Why are Americans prodominantly against Obamacare?

Originally posted by macman
reply to post by habitforming

 

Stats and proof that people are turned away, please.

I have posted this crap 4 #ing times already.

The world you want, is basically not to pay for services rendered. Or have others pay for it.
Sorry, but no. That is theft and no personal responsibility.

BULL#!!!!

That is the world we already have and people like you are fighting to keep it that way.
I pay 50 bucks an aspirin at the hospital because they have to cover the cost of treating freeloaders who refuse to buy insurance.
I am sick of paying for them.

Originally posted by Zanti Misfit
reply to post by habitforming

 

Where is Your Humanity ? We are ALL in the Same Boat here on Planet Earth . It Should be Our Moral Duty as Citizens to Help one another in Times of Trouble until........................................................................................................................................Obamacare does Not Promote Selfsufficiency , it Promotes a Constant Dependency on Others

Get back to me when you know which thought you want to go with here.

Originally posted by habitforming


I have posted this crap 4 #ing times already.

Please provide it again. Where are the reports, not from blogs and such, or anecdotal in nature that people are turned away?

Originally posted by habitforming

BULL#!!!!

Wow, more emotional responses. Thought such language was against the rules here?

Originally posted by habitforming
That is the world we already have and people like you are fighting to keep it that way.

Not really, seeing that my money is taxed, and given to others for Medicare (Failing and a nightmare to navigate), Medicaid (Failing and a nightmare to navigate), SS (Failing and a nightmare to navigate), SCHIP (Failing and a nightmare to navigate), Prescription Drug Reimbursement (Failing and a nightmare to navigate) and any other Govt run program.
Wasted money.

Originally posted by habitforming
I pay 50 bucks an aspirin at the hospital because they have to cover the cost of treating freeloaders who refuse to buy insurance.
I am sick of paying for them.

And now you have the immature idea that the Govt can solve that. EPIC FAIL.
Maybe look to the people that are the free loaders, and start making THEM pay for those things.
Instead, the Govt rushes in and makes blanket laws that force EVERYONE to pay, as opposed to the ones free loading.
Another epic fail.

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by DZAG Wright

If you aim low, you hit low. You and others seem content to aim low...even relish it. That's what I want to put on blast. It's all a matter of what you call freedom. Do you consider it "freedom" when you have to work or starve now? I don't.

Oh give me a brake.
How can I aim low, when I am successful in life?
And yes, Freedom is a double edged sword. I want the Freedom to succeed or fail on my own. Because when I do either, the fruits or spoils are mine, not for others.
That is too bad that you not only don't believe in yourself, but you have this adolescent fear that others need the Govt to help, because they are seen as not able to provide for themselves. What a great way to handicap people. Force them to accept help from a corrupt Govt.

Haven't you silly Liberals learned, that anything the Govt has the "power" to give you, has the "power" to take away?

And what about just blindly handing over control to the Govt? I thought you were of the mindset that the Govt was corrupt? Wars, greed, scandal and so on. Yet, you are fine with having them be more and more intrusive of our personal lives, and to "provide" for you. Which is it? Is the Govt corrupt or is it perfect with no flaws?

And spare me the whole Rep vs. Dem. Both sides are just as bad as the other.

edit on 6-7-2012 by macman because: (no reason given)

You can't see the trees because you're looking at the forest....

What does YOU being successful have to do with society being successful? The epitome of selfishness I guess?

When I say "aim low" I'm referring to us as a society. Instead of trying to make things better, we let people feed us the EXCUSES of, "Well Utopia isn't possible so we may as well wallow in our greed."

You still have a dinosaur mind because you can't see that this society can be to the point where it would be HARD to fail, if we got rid of the psycho's and dinosaurs who hoarde the resources and sell the lies that things are scarce.

LOL...you're so primitive and childish

I want the Freedom to succeed or fail on my own. Because when I do either, the fruits or spoils are mine, not for others.

....I don't even know what to say! By the way that is primitive!

Here we are at a website where we talk of advanced civilizations and aliens....and then we have people such as yourself who are contradictions to wanting to advance. Do you believe aliens could make it to our planet if they had the mentality of you? Ummm NO...they would be stuck on their rock because no alien would want to do more than another for fear of being.......I guess.......mooched from......LOL!

Do you believe the "govt" is a living breathing entity? My dear lad.........................WE ARE THE GOVERNMENT!!! Yeah, we've allowed some anti-govt people to capture seats in our govt and they do everything they can to muck it up, but that's our fault. We should get them out and place people there who aren't power hungry and who believe in organization or in other words GOVERNMENT.

You and others speak of govt as if it's a automatic enemy....it's US lad. We just need to get people who wish to see it fail out of there. And who may I ask in our government wish to see it fail? Answer that and then ask yourself why you support them.

