Why are Americans prodominantly against Obamacare?

reply to post by SunnyDee

Go to Canada and see how long they wait for procedures that we get in a day.

Just out of curiosity, have you ever used the Canadian system?

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
I wonder why NO ONE call out the misleading title of this thread - which is either an ignorant one without actual valid statistical fact, or more troublesome, the typical sleight of hand by cunning propagandists to tell others what to think, typical of shills in ther real world and here.

It's one's freedom to speak and post, but another's to respond or not to. Nor is one obligated to be spoon fed here, for it is often more cherished and treasured when one searches and seek for facts by their own efforts than to rely on others for it.

May each follow this site's motto - to deny ignorance, and not be played for fools.

Good luck and cheers! :-)

I must be on the up, I've never been called a schill before. I wonder if I will get paid too?

reply to post by michael1983l


The reason most cognitive, logically thinking Americans don't like most of the provisions of this vast government take over the economy bill is that there are huge tax increases as each new provision is implemented. Not only that but the government has never had a successful track record on any thing they run except the Military.

The bill also provides for the lazy, not wanting to work people to be cared for by a system that the rest of us have to cover. There are plenty of other issues but the OP intimated that we should welcome being screwed by our government and enjoy it.

Originally posted by TheTardis

Originally posted by Maxatoria
The traditional american system is either you can afford it or its tough, if you cant afford healthcare then its tough you'll die unless someone feels generous (chairity)

Bull crap.. Do you even live here? If you have a job you can afford healthcare. Its not all that expensive but you have to go down and apply for a job, Gee that sucks.. You might have to get off food stamps and work. I have been covering my own healthcare since I moved out of mom and dads 20+ years ago. Whether I was making $7 per/hr or on up, I have had my own healthcare. Some insurers were better than others but I worked and had healthcare. Its a choice in this country just like it is a choice to either work or try to live off the system in which case you wont have healthcare. But your not going to go die because of it. You just have to pay the bill after your treated and most of those people dont pay the bill. They let it go to collections or file bankruptcy on it. People act like we just send everyone off to die without insurance. Do you think the illegals are here because we dont help them? Bull.. If you dont live here and dont know how our system works then shut up about it. You dont have a clue.

How long ago did you make $7.00 an hour? I bet insurance was more affordable then, same with cost of living. The problem is there are alot of people today who still make the minimum wage of $7.70 an hour and the cost of living has increased two-fold. These people WORK but can't afford insurance because rates has increased to the point it's too expensive, too many out of pocket costs, etc...

Before you go ranting about 'GET A JOB' maybe you should looking into the fact many people gave up looking for a job because they couldn't get hired. These folks are in the older generation but because of their age are discriminated against.

I may have insurance but I am mad as hell because they took away my RIGHT to choose whether I wanted it or not. When those rights go then it opens the door to taking away more of them!

I live in the UK and we have the National Health Service (NHS), no waiting for insurance documents when you arrive in Casualty just instant care. The NHS has its weakneses, like long waiting lists for routing operations but as they run a triage system they prioritise those that need things doing more urgently. It doesn't matter who you are, you get free primary and secondary healthcare. Sure in some areas of the UK you have to pay a perscription charge but it is only small at £7.70 per item. You can get that for free given the right circumstance too.

It works well for us and if you can afford private healthcare you can still have that too and not wait for your routine Ops.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying the NHS is perfect, but I think it is a great asset to the UK to be proud of. Just to know every citizen will receive free healthcare whenever they require it.

The US citizens should also be proud that they too are willing to pay extra tax to ensure that the most vulnerable in their society gets access to free healthcare. Life preservation must come before you bomb budget, spend money on saving people not killing people.

Originally posted by jam321
reply to post by SunnyDee

 

Go to Canada and see how long they wait for procedures that we get in a day.

Just out of curiosity, have you ever used the Canadian system?

Not personally, but I have over 100 relatives in Canada that have. And a couple of friends.

I can't speak for others but I can tell you why I don't like it.

The country is already badly in debt. This will exponentially add to the financial burden.

