Why are Americans prodominantly against Obamacare?

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posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 12:44 PM
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Originally posted by michael1983l
Why would any civilized person complain about making primary healthcare available to all instead of just those that have the cash to pay for it?

How can a population of a developed nation like the USA complain about paying extra taxes for this when their current government invests more money in war than all other nations combines accross the globe?

Just saying.


I’m not sure if you realize this, but you asked two different questions. In the thread title, you ask, “Why are Americans predominantly against Obamacare?” The question in your post is, “Why would any civilized person complain about making primary healthcare available to all instead of just those that have the cash to pay for it?”

Let me see if I can clear that up for you.

Obamacare has absolutely, positively, nothing to do with providing anyone health care. It’s about forcing people to buy health insurance. Obamacare has as much to do with health care as the Patriot Act has to do with patriotism.

Consider this, now tens of millions of people will be forced to buy insurance. Well they’re going to get their money’s worth, I know I will. Suddenly, doctors and hospitals will have tens of millions of new patients. But somehow the existing health care professionals can accommodate the influx of tens of millions of new patients without rationing, right? We’ve gotten a lot of promises about this “Health Care Reform” legislation, but then we got a lot of promises when Congress was discussing Federal Income Tax, Social Security, and the Federal Reserve. Promises that were broken, and no way to hold the liars accountable, and no way to undo the damage done.

Anyone who has had to sit in the emergency room for 4 hrs. because there is only one or two doctors working the emergency room knows that there is a big difference between having health insurance and getting health care. How many doctors will Obamacare generate? How many nurses? How many hospitals or clinics will be constructed as a result of Obamacare? The answer to all three is, of course, none. One thing Obamacare will generate is tens of millions of people with the attitude, "Well, I have to pay for this insurance, I might as well get my money's worth." You think emergency rooms are bad now? Wait till you're sitting in one while they have to go through somebody with a hangnail, somebody with the flu, somebody with a scraped knee, a hypocondriate, and somebody faking stomach pain in order to get a prescription for pain pills.

But let's talk about some of the selling points of Obamacare.

You can't be denied coverage, right? Well, technically, insurance companies didn't HAVE to deny anyone coverage before. They could insure anyone, all they had to do is make the premiums so high that they still make a profit. Or, they could just charge other customers more to make up the difference.

One thing you need to realize about insurance companies; they are run just like casinos. They figure the odds, they figure a profit margin, and they set the premiums (bets) accordingly. And just like casinos, they always profit in the long run. Just like casinos, they have their own private security, they have the full cooperation of law enforcement, and even have special law enforcement dedicated just to their industry. Now, they also have the muscle of the IRS behind them. When you deal with them, you are on your own.

With that in mind, you realize that, just like casinos, only the number of customers limits insurance company profits. There is nothing in Obamacare that I've seen that limits what an insurance company can charge anyone in premiums. I do recall something about a penalty if they refused to insure someone. I think it was $100 a day. So, theoretically, an insurance company could just figure it's cheaper to pay the penalty until you die, which would be faster since they denied you coverage. All perfectly legal. Remeber, this legislation was written by insurance companies and lawyers, you know they have their loopholes.

Well, another selling point, insurance rates will be more affordable, right? Really? Why? Does the legislation require insurance companies to cut their profits? Not that I'm aware. They might lower their profits for a while, just to make this law a little easier to swallow, but they'll go right back up. Insurance companies will no longer have to compete for customers like casinos, you have to buy it, they will tell you how much to pay.

OK, but under Obamacare, the Government helps people who can't afford insurance to have it. That's a good thing, right? Well, yeah, that does sound pretty good. But let's follow the money on that. You pay taxes, they government takes that tax money and gives it to insurance companies. Once again, the insurance companies profit.

Are we beginning to notice a trend here?

cont.




posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 12:44 PM
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Its pretty simple.

Government needs to stay out of peoples lives and stop taxing.
You earn a dollar which isnt worth anything today, and by the time the gov finishes taxing you its thirty cents.This whole thing has nothing to do with health care, it has to do with the government giving free stuff away, so it can get votes and stealing more from the general population to give away.

Now, there will be 30 million new people that have to get insurance, 30 million people that cant pay for insurance or could not get it because of a condition. This will cost...MONEY. And who has to pay for it with out choice? We do. This is only good for certain people:

- The insurance companies: They get to raise prices to cover the cost of 30 million new clients
- The government: They get to raise taxes to take money for us, and pay for people that cant

This increases debt, and creates a society where people depend on government, it craps on the countries future, if you need proof just look at Greece. The more freebies the government steals VIA taxes from hard working people and gives to the not hard working, the more society becomes dependent.

