Why are Americans prodominantly against Obamacare?

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Originally posted by macman
There is no Utopia. Society should not try to rule everyone, for the sake of a few. Again, collective/hivementality.

It suprises me how some long time military member, which is all about duty and honor, can THEN turn around and say exactly what I quoted you as saying. Are you selective in 'duty and honor' as long as you know you are representing the bottom line of corporations and the hell with ordinary citizens? It sure seems so and it is horrible logic.

Common sense and discipline go a long way. Nevermind you probably never finished west point or annapolis, and I am talking to some low ranked corporal with a dishonorable discharge.

edit on 10/7/12 by EarthCitizen07 because: (no reason given)

Since you think this is important: I'm a graduate of the United States Naval Academy in Annapolis and I think his points are quite valid. His upporting a free market economy and individual liberty is indeed consistent with duty and honor to his fellow citizen and in keeping with his oath to the Constitution.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Originally posted by NavyDoc

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
They make fun of people who do not have jobs, constantly mocking them into the ground and abusing them, pretending to be totally oblivious of the actual causes. They pretend to have no idea what global free trade is/was, what tariffs are, the extent of banks and wall street extortion against the non-wealthy.

It is a lost cause in america. What really suprises me is that some people have no morals, no decency, no common sense, nothing. They are totally in it for THEMSELVES which exemplifies selfishness and borders with evil. The higher up you go the more this superiority complex reigns supreme.

Who is more selfish? Someone who wants to keep what they earn to take care of themselves and their family or someone who wants to take what they did not earn from someone else to take care of a family they will not take care of themselves?

Those "evil wealthy" are some of the most generous people out there and America leads the world in individual charitible giving. There is a radical difference between individual charity and forced charity. Conservatives laud the former and hate the latter.

I believe your sarcasm fell on deaf ears. I am well aware of trust funds, shell companies, tax haven nations, make-believe tax deductions, hedge funds, digging in your backyard and filling bags with $100 bills, using freeman on the land logic, etc. I could not care less if the highest bracket is 39% WHEN there are more loopholes in the tax code than prime grade swiss cheese.

Wealthy people are no saints. Just because they donate money to build libraries, to research cures for diseases, to build sport faciliites, or whatever other donations they make it is peanuts compared to the billions they keep locked up in secure accounts. You must be ignorant or gullible(probably both) to not see how they use donations as smoke screens for tax evasion and sympathy. I heard the masons are charitable as well, does that mean they are good little boys?

And by the same tolken, wealthy people are not evil by the very nature of being wealthy. In addition, they do not sit on piles of money like Scrooge McDuck--you don't become wealthy or stay wealthy for long doing that. They invest that money in hopes of either growing it or living off the dividends. That infuses wealth into the economy.

You are right that our leftist, progressive income tax system that penalizes success inspires people to seek out ways to protect their assets and politicians to create exemptions and loopholes to buy votes. This is why a flat tax that everyone pays on income with no exeptions or a national sales tax are much fairer and streamlined options than the system we have now.

So is it possible for you to have a discussion with someone without resorting to insults? Just curious.

Originally posted by NavyDoc
They invest that money in hopes of either growing it or living off the dividends. That infuses wealth into the economy.

My economics teacher and I want to know how that works.

Originally posted by habitforming

Originally posted by NavyDoc
They invest that money in hopes of either growing it or living off the dividends. That infuses wealth into the economy.

My economics teacher and I want to know how that works.

Sounds like he needs a little Adam Smith. When a wealthy person buys a yacht, or a second house, or a nice meal, that money supports homebuilders, architects, waiters, chefs, etc and goes into the economy.

When a wealthy person invests in the market, in hopes of increasing his wealth, that money is used as venture capital, used by companies to expand, to purchase raw materiels, to advertise, and so forth, and goes into the economy.

Your econ teacher understands how the market works, I hope.

How many wealthy people does your econ teacher know who sit on a pile of cash like Scrooge McDuck and neither spend nor invest it nor even earn a little interest on it? Even a deposit into a simple savings account goes out there in the economy in the form of loans. Where does your econ prof think simple interest comes from?

Originally posted by NavyDoc

And by the same tolken, wealthy people are not evil by the very nature of being wealthy. In addition, they do not sit on piles of money like Scrooge McDuck--you don't become wealthy or stay wealthy for long doing that. They invest that money in hopes of either growing it or living off the dividends. That infuses wealth into the economy.

You are right that our leftist, progressive income tax system that penalizes success inspires people to seek out ways to protect their assets and politicians to create exemptions and loopholes to buy votes. This is why a flat tax that everyone pays on income with no exeptions or a national sales tax are much fairer and streamlined options than the system we have now.

So is it possible for you to have a discussion with someone without resorting to insults? Just curious.