I wonder, too, how this will affect my current health care. What kind of service will I receive? Will services be delayed or non-existent? How will the government determine who pays what and when?

The changeover from private to public healthcare is going to be one big cluster foxtrot. We all know how efficient our government is in other matters.

I've got good healthcare now and I don't want to lose it. I'm not too impressed with the healthcare people in other countries get under socialized systems.

Just say no to socialized medical care. It screws over a huge proportion of the population who already pay through the nose.

I laymans terms If I have a job and no health insurance I can be fined for it.. that is crap. Nothing to do with more taxes. He says you must but it or buy ours or be fined.

Originally posted by dakota1s2
reply to post by michael1983l

 

The reason most cognitive, logically thinking Americans don't like most of the provisions of this vast government take over the economy bill is that there are huge tax increases as each new provision is implemented. Not only that but the government has never had a successful track record on any thing they run except the Military.

The bill also provides for the lazy, not wanting to work people to be cared for by a system that the rest of us have to cover. There are plenty of other issues but the OP intimated that we should welcome being screwed by our government and enjoy it.

There is a little irony in this post, you mention that you should not treat one of your lazy citizens for free to keep them healthy, yet you mention in the same breath that the Military does a good job. Do you realise that each US soldier is charged by international law in accordance with the Geneva convention to give medical care to wounded soldiers on the battlefeild, be it US or the Enemy.

Do you not find it slightly disturbing that your country gives free healthcare to wounded soldiers of your enemy, yet your own Citizens who are "lazy" cannot be treated for free?

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by michael1983l

 

People actually DO like the provisions in the bill...but there has been so much negative propaganda from the Republicans...that they just THINK they don't like it.

See this thread for a poll that shows this.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Yeah, anything the government and the MSM are promoting MUST be good! Again, I'm baffled by how many on ATS seemingly support big, intrusive government and are right in line with the propaganda spewed from the media. I guess as long as its liberals and Democrats behind the tyranny it's ok, right?

reply to post by michael1983l


Other than the fact that the Affordable Care Act has been dubbed "ObamaCare" and having his name on anything means that some will oppose it, there is really only one portion of the act that the American people object to. That objectionable portion is the individual mandate to purchase health insurance from a for-profit private insurance company, we actually like the rest of it's provisions.

Isn't it funny that the most objectionable part of ObamaCare is the part that the TP/GOP so fervently injected into the plan. The personal mandate was a mainstay of the TP/GOP and The Heritage Foundation right up to the minute that President Obama gave in and supported it, then it suddenly became unconstitutional. You know, the same way that Justice Roberts was the best thing since sliced bread, right up to the minute he sided with the liberal Supreme Court justices on ObamaCare. Now he's being accused of treason. And to think that it's the TP/GOP that goes around the country touting the value of loyalty.

I'm confident that once the Affordable Care Act is modified to include a public-option or converted into a single-payer Medicare-For-All program, you will see overwhelming support from the American people.

Originally posted by texasgirl

Originally posted by TheTardis

Originally posted by Maxatoria
The traditional american system is either you can afford it or its tough, if you cant afford healthcare then its tough you'll die unless someone feels generous (chairity)

Bull crap.. Do you even live here? If you have a job you can afford healthcare. Its not all that expensive but you have to go down and apply for a job, Gee that sucks.. You might have to get off food stamps and work. I have been covering my own healthcare since I moved out of mom and dads 20+ years ago. Whether I was making $7 per/hr or on up, I have had my own healthcare. Some insurers were better than others but I worked and had healthcare. Its a choice in this country just like it is a choice to either work or try to live off the system in which case you wont have healthcare. But your not going to go die because of it. You just have to pay the bill after your treated and most of those people dont pay the bill. They let it go to collections or file bankruptcy on it. People act like we just send everyone off to die without insurance. Do you think the illegals are here because we dont help them? Bull.. If you dont live here and dont know how our system works then shut up about it. You dont have a clue.

How long ago did you make $7.00 an hour? I bet insurance was more affordable then, same with cost of living. The problem is there are alot of people today who still make the minimum wage of $7.70 an hour and the cost of living has increased two-fold. These people WORK but can't afford insurance because rates has increased to the point it's too expensive, too many out of pocket costs, etc...