It is not about health, its about..SURPRISE: Money and Power... It shows how stupid we have become when people say..."Hey this is great!, I dont mind giving my money to people?"... or really ? If you really give a sh1t about everyone else, then you are free to give every last penny you make to anyone you choose, but damn it dont fkn steal my money and give it to someone that I do not give a crap about. We all have to feed ourselves and families FIRST!

Is THAT simple enough?
edit on 29-6-2012 by R3KR because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 12:44 PM
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Bottom line, Obamacare doesn’t give anyone health care. What it does is insure that for every man, woman, and child in the United States over the age of 3, insurance companies collect money. And all the insurance companies had to do was bribe a few congressmen and a Supreme Court judge. Over the next few years, the insurance companies will reap trillions of dollars in profits for their investment. That’s money they are siphoning away from the actual health care industry, and lining their own pockets. Thanks to Ann Dunham’s bastard son and the traitor John Roberts, Americans are now slaves to both the Federal Reserve and the insurance industry.

I wonder how long it will be before Walmart buys enough congressmen to pass a law forcing people to shop there.



posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 12:46 PM
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Seems like another attempt at race baiting.

No one wanted this rammed down our throats.

The truth is .. the delusional left think they are the majority and rammed it through.

This is the problem with the perception that we are a democratic nation .. when in fact we are a republic.



posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 12:50 PM
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reply to post by getreadyalready
 


I agree with a lot of what you have to say.

Although, the major problem is your plan doesn't address the millions of Americans who don't have access to healthcare for financial reasons.

Healthcare is a basic human right, and especially so in a country such as the US where we can afford to provide health services to all citizens. Simply lowering the cost isn't good enough, it's important to provide adequate health care to anyone in their time of need, even a homeless person without a penny to their name.

This is why most countries have universal healthcare systems. They realize that a healthy population benefits everyone.



posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 12:52 PM
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reply to post by drwizardphd
 



Although, the major problem is your plan doesn't address the millions of Americans who don't have access to healthcare for financial reasons.


I believe it does, because the reason for the outrageous cost is the insurance involvement and the liability and overhead the practitioners deal with. Remove the liability, frivolous lawsuits, and remove the secret contract pricing, and remove the fraud that happens in direct billing, and we would be left with a system where prices were set by market conditions and the prices would come back to what an average person could afford again.



posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 12:56 PM
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reply to post by drwizardphd
 


The problem is that certain forces in the US have conspired to turn this issue into a tax issue. If they can successfully frame it that way, it will push the cattle towards the R column on Election Day.

It really doesn't matter. It seems to be lost on most people that "Obamacare" is (supposedly) similar to "Romneycare" (which Romney implemented while Mass governor). Whether or not there's truth to this is a good question. But, if I am correct, then people need to do their research before they come out for or against something, rather than relying solely on media talking points.

As we've seen at ATS, people are easily manipulated by the MSM, hence the faux outrage over the USSC's ruling on "Obamacare".



posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 12:57 PM
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reply to post by getreadyalready
 


Right, the 'average person' could afford it. And that would be a huge step in the right direction.

But we still need to cover the below average people who still couldn't afford it. That's why free-market healthcare doesn't work. That's why capitalism and healthcare don't mix well.

I know there's charity, and people hate the idea of the government using their tax dollars to help people. However, it is my opinion (and most of the free world's opinion), that health care should never be provided or denied based on the financial situation of the recipient.



posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 12:59 PM
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reply to post by drwizardphd
 


Even now healthcare is never denied for economic reasons. Every doctor and every hospital is required to provide life-saving services. Admittedly there is some difference in the quality of care provided. There is basic vs. cadillac care, but nobody in the US is denied healthcare.

We also already have a Medicaid system, and there is already a tax, and a fund we all pay into. The people who fall below the poverty line already get free healthcare, there is no need for a new system and a new tax.



posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 01:06 PM
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reply to post by getreadyalready
 


Sounds fair to me.

I'm all for clearing the air when it comes to dealing with insurance companies. There's no fun in having to call and haggle over the phone on a claim.

I think that medical bills should not be tied to credit ratings, especially when your insurance refuses to cover certain things based on their own B.S policies. This is why I do not recognize the bills that these agencies send nor will I be paying them anytime soon.