Capitlism is a system based on greed. Greed grows the economy but not enough money is laundered/recirculated to allow the government to function properly, creating shortages in the supply of money and when combined with continous overspending, that leads to more borrrowing which again helps the wealthy make interest.

Who says you have to be successful? Who says the economy must grow? Who says capitalism is the only way?

And if we are going to have capitalism redistribution of wealth is necessary. Yes there are many Scrooge McDucks in the world.

Originally posted by NavyDoc

Sounds like he needs a little Adam Smith. When a wealthy person buys a yacht, or a second house, or a nice meal, that money supports homebuilders, architects, waiters, chefs, etc and goes into the economy.

They can buy as many yachts as they want provided they pay the progressive income tax first. If I was a dictator they would pay 50% of their annual income so that the poor and middle class pay very little.

When a wealthy person invests in the market, in hopes of increasing his wealth, that money is used as venture capital, used by companies to expand, to purchase raw materiels, to advertise, and so forth, and goes into the economy.

Your econ teacher understands how the market works, I hope.

How many wealthy people does your econ teacher know who sit on a pile of cash like Scrooge McDuck and neither spend nor invest it nor even earn a little interest on it? Even a deposit into a simple savings account goes out there in the economy in the form of loans. Where does your econ prof think simple interest comes from?

Do economics professors teach mixed economies or state planned economies? Is this why todays graduates are TOTAL MORONS when it comes to politics and economics? Serious question! A professor of economics should know about ALL SYSTEMS if they want to consider themselves experts, not just american capitalism.



There you go. See I am SHARING my knowledge with you!

1.Rush Limbaugh
2.Alex Jones
3.Fox "News"
4.Michael Savage
5.Matt Drudge

reply to post by sealing


Don't need any of them to tell people just how horrible it is. People are figuring it out for themselves.

"The few who understand the system, will either be so interested from it's profits or so dependant on it's favors, that there will be no opposition from that class." — Rothschild Brothers of London, 1863

"From now on, depressions will be scientifically created." — Congressman Charles A.
Lindbergh Sr. , 1913

"We are completely dependant on the commercial banks. Someone has to borrow every dollar
we have in circulation, cash or credit. If the banks create ample synthetic money we are prosperous; if not, we starve. We are absolutely without a permanent money system.... It is the most important subject intelligent persons can investigate and reflect upon. It is so important that our present civilization may collapse unless it becomes widely understood and the defects remedied very soon." — Robert H. Hamphill, Atlanta Federal Reserve Bank

"To expose a 15 Trillion dollar rip-off of the American people by the stockholders of the 1000
largest corporations over the last 100 years will be a tall order of business." — Buckminster Fuller

"Capital must protect itself in every way...Debts must be collected and loans and mortgages
foreclosed as soon as possible. When through a process of law the common people have lost their
homes, they will be more tractable and more easily governed by the strong arm of the law applied
by the central power of leading financiers. People without homes will not quarrel with their leaders. This is well known among our principal men now engaged in forming an imperialism of capitalism to govern the world. By dividing the people we can get them to expend their energies in fighting over questions of no importance to us except as teachers of the common herd."-- Taken from the Civil Servants' Year Book, "The Organizer" January 1934.

I guess a million quotes written by key people of the conspiracy would not help people hellbent on giving capitalism a free ride while demonising all forms of socialism. Give it a rest already!

The Money Power! It is the greatest power on earth; and it is arrayed against Labour. No other power that is or ever was can be named with it... it attacks us through the Press - a monster with a thousand lying tongues, a beast surpassing in foulness any conceived by the mythology that invented dragons, were wolves, harpies, ghouls and vampires. It thunders against us from innumerable platforms and ,Yes, so far as we are concerned, the headquarters of the Money Power is Britain. But the Money Power is not a British institution; it is cosmopolitan. It is of no nationality, but of all nationalities. It dominates the world. The Money Power has corrupted the faculties of the human soul, and tampered with the sanity of the human intellect... Editorial from 1907 edition of The Brisbane Worker (Australia)


...I am convinced that the agreement [Bretton Woods] will enthrone a world dictatorship of private finance more complete and terrible than and Hitlerite dream. It offers no solution of world problems, but quite blatantly sets up controls which will reduce the smaller nations to vassal states and make every government the mouthpiece and tool of International Finance. It will undermine and destroy the democratic institutions of this country - in fact as effectively as ever the Fascist forces could have done - pervert and paganise our Christian ideals; and will undoubtedly present a new menace, endangering world peace. World collaboration of private financial interests can only mean mass unemployment, slavery, misery, degradation and financial destruction. Therefore, as freedom loving Australians we should reject this infamous proposal. -- Labor Minister of Australia, Eddie Ward, during the inception of the World Bank and Bretton Woods, he gave this warning.