Before you go ranting about 'GET A JOB' maybe you should looking into the fact many people gave up looking for a job because they couldn't get hired. These folks are in the older generation but because of their age are discriminated against.

I may have insurance but I am mad as hell because they took away my RIGHT to choose whether I wanted it or not. When those rights go then it opens the door to taking away more of them!

I am confused.. So you are for or against healthcare because at the end of that rant you were mad your rights were taken away?

It has been some years go but that same job that I made $7 an hour at $7.11 to be exact pays better now than it did then. And how many people do you know that actually make minimum wage? Not many. And most of the older folks I know qualify for medicare, medicade, prescription cards and other programs. Not all but most do. That is the whole point of that system along with Social Security. We have systems in place to help the elderly out. Again this program is more to target the segment that doesnt work. Not the retired. There is a difference. And I know some people arent working because they cant find jobs. Thats called a recession and once it passes hopefully we can get those people back to work and then guess what? They will have insurance again.

Originally posted by michael1983l


It works well for us and if you can afford private healthcare you can still have that too and not wait for your routine Ops.

D

Exactly as I had said on previous posts many times. The other systems we keep hearing about have this. If you have money you still get better treatment. So we are going to a "Class Based" system now. "Please Sir, May I have another?" Geez

Originally posted by jutes
reply to post by michael1983l

 

yeah being a non-american i thought y'll would be pleased
since you healthcare sterotypically sucks
..just saying thats all :S

I am pleased. America needs a national healthcare system.

Of course anything new will take time to work out the kinks.

Unfortunately - - For some reason negativity seems to be the norm for most humans. If there's "loud" negative press - - most will go that way.

Originally posted by michael1983l

Originally posted by dakota1s2
reply to post by michael1983l

 

The reason most cognitive, logically thinking Americans don't like most of the provisions of this vast government take over the economy bill is that there are huge tax increases as each new provision is implemented. Not only that but the government has never had a successful track record on any thing they run except the Military.

The bill also provides for the lazy, not wanting to work people to be cared for by a system that the rest of us have to cover. There are plenty of other issues but the OP intimated that we should welcome being screwed by our government and enjoy it.

There is a little irony in this post, you mention that you should not treat one of your lazy citizens for free to keep them healthy, yet you mention in the same breath that the Military does a good job. Do you realise that each US soldier is charged by international law in accordance with the Geneva convention to give medical care to wounded soldiers on the battlefeild, be it US or the Enemy.

Do you not find it slightly disturbing that your country gives free healthcare to wounded soldiers of your enemy, yet your own Citizens who are "lazy" cannot be treated for free?

I think I speak for a large number of those against the ACA when I say our primary reason for not supporting the act is indeed the mandate that everyone MUST have insurance, regardless of if you want it or not. It is the government dictating what used to be a personal and private decision and is yet another step towards a federal system that is far too powerful and unweildy.

As far as taking care of the less fortunate, almost all of us (read: humans) want to help them. What we do not want is to allow the rather sizeable portion of those who knowingly abuse the system to continue to do so on everyone else's dime.

Just my opinion, your mileage may vary.

For one this bill was actually written by insurance companies that people claim to oppose. It will dump TRILLIONS of dollars in new taxes on already struggling families, despite Obama claiming otherwise for months. The money that they extort from the American people will be going to the insurance companies owned by foreign bankers. It hands the government the power to force the American people to buy anything the government wants or face the wrath of the I.R.S. This is about crushing economic freedom. Many small businesses are going to be crushed by the provisions in Obamacare that require them to provide expensive health insurance coverage for their employees. So this isn't about health care at all, if it was I would be all for it. This is about financially destroying an already struggling public.

I guess I have skin in this game, so, here goes.

I've been married for coming up on 39 years. This is the first time in all those years, the wife and I have NO healthcare.

The last six years have been horrible for us. The wife has been unemployed for quite a long time, and in those last six + years, I've been laid off for abt 3 of them. In all that time, we were still able to find a way to pay the mortgage, keep our healthcare, and pay all of our bills.