Why would you have someone build you a house, who doesn't believe people should live in houses? That houses should be small as possible? See what I'm doing here? And yet people like you insist upon hiring these people to build you houses......LOL.........and then wonder why your houses look like crap..........UNBELIEVABLE!!!!

So yeah the govt is corrupt but only because people like you allow psycho's to convince you that you should vote people INTO governemnt who don't BELIEVE in government! How silly and crazy is that?

If these words penetrated your fog, how silly do you now feel? Swallow some pride and think about that?

Originally posted by macman
And now you have the immature idea that the Govt can solve that. EPIC FAIL.
Maybe look to the people that are the free loaders, and start making THEM pay for those things.
Instead, the Govt rushes in and makes blanket laws that force EVERYONE to pay, as opposed to the ones free loading.
Another epic fail.

Um, I am referring to ACA. I have no clue what you think you are talking about so you need to let me know so we can get on the same page. What you just said should be happening is exactly what you are also fighting to stop from happening.

How is logic this twisted for you?
Nothing in ACA makes everyone pay, just the freeloaders.

Originally posted by DZAG Wright
You can't see the trees because you're looking at the forest....

Spare me the arm chair therapy session.,

Originally posted by DZAG Wright
What does YOU being successful have to do with society being successful? The epitome of selfishness I guess?

Because it is not my responsibility to carry society. Nor is it the responsibility for society to carry me.
The difference is between us is you want the collective to run the show, I want the individual to run their life.
Funny, as every Liberal thinks this is selfish, yet have no idea as to what I personally do for my fellow man. I will bet money My family and I do more to help others then you.

Originally posted by DZAG Wright
When I say "aim low" I'm referring to us as a society. Instead of trying to make things better, we let people feed us the EXCUSES of, "Well Utopia isn't possible so we may as well wallow in our greed."

There is no Utopia. Society should not try to rule everyone, for the sake of a few. Again, collective/hive mentality.

Originally posted by DZAG Wright
You still have a dinosaur mind because you can't see that this society can be to the point where it would be HARD to fail, if we got rid of the psycho's and dinosaurs who hoarde the resources and sell the lies that things are scarce.

really? The whole finite resources and wealth argument? You are not forced to purchase those things, except now Health Insurance, which you must buy now.

Originally posted by DZAG Wright
LOL...you're so primitive and childish

Coming from you???? Sure sure.

Originally posted by DZAG Wright
....I don't even know what to say! By the way that is primitive!

Ok there Progressive. Good hell. Let me cry a river.

Originally posted by DZAG Wright
Here we are at a website where we talk of advanced civilizations and aliens....and then we have people such as yourself who are contradictions to wanting to advance. Do you believe aliens could make it to our planet if they had the mentality of you? Ummm NO...they would be stuck on their rock because no alien would want to do more than another for fear of being.......I guess.......mooched from......LOL!

Now you are off into Aliens? Oh boy.

Originally posted by DZAG Wright
Do you believe the "govt" is a living breathing entity? My dear lad.........................WE ARE THE GOVERNMENT!!! Yeah, we've allowed some anti-govt people to capture seats in our govt and they do everything they can to muck it up, but that's our fault. We should get them out and place people there who aren't power hungry and who believe in organization or in other words GOVERNMENT.

Dear Lad??? Ok then.
The Govt is a representative of the People, and it is bound by certain documents. Yet, those in power now seem to have no issue in circumventing those laws and rules.

Originally posted by DZAG Wright
You and others speak of govt as if it's a automatic enemy....it's US lad. We just need to get people who wish to see it fail out of there. And who may I ask in our government wish to see it fail? Answer that and then ask yourself why you support them.

What is with this Lad crap? You really think you have the upper hand to talk down to someone, don't you?
I want the Govt to return to ho wit is supposed to operate, and stop the overreaching of powers.

Originally posted by DZAG Wright
Why would you have someone build you a house, who doesn't believe people should live in houses? That houses should be small as possible? See what I'm doing here? And yet people like you insist upon hiring these people to build you houses......LOL.........and then wonder why your houses look like crap..........UNBELIEVABLE!!!!

What are you talking about? Now you are just yammering to yammer. What house? What builder?

Originally posted by DZAG Wright
So yeah the govt is corrupt but only because people like you allow psycho's to convince you that you should vote people INTO governemnt who don't BELIEVE in government! How silly and crazy is that?

I didn't vote for 0bama, don't blame me for this Psycho in office.

Originally posted by DZAG Wright
If these words penetrated your fog, how silly do you now feel? Swallow some pride and think about that?

Not really. You really think pretty highly of yourself, don't you?

Originally posted by habitforming

Um, I am referring to ACA. I have no clue what you think you are talking about so you need to let me know so we can get on the same page. What you just said should be happening is exactly what you are also fighting to stop from happening.

How is logic this twisted for you?
Nothing in ACA makes everyone pay, just the freeloaders.

