Jimmy Carter, Israel and "Apartheid"

So Jimmy Carter has often been thought of as a good guy. He certainly makes an effort to give that impression, and he has often been called by many liberals 'a great president'. In the last few years, this 'beloved' president has gone on the offensive against Israel. Let's analyze some of his allegations.

Alan Dershowitz writes in "The Case against Israel's Enemies"

Most egregious of all is Carters use of the word apartheid and other terms associated with it. He fails to describe the apartheid system in south africa, which does not remotely resemble Israel - the pervasive racial segregation laws; the censorship of the media; the banning of political parties; the torture and murder of human rights activists in detention; the indoctrination of children with racial ideology; the removal of voting rights from the blacks; the use of death penalty for political crimes; and so on. His omission is obviously willful, because any accurate description of real apartheid would make it clear to the reader that the word applies far more precisely to Palestinian governance than to Israeli governance, even on the west bank

So in Carter's mind, what's happening in Israel is apartheid. Ok. What about the genocide in Darfur...what does Jimmy think of that??

There is a legal definition of genocide and Darfur does not meet that legal standard. The atrocities wre horrible but I do not think it qualifies to be called genocide - Jimmy Carter

Oh...Interesting. So he willfully exaggerates and blows out of all rational proportion the meaning of the term apartheid, but in a case of a veritable genocide, he resists applying that term because it doesn't meet his interpretation of an official definition? (even though the hague has called it genocide?)

Back to Apartheid.

As Rhoda Kadalie and Julie Bertlsmann, two black South African women, wrote recently,

Israel is not an apartheid state...Arab citizens of Israel can vote and serve in the knesset; black South Africans could not vote until 1994. There are no laws in Israel that discriminate against Arab citizens or separate them from Jews....South Africa had a job reservation policy for white people; Israel has adopted pro-Arab affirmative action measures in some sectors. Israeli schools, universities and hospitals make no distinction between Jews and Arabs. An Arab citizen who brings a case before Israeli court will have that case decided on the basis of merits, not ethnicity. This was never the case for blacks under apartheid.

Most appalling is Carters assertion that what "Israel has done to the Palestinians" is worse than what happened in Rwanda. Dershowitz writes:

The apartheid analogy is not the only analogy Carter abuses. When he was asked by by Chris Matthews in a live television interview whether he believed that Israel's "persecution" of Palestinians was "even worse.... than a place like Rwanda", Carter answered, " Yes. I think - yes". The comparison is obscene. Nearly one million civilians were murdered in a matter of weeks during the Rwandan genocide. The number of Israelis and Palestinians killed during any comparable period of time has, at worst, been in the hundreds, nearly all the result of Palestinian terrorism and Israeli efforts to stop it. The Rwandan victims never had a chance to prevent the killing. In contrast, the Palestinians have repeatedly chosen violence instead of negotiations and have refused to sign or honor any peace deal, from the generous terms of the Peel commission in 1937 until the present day. To compare Rwanda to Israel is insulting not only to Israel, but to the memory of the Rwandan victims, who were brutally raped, tortured, mutilated, and murdered by soldiers and machete wielding militias. and civilians in what can only be described as a genocide.

Here's a transcript of the Chris Matthews-Jimmy Carter conversation if you doubt it's veracity.

MSNBC Link

So what is Jimmy Carters deal?? His use of the Apartheid analogy is blatantly false and his lack of clarification of how that comparisons applies in relation to the system in South Africa has been deliberately omitted; his belief that what Israel does is worse than Rwanda is just off the scale in it's obscenity - and on that case alone should it be seen what kind of moral fraud Jimmy Carter is.. And his insistence in 2007 that what's happening in Darfur doesn't meet the definition of genocide is simply astounding.

It seems to me that Carter's demonization of Israel by misusing the word apartheid against it, coupled by his watering down of what the ARABS of the north are doing to the blacks in the south, WREAKS of politicization. He amplifies one situation and tones down another all for the purpose of strengthening public attention on Israel and off of Darfur.

This is the kind of miscreant Jimmy Carter is.

Ok ,explain to us then in your own words how apartheid in S Africa is different to that in the occupied territories?
This should be good...im all ears.......

reply to post by auraelium


Did you not read the post?

For one, Israel doesn't govern in the "occupied territories"; they withdrew from 5 major population centers in the west bank in 1995 and completely withdrew from Gaza in 2005. They maintain a presence primarily in settlement areas, on the highways between settlement areas (and for the sake of security, they often stop Arabs, who throw rocks or fire bombs at cars driving by) and on the hilltops adjacent to Israel.

Now HOW ON EARTH is this apartheid? You insult south African blacks by using that term. And you also expose you ignorance by not knowing a simple thing either about Israel or Apartheid South Africa.

Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by auraelium

 

Did you not read the post?

For one, Israel doesn't govern in the "occupied territories"; they withdrew from 5 major population centers in the west bank in 1995 and completely withdrew from Gaza in 2005. They maintain a presence primarily in settlement areas, on the highways between settlement areas (and for the sake of security, they often stop Arabs, who throw rocks or fire bombs at cars driving by) and on the hilltops adjacent to Israel.