Not so any longer. I'm collecting my UI now, but those days are numbered and there are no current real prospects for a job. If this plan was fully implemented, our healthcare wouldn't be an issue, as we'd be eligible for Medicare while we were trying to get back on our feet.

Now, I'm looking at raiding my IRA's Nd 401K's to survive. Sure, people will say that we should have opted for Cobra. Problem is, if we purchased it, we'd have abt $100.00 to pay the rest of our monthly commitments. We only pray that we have no serious medical problems while we're not covered or well lose everything.

Some will say, jobs are out there, get a job. Not for lack of trying. Age now, for me is a liability. Don't believe for one second that age discrimination isn't out there as it DEFINATELY is.

We even have to find ways to get our meds.

This is the only civilized country in THE WORLD where we have to worry about this, WHY?

As was mentioned, when individual components of this healthcare legislation are examined, they all are popular. But when referred to as Obamacare, the trend isn't so good.

The true reason that those on the right, and those that they support don't like it is for one, they don't want the Dems to get credit for yet another big deal as the right is very lacking there. Also, and probably more importantly, the insurance companies are going to incur more costs from keeping kids on parents programs to having to insure those with Pre-existing conditions even though they'd rather just put them on an end of an iceberg and chop it and wave goodbye.

Complex issues. No one is truly happy, but that is usually how good legislation works.

reply to post by michael1983l


No probs. I never accuse you of one. Just that one sees many kinds in the world and here, and who says one thing but does another, fooling others in any and many way possible for one's personal self interest and not society.

The insignificant nobody me always give unknown others the benefit of the doubt. It's entirely up to your free will to do or not to do, whatever you wish with the priviledge I extended. You are, after all, only what you write.

Cheers.

reply to post by Flatfish

He is right in one way. It isn't the job of the Supreme Court to protect the people from bad political choices.

It's the Court's job to interpret existing law as it falls within the framework of the Constitution.

Someone elected the fool in the W.H. Now we're going to pay for it. Literally.

I am sick of this issue being used as a partisan wedge. Such as, if you are against Obamacare, then you are a teabagger, a republican, and a person who doesn't want to help others.

I was for this plan, until I realized that the health insurance companies are smack in the center of it all. As Evilsaddamclone pointed out, it is legalized extortion. I had thought that this would be true socialized medicine, where people pay a tax towards this, and a centralized agency would administer this. A NON-PROFIT agency.

Instead, what I see is blackmail by the private insurance companies. In order to get them to remove caps on benefits and get rid of the pre-existing condition clause, they got the Supremes to say it is constitutional to punish people via a negative tax incentive if they don't buy an insurance package from a for-profit, private corporation.

There were many ways to fix this system (such as punishing these private insurance corporations with a negative tax slap upside the head if they didn't cover certain people), but instead of that, we're now all forced to buy something at the same ridiculous rates as before. Nowhere have I read that it will be cheap and affordable. People are hanging by a thread now, what happens when it'll cost them $2000 a month to insure their family?

And guess what, folks? All the same problems and issues with private insurance are STILL THERE. High deductibles, ridiculous co-pays, denial of coverage for certain procedures and medications, the insurance saying what kind of care you can get, when you can get it, and what drugs they will or won't pay for.

It is not a partisan issue, it is not because of Obama, it is a twisting and perversion of the laws in order to force this down our throats. People that are so thrilled now are going to be crying in their ramen noodles when they realize how much it is going to cost to insure their families and themselves.....How long it is going to take to get care.....How doctors still don't have to take your brand of coverage, so you're forced to find a doc who does, and maybe the wait is forever to get care.....And how the same bullcrap problems regarding insurance will still be there. When people find that the cost of "subsidizing" private industry means they cannot pay the electric bill or the rent or car payment, then they will realize what a mistake this is.

There is the illusion, and then there is the ugly reality. We have let this Trojan Horse within our gates, and now we're going to see just how badly this is going to backfire. But hey, keep spouting divisive dems vs. pubs rhetoric. See you in the poor house....Oh wait, those don't exist anymore. See you on the streets.