Um, you either have to have Health Insurance, or Purchase Health Insurance.
I don't care how is being forced to pay, the fact is that they are being forced to buy something they don't want. That is the issue.

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by habitforming

Um, I am referring to ACA. I have no clue what you think you are talking about so you need to let me know so we can get on the same page. What you just said should be happening is exactly what you are also fighting to stop from happening.

How is logic this twisted for you?
Nothing in ACA makes everyone pay, just the freeloaders.

Um, you either have to have Health Insurance, or Purchase Health Insurance.
I don't care how is being forced to pay, the fact is that they are being forced to buy something they don't want. That is the issue.

Not if you cannot afford insurance it does not. Why are you shifting? What was supposed to be the point of your last post again? I thought you were trying to go somewhere with that, not take my post and shift more from there.

Originally posted by habitforming
Not if you cannot afford insurance it does not.

SO, then taxes will be raised, to offset those that can't afford it. Thought that for those that can't afford it, were covered by already in place programs. Need I list them?

Originally posted by habitforming
Why are you shifting? What was supposed to be the point of your last post again? I thought you were trying to go somewhere with that, not take my post and shift more from there.

Who is shifting? I know that you enjoy yourself some 0bama and Progressive ideas, but come on man.

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by habitforming
Not if you cannot afford insurance it does not.

SO, then taxes will be raised, to offset those that can't afford it.

What taxes are going to be raised on who.
I want facts, not your imagination.

Thought that for those that can't afford it, were covered by already in place programs. Need I list them?

Go for it. Not sure what it proves.

Originally posted by habitforming
Who is shifting? I know that you enjoy yourself some 0bama and Progressive ideas, but come on man.

At least when I post I know what the hell I wanted to say.

How come you keep getting facts about the ACA wrong?
How come every righty on ATS has either gotten it wrong or lied about it?
Why is that?

Originally posted by habitforming

What taxes are going to be raised on who.
I want facts, not your imagination.

Ok common sense has to allow you to actually figure this out. How is this plan going to run, just like every other Govt plan, without raising taxes?
I don't need a written plan from the Govt stating they will. Even the CBO has stated the program is over what the projected amount was. The money has to come from somewhere.
Oh yeah, don't forget about the tax people will HAVE to pay, if they don't purchase health insurance.
So, I guess, in Semantics Land, you are right. Taxes not raised, just a new tax created.

Originally posted by habitforming

Go for it. Not sure what it proves.

Any Govt program has gone over budget, and has not delivered on the long term promises. Don't really need to list all of them. Start with SS, Medicare, Medicaid and so on.

Originally posted by habitforming

At least when I post I know what the hell I wanted to say.

How come you keep getting facts about the ACA wrong?
How come every righty on ATS has either gotten it wrong or lied about it?
Why is that?

edit on 10-7-2012 by habitforming because: (no reason given)

What facts are wrong?
It is a tax.
It is making people purchase something they don't want.
The CBO has stated the Projected cost is far larger then what was proposed.
Greater debt.
More Govt control of everyday life.
Adds to the already cumbersome and ridiculous Govt programs already in place.

Because those that have lots of money do not want to pay more than 10% of their annual income, and the conservative think tanks which are infinitely more wealthy than any left think tanks, PAY POSTERS TO RAIL AGAINST any form of mild socialism.

They want a free ride at the expense of the poor and middle class. I keep hearing about tax breaks for corporations and the wealthy FROM THE REPUBLICANS while we keep up the bloated military and foreign wars 5000 miles away. The hypocrisy is beyond pathetic and really sick! People hate the american government and the morons WHOM ALLOW all this to happen for decades. They have become worst than the british and french in terms of imperialism and arrogance.

They make fun of people who do not have jobs, constantly mocking them into the ground and abusing them, pretending to be totally oblivious of the actual causes. They pretend to have no idea what global free trade is/was, what tariffs are, the extent of banks and wall street extortion against the non-wealthy.

It is a lost cause in america. What really suprises me is that some people have no morals, no decency, no common sense, nothing. They are totally in it for THEMSELVES which exemplifies selfishness and borders with evil. The higher up you go the more this superiority complex reigns supreme.

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by habitforming

Um, I am referring to ACA. I have no clue what you think you are talking about so you need to let me know so we can get on the same page. What you just said should be happening is exactly what you are also fighting to stop from happening.

How is logic this twisted for you?
Nothing in ACA makes everyone pay, just the freeloaders.

Um, you either have to have Health Insurance, or Purchase Health Insurance.
I don't care how is being forced to pay, the fact is that they are being forced to buy something they don't want. That is the issue.

And that is good because a federal insurance program, which theoretically is non-profit orientated, will be much cheaper for everyone. The more people 'forced' into a program the more leverage you have against big pharma, the hospitals and medical staff. This might actually cause the prices to go down for a change rather than up and up.

