite possibly a competitor will want to undercut that.


Prices can very easily be driven up, and if I'm undercutting my competitor, I'm going to undercut by just enough to get you to purchase my product and MAXIMIZE my profit at the same time.


Is your competitor just going to be happy with being undercut and losing market share?


P.S.
People will pay the extra dollar because the product is the one they like.


So it is within their power to reduce their costs? They just choose not to.

Edit: I'm buggered lol I'm off for the night. I'll join you tomorrow to watch the sky fall
Take it easy
edit on 30-6-2012 by aaron2209 because: (no reason given)




posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 02:44 AM
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Originally posted by aaron2209
reply to post by mainidh
 


Not when consumers are buying the cheaper alternative produced via environmentally means.


I'd love to see the numbers. I bet that don't stack up to how things are in every other aspect of living, which this affects.

We all like to think we're doing our bit. The rich can, if they want. The poor have no choice. And who is hit hardest? Despite the subsidy it does not work out the way you think..



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 02:46 AM
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Originally posted by aaron2209
Looking at my electricity bill and the recent letter I have received regarding the carbon tax rise, my electricity will cost approx $80-$90 more a year.

Not quite the impact espoused by many.
edit on 30-6-2012 by aaron2209 because: (no reason given)


Count in the rest of it. Already over the average and you admit it. And you can pay for it, it appears.

A lot of people are already under the line when it comes to affording their budget.

Good to know you're ok with paying more for what amounts to free money given to the government.



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 02:47 AM
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Originally posted by aaron2209

Originally posted by Laokin
Those prices are by now standards. After the tax is instated and the price of the $5 can has to raise, lets say it goes to $6... What do you think the company with the $4 can is going to do?

It's not going to stay $4, it's going to go to $5.


Don't forget we are being compensated for these rises and quite possibly a competitor will want to undercut that.


Prices can very easily be driven up, and if I'm undercutting my competitor, I'm going to undercut by just enough to get you to purchase my product and MAXIMIZE my profit at the same time.


Is your competitor just going to be happy with being undercut and losing market share?


P.S.
People will pay the extra dollar because the product is the one they like.


So it is within their power to reduce their costs? They just choose not to.



Something is lost in translation somewhere....

First of all, not every one is a cheapskate. Everyone has different levels of income. Somebody who makes less will be more driven to the cheaper product. Someone who makes less will be more driven to conserve.

The people who make megalithic money, will still buy the expensive stuff they Like. They won't care about the carbon tax, because their way of living will not change.

The low income earner's way of living will change. The cuts are based on ESTIMATES of market value inflation. They are CONSERVATIVE figures. It is not FACTUAL that you will get more in assistance than you spend on the new tax. Nowhere in any report does it say anything different.

They are ESTIMATES. Government estimates are always low balled, because they sit better with the public.

When that tax cut and assistance is no longer given, the prices of things will not go down. They will already be higher than estimates. The green companies will raise price because they CAN and still be the more affordable option.

Your monies value is decreased. The assistance is removed. The products are more expensive. Your income is the same or lower. The green stuff that used to be cheap is now the price of the non green stuff before the tax, except your dollar is worth less....

This is economic suicide... the rich will be unaffected, the middle class will become low class, the low class will become street dwellers.

This is class warfare at it's finest, you just don't have ANY understanding of the PURPOSE of taxes.

You don't have ANY understanding of economy.

You don't have ANY understanding of market value and how prices are driven.

All you have is, "They said their estimate for the average household is around $270 a year, and they are giving me $300 so I'm gaining."

The ONLY fact in that entire statement is they are going to give SOME people who QUALIFY $300 at the END of the first fiscal year it's in effect.


Everything I said so far has BEEN fact.

This will drive prices of BOTH green and non green products.

The cuts WERE instated to quell a dissenting public.

Historically Tax cuts are removed, so it's nearly a guarantee that these cuts will evaporate, or the restrictions for qualification will raise.

Taxes are also FACTUALLY MADE TO INCREASE THE REVENUE OF THOSE TAKING THE TAX. IF NOT, THERE IS NO POINT IN THE TAX AT ALL.


You are intelligent, not in what you know, but your capacity to learn. So stop thinking you know it all and crack open a history book. Google tax codes, question why they did it in secret (the answer is because the public wouldn't allow it) ask yourself why the greater public is against it, educate yourself.


I'm done with this, you're obviously a naive kid or a shill trying to convert people into supporting carbon taxes being a "Sheeple" as you so called put it.

You call other people sheep, the only sheep here is you -- why? Because you take a government supplied ESTIMATE ON MARKET VALUE as fact.

From AUSTRALIA'S government! I mean seriously, you guys are getting played by BOTH the U.S. AND China.

Products are already vastly inflated compared to other countries. Not only this, but you have ridiculous fees for all services. Bandwidth Caps and Overage Fee's? Everything raises with a carbon tax. Electricity that raises. Gas that raises. All consumer good raise, even clothing. Food raises, traffic tickets raise, Carbon tax is the tax on BREATHING.

