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Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by daaskapital
You Australians deserve it. You elect these crackpot Liberals.. you deserve the tax burden they will push on you.
The index of electricity prices in Australia has remained within a band of plus or minus 5% of the Consumer Price Index (CPI) for the 22 years between 1986 and 2008. But since then electricity prices have increased by 40% relative to CPI. 1 This is shown in Figure E1:
Following a series of decisions by the Australian Energy Regulator (AER) in 2009 and 2010, distributors’ revenues in constant currency will increase on average by 7%3 per annum for the next four years, roughly double the rate of the last 10 years.
Originally posted by 74Templar
Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by daaskapital
You Australians deserve it. You elect these crackpot Liberals.. you deserve the tax burden they will push on you.
Just to set the record straight, Australia did NOT vote in Gillard or even the Labour government.
No Carbon Tax
As an American I thought you would know about broken promises Rock.
Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by 74Templar
Doesn't matter. You let it happen. Just like we let the travesty that is Obamacare happen. Now we have dumbasses thinking that buying insurance = universal healthcare, and you have dumbasses thinking taxing Carbon will curb pollution. Ultimately it will just make you middle and lower classes poorer.
Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by 74Templar
Doesn't matter. You let it happen. Just like we let the travesty that is Obamacare happen. Now we have dumbasses thinking that buying insurance = universal healthcare, and you have dumbasses thinking taxing Carbon will curb pollution. Ultimately it will just make you middle and lower classes poorer.
Originally posted by HumanCondition
Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by 74Templar
Doesn't matter. You let it happen. Just like we let the travesty that is Obamacare happen. Now we have dumbasses thinking that buying insurance = universal healthcare, and you have dumbasses thinking taxing Carbon will curb pollution. Ultimately it will just make you middle and lower classes poorer.
Only thing is that it is not a result of voting for this party or that party like you claim.
It is a result of letting our political system be governed by money and not we the people.
Just like in the US the major parties in Australia are just as bad as each other and in reality virtually exactly the same however different they may appear.
What are you talking about? Labor ended up in power through a perfectly democratic process.
Would you be complaining if it were the Liberals that made deals with Independents? I should hope so. What would you have preferred to happen when it's a deadlock like it was?
If anything, it's more representative. Neither party has complete power to pass whatever BS they want
Originally posted by daaskapital
This is it people. Australia's Carbon Tax is coming on the 1st of July.
It all began with Australia's current Prime Minister winning an election on the promise that there would "not be a carbon tax under any government i lead." This was eventually proven to be a lie when she forced it through with teh help of the Greens. The Australian public, for the majority have been against this move and our Prime Minister ever since she forced it in. Perhaps the reason as to why we are opposed is because we did not get a say. In fact, recently when Gillard (our PM) was asked about the fact that the public didn't get to vote, she responded with "It's already been passed, so there's nothing no one can do to stop it." Or something similar to that. This reply disgusted me, knowing that our PM does not care for the people, only for those in power.
When the initial backlash destroyed her credibility, she defended the decision, stating that there would not be any affect on the people whatsoever. The majority of the people however were smart enough not to fall for those false claims. It is obvious that the big companies who will get taxed do not want to lose money. So, what are they going to do? I know, raise their prices so consumers must pay more. That is a way to not lose any money from the tax. Reviewing this, it is evident that the tax will not do anything but raise the prices of consumer available products and essentials.
The government has finally acknowledged this and is attempting to give out tax benefits to families...
This is where it gets interesting
The government has stated that it will provide tax cuts for the public as a result of the Carbon Tax:
Singles on low and middle incomes will get tax cuts to help them with the expected increase in living costs. Some low-income households might not receive enough assistance through tax cuts or Government payments to offset their average expected cost impact under a carbon price. These households will be able to apply for an annual, tax-exempt Low Income Supplement of $300.
The Government will introduce legislation to ensure that those Australians that need help the most, particularly pensioners and low and middle income households, will get assistance to help manage increases in the cost of living from the carbon price. On average, households will see cost increases of $9.90 per week, while the average assistance will be $10.10 per week.
From 1 July 2012, all taxpayers with incomes of up to $80,000 will get a tax cut, with most receiving at least $300 per year. This means around 60 per cent of taxpayers will get a tax cut of at least $300. No one will pay more income tax as a result of the carbon price package.
www.cleanenergyfuture.gov.au...
We will get tax cuts of at least $300...
That is pathetic...
When you compare the following with the tax cuts, it is evident that the public is getting shafted:
Treasury estimates for the average Australian household electricity will rise by $3.30 per week, gas by $1.50, and food by 80 cents under the carbon price.
www.abc.net.au...
The average Australian household spends much more money than the estimated amount that we will receive through tax cuts. $300 is nothing compared to the...thousands that the average household spends on essentials (food, electricity, fuel etc), yet all those aspects are rising as a result of the Carbon Tax.