When people make less because of a depressed market, the prices of medical treatment should ALSO GO DOWN.

Originally posted by macman
There is no Utopia. Society should not try to rule everyone, for the sake of a few. Again, collective/hivementality.

It suprises me how some long time military member, which is all about duty and honor, can THEN turn around and say exactly what I quoted you as saying. Are you selective in 'duty and honor' as long as you know you are representing the bottom line of corporations and the hell with ordinary citizens? It sure seems so and it is horrible logic.

Common sense and discipline go a long way. Nevermind you probably never finished west point or annapolis, and I am talking to some low ranked corporal with a dishonorable discharge.

The majority isn't actually against it...

If you call it "Obamacare", most Tea Party people and GOPers are against it. However, the second you actually ask them about the individual sections leaving the word "Obamacare" out, the majority of them actually likes what's in it.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07


It suprises me how some long time military member, which is all about duty and honor, can THEN turn around and say exactly what I quoted you as saying. Are you selective in 'duty and honor' as long as you know you are representing the bottom line of corporations and the hell with ordinary citizens? It sure seems so and it is horrible logic.

Common sense and discipline go a long way. Nevermind you probably never finished west point or annapolis, and I am talking to some low ranked corporal with a dishonorable discharge.

edit on 10/7/12 by EarthCitizen07 because: (no reason given)

Never went, nor claimed to be a graduate of West Point. I do love how highly you talk down to me.
Who ever said I was Army either? Such elitist and misinformed BS from someone that retorts in a poetic fashion.

I CHOSE to join. It was voluntary. You know, like not forced. Unlike how the Govt operates towards it Citizens now days.
I expect nothing less then mind numb drivel from someone like you.

Goes to the old saying, if I have to explain it, you will never understand.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
They make fun of people who do not have jobs, constantly mocking them into the ground and abusing them, pretending to be totally oblivious of the actual causes. They pretend to have no idea what global free trade is/was, what tariffs are, the extent of banks and wall street extortion against the non-wealthy.

It is a lost cause in america. What really suprises me is that some people have no morals, no decency, no common sense, nothing. They are totally in it for THEMSELVES which exemplifies selfishness and borders with evil. The higher up you go the more this superiority complex reigns supreme.

Who is more selfish? Someone who wants to keep what they earn to take care of themselves and their family or someone who wants to take what they did not earn from someone else to take care of a family they will not take care of themselves?

Those "evil wealthy" are some of the most generous people out there and America leads the world in individual charitible giving. There is a radical difference between individual charity and forced charity. Conservatives laud the former and hate the latter.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07



And that is good because a federal insurance program, which theoretically is non-profit orientated, will be much cheaper for everyone. The more people 'forced' into a program the more leverage you have against big pharma, the hospitals and medical staff. This might actually cause the prices to go down for a change rather than up and up.

When people make less because of a depressed market, the prices of medical treatment should ALSO GO DOWN.

You really believe that crap?
Good grief. Now I know why our country is swirling the toilet. People like you have infected others with group think and Progressive Collectivism.

When people do make less, because either the Govt takes more and/or the economy falls apart, then the Govt will just subsidize said Companies. So, while the smoke and mirrors show has you believing you are paying less, you are actually just taxed more.

Originally posted by NavyDoc

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
They make fun of people who do not have jobs, constantly mocking them into the ground and abusing them, pretending to be totally oblivious of the actual causes. They pretend to have no idea what global free trade is/was, what tariffs are, the extent of banks and wall street extortion against the non-wealthy.

It is a lost cause in america. What really suprises me is that some people have no morals, no decency, no common sense, nothing. They are totally in it for THEMSELVES which exemplifies selfishness and borders with evil. The higher up you go the more this superiority complex reigns supreme.

Who is more selfish? Someone who wants to keep what they earn to take care of themselves and their family or someone who wants to take what they did not earn from someone else to take care of a family they will not take care of themselves?

Those "evil wealthy" are some of the most generous people out there and America leads the world in individual charitible giving. There is a radical difference between individual charity and forced charity. Conservatives laud the former and hate the latter.

I believe your sarcasm fell on deaf ears. I am well aware of trust funds, shell companies, tax haven nations, make-believe tax deductions, hedge funds, digging in your backyard and filling bags with $100 bills, using freeman on the land logic, etc. I could not care less if the highest bracket is 39% WHEN there are more loopholes in the tax code than prime grade swiss cheese.

Wealthy people are no saints. Just because they donate money to build libraries, to research cures for diseases, to build sport faciliites, or whatever other donations they make it is peanuts compared to the billions they keep locked up in secure accounts. You must be ignorant or gullible(probably both) to not see how they use donations as smoke screens for tax evasion and sympathy. I heard the masons are charitable as well, does that mean they are good little boys?