It's more than just what you buy at the super market, it's literally going to affect everything you can spend money on... if electric bills alone are estimated to raise $80-$90 that's almost a whole third of the tax cut IF YOU QUALIFY.

How in the hell is $300 going to stretch that far?

It's impossible, especially when that $300 is less valuable than $300 before the Carbon Tax.


You keep saying "We'll see tomorrow when the sky falls."

No. You won't. The sky won't fall for at LEAST a minimum of a year. You have to cover all of these rising expenses on your own until you file for taxes at the end of the year.

See me when you don't get your $300, or when you do get your $300 but realize that after getting this money back your finances are still behind $500.

See me the following year or two when the cut is no longer applicable.
edit on 30-6-2012 by Laokin because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 02:51 AM
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Originally posted by aaron2209
reply to post by 74Templar
 


And now it will become more financially efficient to seek out environmentally friendly methods.


Wow...


You're loving having to pay more? Or are you just that well off that it's not a problem.. Here is the crux of the argument; the answer IS the problem.

People do want to change.. and the answer is to make them worse off..

Hello cheap imports to the neglect of local produce. Hello online buying to the neglect of local companies. Hello China for new Aussie flags. Wave it proudly, it's a sign of local costly products being undermined by the desires of necessity.

What a state of affairs..

You cannot cut corners on the basics however, which 99% of the people will still buy. And at a raised price.. Must be nice to be so well off..



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 02:59 AM
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Originally posted by mainidh

Originally posted by aaron2209
reply to post by 74Templar
 


And now it will become more financially efficient to seek out environmentally friendly methods.


Wow...


You're loving having to pay more? Or are you just that well off that it's not a problem.. Here is the crux of the argument; the answer IS the problem.

People do want to change.. and the answer is to make them worse off..

Hello cheap imports to the neglect of local produce. Hello online buying to the neglect of local companies. Hello China for new Aussie flags. Wave it proudly, it's a sign of local costly products being undermined by the desires of necessity.

What a state of affairs..

You cannot cut corners on the basics however, which 99% of the people will still buy. And at a raised price.. Must be nice to be so well off..




^^^^^

This guy gets it.

Carbon tax is the beginning of the end of the Australian Economy.

All the worlds economies are falling like dominoes, by design.


edit on 30-6-2012 by Laokin because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 03:04 AM
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reply to post by aaron2209
 


Average.. maybe.. but some of us have vastly less than that.

I have a chair. And I watch tv on a USB tv stick on my pc. I turn the hot water off at night and let the water get cold by dawn. I turn everything off. Nothing has a clock except the 1 D cell wall clock.

I eat frugally. I brew my own grog. I make sure I have enough money by the end of the week just to make sure if the power goes out I can still buy rice or noodles.

Average may be what you think, but I don't rely on much... And this will affect me in ways I cannot afford. I choose this way to live because I prefer to be as disconnected from reliance as possible.

They can't get me any other way, this is how they do it.

PLasma tv... ffs.. your world would crumble if you lost your job. I bet.



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 03:11 AM
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Originally posted by aaron2209

Yes but all that means is products made by environmentally friendly methods will be that much cheaper.



get real,


demand does not necessitate cheaper products through any industry governed by this blatent tax scheme, only those in the business that take their manufacturing away from australian workers and give to cheaper oversea's competition for profit gain stand to win.
edit on 30-6-2012 by redgy because: added line



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 03:24 AM
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I thought you might be interested in this from a retired ex-serviceman (26 years service) in Oz who sent it to our Melbourne Sun-Herald:

Quote:
"Today the Australian Government advised me of the annual adjustment to my pension.
The amount is calculated according to the Consumer Price Index (CPI) and they were good enough to explain the formula.
The March 2012 CPI minus the September 2011 CPI divided by the September 2011 CPI.
The answer worked out to be 0.0557% which the Government have graciously 'rounded' to 1.00%.
It means my pension will be increased by 1 dollar per fortnight - 25 dollars per year.
I know this is not fair comparing this increase with the Politicians pay rise, it's not fair trying to make a comparison with the increased costs of electricity, water, gas, car registration or the 'Aged Pension' increase.
It's not fair - it's a bl00dy disgrace"!

Unquote:

Meanwhile, that other lying ex-Prime Minister "Honest" (Don't make me laugh) John "There will never ever be a GST under my Government" Howard, travels the world on a Gold (everything for free) Card (how these people can sleep at night has got me tossed when they have multi million dollar superannuation pensions) and has racked up a 100,000 dollar traveling bill in the past twelve months.
Mark my words, the next move will be to increase the GST (that's a Goods and Services Tax for those outside of Oz) which is currently at 10%. In the UK they are currently paying 20% on their equivalent (VAT - value added tax).
I have just received notice that I am to have a "Smart Meter" installed on MY property, which I have to pay for, which will cut my suppliers cost down as they won't have to send a person round to read my meter any more. So my electricity bill will go down then"? Errm, no, it will probably go up owing to running costs!
They're 'smart' all right these pollies. The unemployed and pensioners don't pay taxes so we'll get them with their power and food bills - something they cannot go without. They then give themselves multi million dollar superannuation pensions BUT so they don't have to spend any of it, give themselves a 'Gold Card' so that they get practically everything for free. This is for LIFE people so just how many of these multi millionaire snakes are there and just how much annually are they milking the system for?