Now HOW ON EARTH is this apartheid? You insult south African blacks by using that term. And you also expose you ignorance by not knowing a simple thing either about Israel or Apartheid South Africa.

I think its sad that you choose to slander a good man who has tried against all odd to bring some peace to the region, but conveniently ignore the crimes of Israeli Zionists who have brought nothing but death and despair....you should be ashamed ...

reply to post by dontreally

So Jimmy Carter has often been thought of as a good guy. He certainly makes an effort to give that impression,

Carter is a good guy. In fact he is a very good Christian man with an enormous intellect. He is also an American patriot who cares about all Americans irrespective of their station in life.

Your beef with Carter has nothing to do with anything "liberal" because you only mention this as a bait for those on the political right. Your beef is strictly to do with Jimmy Carter's criticism of the Zionist Apartheid state.

No doubt about it, you are a zionist and you show disrespect to a man who elected as president by the American people because your first loyalty is Israel.

I can honestly say ....I don't believe a word any Modern president says anymore about anything because his views have been bought and instilled in him by his bosses.

All I hear form them is Bla bla bla bla.

reply to post by dontreally


No, of course Israel does not occupy the "occupied territories." --Did you ever stop to consider why those areas are call "occupied territories?" That is done to avoid say that they people there are the rightful occupiers of most of Israel and have been pushed into very confined areas.

.What we we could discuss is how the "occupied territories" are really nothing more that very large, open air prisons for hundreds of thousands of innocent people. The parameters are more secure than most prisons. And countless ways have been found to steal more and more of the land from the rightful inhabitants. Let's talk about that. Jimmy Carter speaks a truth that few dare that are active in politics. Israel apartheid? the facts say, yes.


And you seem to totally ignore the fact that hardly anyone has any rights in Israel but jews

Really, I think you are messing with the wrong crowd here with this limpid manner of defense for Israel. But frankly, in my estimation, there is no adequate defense of Israel that should take precedent over others that inhabit the same area and had formerly claimed that area for their own.

reply to post by dontreally


Jimmy is right, or are you claiming your intel is better than that of an ex-president?
Either way Jimmy is right, israel is an oppressive terrorist state.
I know they are guilty of at the very least one atrocity against the US, that's good enough for me.
Remember the U.S.S LIBERTY.

reply to post by dontreally


My friend,
it's like trying to get some sense into a kid lying down on a Kmart floor, screaming and waving his feet for not getting his Hershey bar.

Israel is not an Apartheid state....”Yeah, but remember the USS Liberty”
Muslims kills more of their own in one week than in any Israel-Arab conflicts combined.....” Yeah, but remember the 5 dancing Israelis”.
Over 5 millions were killed in the Congo war....."Yeah, but Israel, Evil, genocide"

There was a time I thought that the only way this terrorists sympathizers will learn, is if they or they loved ones are hit by terrorists.
Today I know, no matter what, they would put the blame on Israel/US/Mossad/Zionists/Rothschild

Originally posted by gravitational
reply to post by dontreally

 

My friend,
it's like trying to get some sense into a kid lying down on a Kmart floor, screaming and waving his feet for not getting his Hershey bar.

Israel is not an Apartheid state....”Yeah, but remember the USS Liberty”
Muslims kills more of their own in one week than in any Israel-Arab conflicts combined.....” Yeah, but remember the 5 dancing Israelis”.
Over 5 millions were killed in the Congo war....."Yeah, but Israel, Evil, genocide"

There was a time I thought that the only way this terrorists sympathizers will learn, is if they or they loved ones are hit by terrorists.
Today I know, no matter what, they would put the blame on Israel/US/Mossad/Zionists/Rothschild

Nelson Mandela on israeli apartheid;

In the last few years, and especially during the reign of the Labour Party, Israel showed that it was not even willing to return what it occupied in 1967; that settlements remain, Jerusalem would be under exclusive Israeli sovereignty, and Palestinians would not have an independent state, but would be under Israeli economic domination with Israeli control of borders, land, air, water and sea.

Israel was not thinking of a "state" but of "separation". The value of separation is measured in terms of the ability of Israel to keep the Jewish state Jewish, and not to have a Palestinian minority that could have the opportunity to become a majority at some time in the future. If this takes place, it would force Israel to either become a secular democratic or bi-national state, or to turn into a state of apartheid not only de facto, but also de jure.
www.bintjbeil.com...

There you have it, Nelson Mandela uses diplomatic language to call Israel an apartheid state 'de jure' (of today).

Who are we to believe? Nelson Mandela or someone that uses a wanted Israeli war criminal as an avatar?

Here is a video of a high level South African delegation meeting the Hamas government;

Well now.

As I see it, at the moment Israel is nowhere like apartheid was in South Africa.

Yes, I say was, since I saw another poster that seems to think it is still active in SA.

Is there any "Israeli's only" shops, seperate lines at shops for the different races, does non Israeli's have to carry a "pass book" at all times otherwise they get locked up, is there areas disignated only for non Israelis, the list goes on and on.