I am not rich either, just barely middle class, if just under $30k a year counts?



posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 01:08 PM
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reply to post by getreadyalready
 


Bingo! Obama should have focused his efforts on weeding out the billions $ in waste and fraud from within our existing system rather than his attempt to reinvent the wheel as he see's it. Now the nation will be running on square wheels.

This should have been a step by step process from the very start to fix what needs to be fixed.


AS to the OP.. Most Americans are opposed to the Mandate and the intrusion of the Govt. into every aspect of their lives. Obamacare will certainly serve as the unlubed anal probe on the nation. We are expected to just bend over and take a deep breath. The push back will be severe in the polling booths.



posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 01:09 PM
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In my opinion, in and of itself the concept is good.
It is the execution of it and cramming it down our throats is what has people upset.

Just like a one world government, it only depends on who benefits from it.



posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 01:12 PM
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Its politics, you have to attack the other side with SOMETHING. And I dont think its true that Americans prEdominantly oppose Obamacare.



posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 01:34 PM
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Originally posted by The Sword
reply to post by getreadyalready
 


What do you suggest then?

Everyone complains about Obamacare but NO ONE that I've seen on here has proposed anything better.



Thats funny because I did. They need to do some fixing of the FDA because they are half the reason drugs cost so much. They need to regulate all of the frivolous lawsuits that have jacked up the price of everything and then start putting some regulations in place as to what doctors can charge for things. Start there and get costs down and then we can move on to the rest.



posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 01:43 PM
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reply to post by LeoStarchild
 


Sounds like yet another person that needs to do their homework.

Shame on you, people.

It's almost as if you were ready to start this #storm. All you needed was a master to flip the switch.



posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 01:46 PM
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Originally posted by drwizardphd
reply to post by getreadyalready
 


I agree with a lot of what you have to say.

Although, the major problem is your plan doesn't address the millions of Americans who don't have access to healthcare for financial reasons.

Healthcare is a basic human right, and especially so in a country such as the US where we can afford to provide health services to all citizens. Simply lowering the cost isn't good enough, it's important to provide adequate health care to anyone in their time of need, even a homeless person without a penny to their name.

This is why most countries have universal healthcare systems. They realize that a healthy population benefits everyone.


Who doesnt have access to it? I am uninsured right now and I know full well I can walk into my doctor and get treated or walk into a minor emergency place and get treated. Yes the bill wont be cheap but I bet its cheaper than paying insurance all year that I may or may not use.

Look up the numbers on those uninsured that they keep preaching about. Many of them are on other programs and "Chose" not to have insurance. Many of them are just temporarily out of work and once back to work will have insurance. Some "Chose" to not have healthcare because for one reason or another they just dont want it whether they are rich and pay out of pocket or just dont go to the doctor often enough to justify the cost to themselves. The number of people who would like to have health insurance and cant get it is a lot smaller than you have been led to believe.



posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 02:01 PM
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reply to post by The Sword
 


Nahh Im just saying. There is a perception that the 'American People' wanted this. There is a right and wrong way to go about this. I have done my homework and its clear this is "unconstitutional" but still was given the okay!

The constitution has been usurped and someone has to be held responsible.



posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 02:54 PM
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Originally posted by The Sword
Sounds like yet another person that needs to do their homework.

Shame on you, people.

It's almost as if you were ready to start this #storm. All you needed was a master to flip the switch.


Sword,
This is really becoming tiresome. Yes, there are people in this country who have views that don't fall in line with your personal worldview. No, they aren't all uninformed, manipulated cattle.

Just relax, take a deep breath and acknowledge that others still have the right to believe, and obey their own conscience. You aren't going to agree with everything everybody has to say. Get over it.



posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 03:12 PM
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reply to post by Dreine
 


In the UK everyone who works also has to have insurance, it is just taken from your wages at source and Labled "National Insurance". Taxed at 6% of your salary I think.



posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 03:37 PM
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Originally posted by michael1983l
reply to post by Dreine
 


In the UK everyone who works also has to have insurance, it is just taken from your wages at source and Labled "National Insurance". Taxed at 6% of your salary I think.


In that system, money goes from the taxpayer, to the government, to the health care industry. Not a bad system. In the US, the money goes from the patients, to the insurance industry, who siphon of as much as they can while paying the health care industry as little as they can get away with. Essentially, the insurance companies are parasites on the health care industry. Obamacare will simply increase their profits even more.





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