I got pulled over, tried to get out, then was given a ticket. Found I can't pay it.

As the title says, I was pulled over by a police officer. I tried to get out of it by asking him questions such as "Whose the victim?" and "I like my privacy." But it was all for not.

I live in the USA, then as I was listening to a talk host host from Australia, it got me thinking. 'If what the talk show host said that happened in his country, then is it true in mine?'

This post was most likely done by someone else that was trying to get the word out but at least I tried.

I'll hit the first gear with the Australian Constitution on why I can't pay it.

Here is the page of it.

Section 109 – Inconsistency of laws When a law of a State is inconsistent with a law of the Commonwealth, the latter shall prevail, and the former shall, to the extent of the inconsistency, be invalid.

This says that the people can overrule the state anytime and anywhere.

Section 115 – States not to coin money A State shall not coin money, nor make anything but gold and silver coin a legal tender in payment of debts.

This says that nothing can replace gold and silver currency.

Now for second gear, USA Constitution.

In article I, section 10, paragraph 1 it states.

No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.

This says that dollars are useless. But this also cuts into contracts. No contract, no control.

Did a little more digging and found this. A law school site; specifically article 1.

If your there, look for a title called Limits on the states, very nice.

I'm giving people power here by saying these are their rules, if we play them, they have to play them.

Another weapon in my hand. The name? The Constitution of the United States of America. It's both a shield and a sword.

So please, officers of the Law, leave me alone.

Were you listening to Max Igan? He does talk a lot about personal empowerment.

The average police officer only has about 3 months of law training, they don't know much beyond their everyday encounters regarding the law. Educate yourself and help them educate themselves.

Originally posted by FreedomCommander
As the title says, I was pulled over by a police officer. I tried to get out of it by asking him questions such as "Whose the victim?" and "I like my privacy." But it was all for not.

I live in the USA, then as I was listening to a talk host host from Australia, it got me thinking. 'If what the talk show host said that happened in his country, then is it true in mine?'

This post was most likely done by someone else that was trying to get the word out but at least I tried.

I'll hit the first gear with the Australian Constitution on why I can't pay it.

Here is the page of it.

Section 109 – Inconsistency of laws When a law of a State is inconsistent with a law of the Commonwealth, the latter shall prevail, and the former shall, to the extent of the inconsistency, be invalid.

This says that the people can overrule the state anytime and anywhere.

Section 115 – States not to coin money A State shall not coin money, nor make anything but gold and silver coin a legal tender in payment of debts.

This says that nothing can replace gold and silver currency.

Now for second gear, USA Constitution.

In article I, section 10, paragraph 1 it states.

No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.

This says that dollars are useless. But this also cuts into contracts. No contract, no control.

Did a little more digging and found this. A law school site; specifically article 1.

If your there, look for a title called Limits on the states, very nice.

I'm giving people power here by saying these are their rules, if we play them, they have to play them.

Another weapon in my hand. The name? The Constitution of the United States of America. It's both a shield and a sword.

So please, officers of the Law, leave me alone.

Wow, you just made my head hurt.

Your understanding of that portion of the US constitution is far, far out of whack. Where on earth do you get "dollars are useless" out of that? That part forbids states from creating their own currencies or deeming something else as legal tender for debts.

reply to post by flyswatter


Because if it's a fine, then it would be classified as a debt. If they wrote the rules then the rules say that I can't pay it.

Plus a country is a state.

Pulled over for what? Is your name Jared?

reply to post by Numbers33four


No, don't know who that is.

I was pulled over for a simple speeding thing.

Sad, but it's not right, since it was a rural road.

reply to post by FreedomCommander

If you live in the United States, the Australian Constitution has no effect so let's look at the US Constitution. You will do well to remember that "State" in this section refers to one of the (now 50) states making up the United States. The paragraph says that none of the individul states can crete their own currency for paying debts other than gold and silver coin.

Now the federal government can create money (dollars) for payment of debt and that is what the court will be expecting you to cough up. I don't know what your point is about contracts. I don't see how you entered into one.

Just a bit of advice, don't tell a policeman that he has no constitutional right to stop you, or give you a ticket, or anything like that. If you want to make an argument like that (and more than 90% of the time it's a losing argument), save it for court. But don't act like a jerk there either.

P.s. Rural roads can have speed limits, I don't know of any that don't. Please don't use that as your defense.

Really, just pay your ticket. You never once mentioned if you were wrong or not and that's telling.

You breaky law. You payee fine.

You were speeding you got a ticket. Man up accept your mistake or plead not guilty you may get lucky and the cop doesn't show up. Other than that you are bound to the same laws as everyone else.

You've got the right idea, but obviously you don't understand it at all.

Don't try to pull this stuff when you go to court. They will try to trip you up in a thousand different ways. They are good at it. They know the rules a lot better than you do.

If you attempt this kind of defense but don't know what you are doing, they will come down on you like a ton of bricks. You must know the letter of the law, in its ENTIRETY, to even attempt this kind of defense. There are plenty of people in jail right now that tried the same thing but didn't know what they were doing. Ask them how it worked out for them.