At the moment, the answer is no. However, it is quite possible that Israel might fall into that mindset, and indeed that Apartheid might be born there. I doubt however if it will ever get to the levels that it were like in SA back in the day.

vvv

reply to post by dontreally

"The Case against Israel's Enemies"

That quote should of been "The Case against Israel." Is that the real enemy?....Yes.

This is what i'm feeling about this mess, and it is a mess for both sides. This ain't gonna go away, might as well just have the war and get it out of everyone's systems for a while. It's like a dog that gets it's first taste of blood, once it gets first blood its ruined.

This Jimmy Carter fellow comes across as an evil, hate filled, hate-mongering, anti-semite.

Somebody please buy this hateful monster a heart, so he can start loving the state of Israel.

reply to post by VreemdeVlieendeVoorwep

Is there any "Israeli's only" shops, seperate lines at shops for the different races, does non Israeli's have to carry a "pass book" at all times otherwise they get locked up, is there areas disignated only for non Israelis, the list goes on and on.

Yes there are Israeli Jew only shops, roads, Palestinian have to carry pass books to go from one side of their village to the other side through Israeli military check points.

Palestinians are under Israeli military (martial law) laws as a subject and occupied people.

Palestinians have no rights over the land they have lived on for thousands of years. If a Palestinian is arrested by the occupation forces, he/she ends up in an underground prison, kept there for years until presented to a military drumhead court and given sentence, expulsion to Gaza or sent to indefinite detention for further investigation.

There are other criminal and immoral crimes perpetrated by the zionists on the Palestinians too long to list.

Zionist Israel is worse than the dark days of Apartheid South Africa.

All hail Israel, for they can do no wrong!

Israel, they are the masters of our destiny!

/sarcasm

reply to post by Ilovecatbinlady


War is hell. It makes it difficult to go for pizza.

I don't think the land swap is a viable option. To give them land in South Israel, maybe that borders Egypt in return for the West Bank or Gaza.

For one thing the land is useless. And second they would be still there penniless as the rest of the Middle Eastern countries improve economically.
In a buy out situation, they can move and be welcomed by many countries in the region, with 20,000 per man woman and child.
Or they can stay and spend half on buying back their home site, and spend half on a new house or business or farm or pool their money to build apartments but they wouldn't be a burden on the state.

They have a city there that has no septic systems. They are desperately short of water, so there is very little agriculture. They have no options to irrigate, no one will give them the kind of money they need and I know I worked on this for 20 years.
The Arab nations have had every opportunity and I asked them to contribute over and over again, and they built a few small government like buildings.
Thats all.
So they are on their own that way. And they are not welcome in other Arab countries as refugees, or as broke individuals. Everyone has their own social problems as it is.

So many Palestinians have become citizens haven't they? There are lots of Arab people who are citizens of Israel and work and live and call it home.
The two people's have lived together all their lives since the state of Israel was formed.
So they take the buy out for 20,000 each person, and they are given citizenship, or they have to move elsewhere with their 20,000.
If they agree to stay, then they can use half of that money in a land swap. They can get a piece of the West Bank to live on. It buys a parcel of land from the land use plan. Agricultural probably.

So now then once the deals are all done, they can turn around and sell that land to any Israeli citizen and the land value will have gone up. Or stay and prosper in a country with a GDP per person of 30,000 as opposed to the GDP of Syria, which is 3,000. At present.
So then Israel can irrigate the West Bank have agricultural land and get IMF funding for development.

So what the International community's plan is, is to raise the GDP per capita of those countries like Syria and Egypt and Iraq to at least the level of Iran and Lebanon.

We will not invest where there is this land dispute.

For one thing part of the plan is to build a 5 billion dollar trade center, near agricultural land so they can market their goods world-wide.
But the land has to be donated. Since its the UN/IMF/G20 we don't want to haggle over land. It will be like land donated to the world trade organization. Its for everyone's use. All member countries which is 188 countries.
To facilitate trade, improve shipping methods and to create economic development and fix global banking.

Its a large scale 500 billion dollar plan.
90 hubs world wide. So does Israel not want to be in on that trade organization? Do the Palestinians want to hold on to this silly notion of nationalism and not be able to afford health care or proper food or give their children a chance at a better life? Thats nonsense.

This is what we are dealing with today.
en.wikipedia.org...

And that is what we are in the process of changing.

We will construct an isolated trade network and do things properly. And if we have to do it solely as the SCO by God we will do it.

Read their mission statements and read the WTO mission statements.
World Trade Organization

The SCO

I have traded with America and with China, I do most certainly know, which way the wind shines.

reply to post by Rocketman7


Sorry bud but it is not up to you to suggest what Palestinian ought to do. They want their homes and land back and I agree that they should get them.

The zionists and their descendents can bugger off whence they came or apply for Palestinian citizenship and hope to God they are treated better than they have treated the Palestinians.

Good Ole' Jimmy is full blown racist.

His latest show of racism is jumping to this fat, mean, racist T.V. chef's defense.