Here is an interesting table (which, by the way, only estimates the future costs of goods and essentials):
archive.treasury.gov.au...
The Carbon tax will lead the Australian public down a path of ruin, and for what? For the elite to get more power...?
Regardless, it is quite evident that the public is getting shafted by this Carbon Tax/ The Government's planning is flawed and their tax cuts will not be of significant help at all. The Australian public will be doomed.
This all starts on Sunday, the 1st of July...
Originally posted by aaron2209
reply to post by 74Templar
Liberal/Nationals = 6,185,918
Labor = 6,216,445
en.wikipedia.org...
What's the problem? The party that got more votes won.
I do agree that if it was the other way, the discussion would be the same.edit on 30-6-2012 by aaron2209 because: forgot a linkedit on 30-6-2012 by aaron2209 because: (no reason given)edit on 30-6-2012 by aaron2209 because: (no reason given)edit on 30-6-2012 by aaron2209 because: Damn this scotch
Originally posted by aaron2209
If those costs are all per week, then that equals $291.20 per year. If I'm getting a tax cut of $300 per year, I'm actually ahead.
The world will not end tomorrow because of the carbon tax.
tax
Pronunciation: /taks/
noun
1a compulsory contribution to state revenue, levied by the government on workers' income and business profits, or added to the cost of some goods, services, and transactions
Originally posted by Laokin
Originally posted by aaron2209
If those costs are all per week, then that equals $291.20 per year. If I'm getting a tax cut of $300 per year, I'm actually ahead.
The world will not end tomorrow because of the carbon tax.
And you... you really think a single person is going to see a net gain?
Originally posted by aaron2209
reply to post by 74Templar
A can of *whatever* from Company A costs $5 including a carbon tax, a can of the same from Company B costs $4 due to utilising environmentally friendly methods of production. Which do you buy? I would assume the product from Company B. Company A realises they need to cut costs in order to price match and regain market share, so they look for ways to reduce their carbon footprint to reduce the burden of the carbon tax in order to sell the product at a similar price.edit on 30-6-2012 by aaron2209 because: (no reason given)edit on 30-6-2012 by aaron2209 because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by aaron2209
Originally posted by Laokin
Originally posted by aaron2209
If those costs are all per week, then that equals $291.20 per year. If I'm getting a tax cut of $300 per year, I'm actually ahead.
The world will not end tomorrow because of the carbon tax.
And you... you really think a single person is going to see a net gain?
Looking at the figures thrown around and utilising my power as a consumer....yes.
Although I do concede that if I wish to continue on in the same way using/consuming whatever I wish without a thought like an everyday sheep then no I won't.edit on 30-6-2012 by aaron2209 because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by Laokin
Do you not acknowledge that tax cuts can be removed?
Do you not acknowledge that people were against carbon tax?
Do you not acknowledge that the best way to convert somebody who is against carbon taxes is to get them to think they will actually GAIN from having this tax?
Do you not understand what the word "Tax" means?
Do you not realize the tax cut was employed as a tactic to quell dissent about the mandated carbon tax?
Do you not realize that if people can make a net gain from not really changing their behavior, that they won't?
Do you not realize that carbon tax is being pushed to try to get people to conserve?
So when conservation doesn't happen, you do realize the cuts will be removed?
I mean.... this is simple stuff really.
Stop being a cheerleader for the looters of your money. You will regret it when you realize their "Estimates" aren't even close to correct.
Originally posted by aaron2209
Originally posted by Laokin
Do you not acknowledge that tax cuts can be removed?
Of course they can.
Do you not acknowledge that people were against carbon tax?
Of course there were/are people against it.
Do you not acknowledge that the best way to convert somebody who is against carbon taxes is to get them to think they will actually GAIN from having this tax?
That goes for any tax. Like I said, from what I can work out, I will gain.
Do you not understand what the word "Tax" means?
I do.
Do you not realize the tax cut was employed as a tactic to quell dissent about the mandated carbon tax?
and I am going to benefit.
Do you not realize that if people can make a net gain from not really changing their behavior, that they won't?
They can increase that gain if they do so why wouldn't you?
Do you not realize that carbon tax is being pushed to try to get people to conserve?
and conserve is what we must do in a world of finite resources.
So when conservation doesn't happen, you do realize the cuts will be removed?
Conservation has to happen.
I mean.... this is simple stuff really.
Indeed.
Stop being a cheerleader for the looters of your money. You will regret it when you realize their "Estimates" aren't even close to correct.
I guess we'll find out when we wake up tomorrow.
Originally posted by aaron2209
reply to post by Laokin
Takes me back to my example earlier regarding the $5 can of *whatever*. What would you do?
If you choose to ignore the cheaper $4 can and continue with your usual purchase of the $5 can, who is to blame?