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 03:28 AM
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Originally posted by mainidh

Originally posted by aaron2209
Looking at my electricity bill and the recent letter I have received regarding the carbon tax rise, my electricity will cost approx $80-$90 more a year.

Not quite the impact espoused by many.
edit on 30-6-2012 by aaron2209 because: (no reason given)


Count in the rest of it. Already over the average and you admit it. And you can pay for it, it appears.

A lot of people are already under the line when it comes to affording their budget.

Good to know you're ok with paying more for what amounts to free money given to the government.



Considering electricity was going to rise at least 7% (approx $50-$60) anyway no, it's doesn't make that much of a difference.



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 03:30 AM
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reply to post by Laokin
 


Well I guess I'll be a street dweller within the year than.

I get the feeling you guys think I have cash coming out of my rear end because I support this. Well I don't. I earn between minimum and the "average".



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 03:32 AM
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Originally posted by aaron2209
If those costs are all per week, then that equals $291.20 per year. If I'm getting a tax cut of $300 per year, I'm actually ahead.

The world will not end tomorrow because of the carbon tax.


If that's the case,why introduce carbon tax in the first place?They can keep their $300.00 and leave us alone.So your logic is the government looses $8.80 per household per year?I don't think so, the government never loose's.

This is illegal and unconstitutional,we never had a referedum!

Your world will not end tomorrow,but it is going to fall in a heap around you and leave your delusion shattered!
edit on 30-6-2012 by 13th Zodiac because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 03:33 AM
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Originally posted by mainidh
reply to post by aaron2209
 


Average.. maybe.. but some of us have vastly less than that.

I have a chair. And I watch tv on a USB tv stick on my pc. I turn the hot water off at night and let the water get cold by dawn. I turn everything off. Nothing has a clock except the 1 D cell wall clock.

I eat frugally. I brew my own grog. I make sure I have enough money by the end of the week just to make sure if the power goes out I can still buy rice or noodles.

Average may be what you think, but I don't rely on much... And this will affect me in ways I cannot afford. I choose this way to live because I prefer to be as disconnected from reliance as possible.

They can't get me any other way, this is how they do it.

PLasma tv... ffs.. your world would crumble if you lost your job. I bet.



Yes my current world would crumble if I lost my job. What is wrong with working and enjoying the fruits of my labour?



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 03:35 AM
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reply to post by 13th Zodiac
 


It is based on the idea that over time business will see an expense that can be limited so will attempt to limit it.

What kind of business wouldn't try to cut costs?

Also we don't have referendums on every piece of legislation.
edit on 30-6-2012 by aaron2209 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 03:42 AM
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reply to post by aaron2209
 


Your fruit, you say?

I beg to differ. Their fruit. You've got no fruit.

Im outta here, it's going nowhere.



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 03:43 AM
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Originally posted by aaron2209
Here's what I'm going to do....

If products/services I use rise in price due to the carbon tax, I will switch to cheaper alternatives which will more than likely be products/services that pollute less therefore not paying as much carbon tax. This in turn will force other businesses to change their ways to minimise their carbon tax to be able to price match.

All the while still receiving my $300 per year tax cut.


Ahh your one of those brainwashed communist greens.Green on the outside red on the inside.Go sprinkle some magical fairy dust some where else or go kill the environment with good intensions.Never heard so much rubbish, as if.Go troll somewhere else.



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 03:45 AM
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Originally posted by aaron2209
reply to post by mainidh
 


So are you telling me that a business paying $500M a year in carbon tax (a number out of thin air) wouldn't look at that figure and think "Hmmm how can we lower this by utilising less pollution producing methods"?

That will be the first thing they do.


Yeah right they will just pass it on to the consumer.Duh



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 03:46 AM
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Cheers for all the name calling guys.

Great to have a discussion with such nice people



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 03:51 AM
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Originally posted by aaron2209
reply to post by deessell
 


Because I believe it will work and is not the end of the world. Before anyone claims otherwise, I am no fan of Labor or Liberal. They are as bad as each other!


Of coarse you not,your a stinking green.Your man Brown got where he has alway's wanted to be and then quits?In a hurry to marry his man friend I guess.
edit on 30-6-2012 by 13th Zodiac because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 03:53 AM
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Originally posted by 13th Zodiac

Originally posted by aaron2209
reply to post by deessell
 


Because I believe it will work and is not the end of the world. Before anyone claims otherwise, I am no fan of Labor or Liberal. They are as bad as each other!


Of coarse you not,your a stinking green.Your man Brown got where he has alway's wanted to be and then quits?In a hurry to marry his man friend I guess.
edit on 30-6-2012 by 13th Zodiac because: (no reason given)


Mate, you don't know me. Don't take out your frustrations on me. You're showing your true colours.





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