You CAN defeat this type of nonsense. It IS unconstitutional. However, YOU cannot use the Constitution as a defense in any way. To wit:

“But indeed, no person has a right to complain, by suit in Court, on the ground of a breech of the Constitution. The Constitution, it is true, is a compact (contract), but he is not a party to it. The States are a party to it…” (emphasis added). [Padelford, Fay & Co. vs. The Mayor and Alderman of the City of Savannah, 14 Ga. 438 (1854)]

reply to post by charles1952


I know what to say and what not to say.

As long as there is no injured party, then I'm good.

As long as there is no contract, then no one has power over me.

As long as I know my rights, people cannot own me.

This is a clear example of exercising right of ownership. But isn't slavery looked down on and would be considered a crime? Isn't terrorism a crime?

Terrorism, in the Oxford English dictionary, is the use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims. Or Violence or the threat of violence carried out against the citizen in means of coercion for political reasons.

I was using Australia as an example.

But true, people that respond to this negatively, are ones who tried to stand up but were shot down. I'm trying to stand up but if they want me to play their game, then I better read up on the rules.

reply to post by CaptChaos


Ahhh, I see where your getting at.

If I go in there, with the intent of saying they are wrong, they are more likely to squish me than to listen to me.

And like certain people say "If a nation is run by psychopaths, then their morality is the nations morality."

If me, one person, was to go against the system, I'll get eaten.

If one hundred people stood up, then the government, or those that I help to be hired in this fordouchious system, will run away like cowards.

As well, I was exercising my rights, specifically, my right to travel.

Originally posted by FreedomCommander
reply to post by flyswatter

 

Because if it's a fine, then it would be classified as a debt. If they wrote the rules then the rules say that I can't pay it.

Plus a country is a state.

edit on 29-6-2012 by FreedomCommander because: (no reason given)

I'm still scratching my head and making funny faces at my monitor, all in an attempt to figure out how you can possibly think this.

The Limits on the States has the following:
"The final section of Article One outlines the limits on the powers of the states. States may not exercise some powers reserved for the federal government; they may not enter into treaties, alliances or confederations, grant letters of marque or reprisal, coin money or issue bills of credit (such as currency). Furthermore, no state may make anything except gold and silver coin legal tender. The states may not pass bills of attainder, ex post facto laws, impair the obligation of contracts or grant titles of nobility."

In order to understand the whole, you must understand the pieces. With your illogical understanding of the pieces, you will never come to an understanding of the whole.

You are trying to pull something out of nothing here. Your interpretation of this is both incorrect and incoherent. By your reasoning, the state would have no ability to collect money in any way other than voluntary citizen payments.

reply to post by FreedomCommander

As long as there is no contract, then no one has power over me.

When you go through the procedure to get your license your are entering in to a contract. You are agreeing to abide by the posted rules and regulations on the road. You make an agreement to abide by the laws set forth by the state and local municipality. You even go so far as to prove you understand the rules by taking a test to prove that you understand your obligation.

You violate your part of that agreement and you pay the price. It is pretty much breach of contract with the governing body and the others that use the road.

And where is your ticket, guy?

Some people will go to great lengths of reality leaping in trying to explain and cover their misdeeds and mistakes. This guy should be in the US Congrress supporting Obamacare.

reply to post by MikeNice81


But the real question is how ignorant were you when you unknowingly and unwillingly signed the contract that goes by the name of "Drivers Licence"?

I was a fool of a person, I was young and every time that I'm pulled over, or when ever I see a cop, I feel fear. I want that fear gone.

I'm keeping the card, but I will exercise my rights as a human being, as man.

Here is the Right to travel.

So go ahead people, mock me, laugh at me. It will just prove to me...

Originally posted by FreedomCommander
reply to post by MikeNice81

 

But the real question is how ignorant were you when you unknowingly and unwillingly signed the contract that goes by the name of "Drivers Licence"?

I was a fool of a person, I was young and every time that I'm pulled over, or when ever I see a cop, I feel fear. I want that fear gone.

I'm keeping the card, but I will exercise my rights as a human being, as man.

Here is the Right to travel.

So go ahead people, mock me, laugh at me. It will just prove to me...

edit on 30-6-2012 by FreedomCommander because: (no reason given)

Right to Travel =/= Right to operate a motor vehicle

Please, please, please ... let your license lapse. And dont bother with insurance. And open your big mouth to cops. I beg you to do these things. Eventually you will no longer be able to post on this board because you will be locked up, and nobody will have to read this garbage.

reply to post by FreedomCommander


How does this affect others?

This would fit better in the rant section.

It tokk me 15 plus years to learn,

Yes sir

No sir

I apologize sir,

And you know what, it actually works. I got pulled over for doing 67 in a 55 then reduced my speed to 57 in a 45, I was entering a small town on the highway. The officer was pretty stern but I just apologized and did not deny that I was speeding.

I also got a warning two years ago for fishing with no fishing license, have you ever heard of anyone getting a warning for that, it is usually a garunteed ticket. I was sincere to the ranger and I told him "you got me officer" when he approached. I manned up to the law and it pays off in the long run.

The point being is that when you act like a fool, you get treated like a fool.

If you break the law, any law, man up and more often then not it pays off with eother a reduced ticket or no ticket at all.

An officer does not want a "person" telling them that they have no right to write them a ticket, it is their job for crying out loud