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Why are Americans prodominantly against Obamacare?

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posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 01:12 PM
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Reply to post by Stormdancer777
 


Whoa whoa. Take it easy please.

No one is asking that you die. That's pretty terrible. I don't want anyone to die. Who the hell told baby boomers to die?
That's not what people are thinking. Who said that?


 
Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com
 




posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 01:16 PM
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Originally posted by spinalremain
Reply to post by Stormdancer777
 


Whoa whoa. Take it easy please.

No one is asking that you die. That's pretty terrible. I don't want anyone to die. Who the hell told baby boomers to die?
That's not what people are thinking. Who said that?


 
Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com
 



It was on the other Obama care topic the large one.

Listen I am for reformation of our health care system, but we are in trouble with what is written in this bill.



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 01:20 PM
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As long as you dismiss such things I suppose we can even laugh at that comment. Only a miserable and lesser human being would even consider such a thought. That is not what people who are in favor of SS think though. Not by a long shot.


 
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posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 01:27 PM
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Originally posted by spinalremain
Reply to post by davcon
 


Its not forcing us to buy government healthcare though.
If affordable, we must purchase from private companies. The one's who've created the problem of skyrocketing prices. Hospital charges 500 dollars for Acetaminophen and insurance companies raise premiums as a result. That's why healthcare is so damned expensive. It's nothing to do with gubbmint


 
Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com
 



Nonsense. It is government regulation and mandates that have caused the cost of healthcare to skyrocket. The reason why you pay 50 bucks for a tylenol (You'd better show a cite for a $500 dollar figure for a dose of tylenol) is because of laws like ETMLA that mandate care without reimbursement so hospitals have to make up the drain of caring for those who choose to not pay by passing the charges to those who do pay. It would be cheaper for isnurance companies if they did not have to employ thousands of bean counters to utilize the ICD and CPT coding systems it would be cheaper for all if there was tort reform. Government, my friend, has created this problem and it boggles my mind that we look to the very people who created the problem to fix it.



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 01:27 PM
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The health care reform can be debated, what else was written into that bill?

Guess we will find out.



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 01:29 PM
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Originally posted by spinalremain
As long as you dismiss such things I suppose we can even laugh at that comment. Only a miserable and lesser human being would even consider such a thought. That is not what people who are in favor of SS think though. Not by a long shot.


 
Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com
 



He called us all silver haired P####s

I am 62 I don't have healthcare, I was looking forward to eventually being able to go to a doctor in FOUR more years, lol

Now I wonder after all those years of paying taxes so others could benefit, will I be denied the care I need because of my age.

Maybe I will go out a silver haired warrior.


edit on 013030p://bSaturday2012 by Stormdancer777 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 01:30 PM
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reply to post by NavyDoc
 


I swear to god almighty that South Nassau communities hospital in Oceanside NY charged me 500 dollars for acetamenaphine in June of 2007.

I will look for the bill somewhere. If you don't believe me that's fine, but I have no reason to lie and I'm sure others here have seen the same thing.

To clarify, the bill wasn't 500 dollars, consisting of Tylenol and other things. It was neatly itemized and the Tylenol itlself was 500 dollars itself out of a 3200 dollar bill. My family and I were upset and laughing at the same time. I mean really. Come the eff on.
edit on 30-6-2012 by spinalremain because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 01:33 PM
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Originally posted by spinalremain
reply to post by NavyDoc
 


I swear to god almighty that South Nassau communities hospital in Oceanside NY charged me 500 dollars for acetamenaphine in June of 2007.

I will look for the bill somewhere. If you don't believe me that's fine, but I have no reason to lie and I'm sure others here have seen the same thing.


I'd love to see it.

Of course, the reason why paying patients ahve high bills is not because of corporations being "corporationy", it is because of cost shifting due to unfunded mandates such as EMTLA. You 500 dollar tylenol bill paid for care for the various illegals and indigent that the hospital was mandated to care for.



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 01:33 PM
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Originally posted by spinalremain
You're saying that in effect, the ACA is going to put into practice a situation where doctors have to knowingly not treat a patient because of financial politics?

How is that the fault of the ACA? If anything, I would say that the act is trying to do the exact opposite and that the problem is glaringly with the guy holding the scalpel.


 
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That is EXACTLY what I am saying. It IS the faulty of the Affordable Care Act in that it worsens a situation that ALREADY exists where doctors cannot treat patients as effectively at times as they would like because of financial politics. It is not the fault of the guy holding the scalpel. He is getting raped already. Have you noticed most doctors now days have foreign accents? That is because only people from 3rd world countries would realise a substantiual enough increase in standard of tliving to become a doctor now days. Do you know what a GP makes? About $140K a year, and they usually have about $300K in student loan debt to get there. If they are financially savvy, and started early in life they might have a nice retirement. Not a great trade for 12 years of Hell to become a doctor.

If you want to point fingers point them at multi BILLION dollar pharmaceutical companies, and hospital administrators, and CEOs that get multi-million dollar a year bonuses. For killing people by staffing at the lowest levels possible, and still maintain "Minimum level of care." to keep their sorry asses out of jail, and maintain their JCAHO certification so they can bilk tax dollars. Spit out the propaganda man, and listen to a grunt on the front lines. It isn't doctors, and nurses that want this crap. It's the power players that see you as cattle, and you are rooting for the elite right now.



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 01:35 PM
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reply to post by NavyDoc
 





You 500 dollar tylenol bill paid for care for the various illegals and indigent that the hospital was mandated to care for.


OOOOH,
Plus,

Us who pay out of pocket pay more because the insurance companies cut deals with the doctors and hospitals, a doctor told me this straight up.



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 01:37 PM
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Americans are predominantly against Obamacare because it is one huge monstrosity of a Big Government program several thousand pages long with spooky and vague parts in it that nobody understands.

Americans are predominantly against Obamacare because we have gotten smarter and more cynical as we watch our politicians grease the palms of Big Union Thugs or Big Corporate Thugs (take your pick).

Americans are predominantly against Obamacare because we are already taxed to death: Federal Income Tax, SS Tax, Medicare Tax, State Income Tax, County Tax, Hospital Tax, Property Tax, School Tax, Sales Tax....and then if you're in business you have FUTA, SUTA, Workman's Comp, your matching employee SS tax. GOOD GRIEF!! We are taxed to death.

Americans are predominantly against Obamacare because we KNOW WITHOUT A DOUBT, it will become just another Big Government Bloated Program and our kids and grandkids will have to eventually work 10 months of the year just to pay all the taxes.

Americans are predominantly against Obamacare because most of us still retain the American soul of independence, hard work, and industriousness. Our poor and disadvantaged already have programs in place that provide for them.

Americans are predominantly against Obamacare because the problems that exist in the healthcare system could have been fixed with a few regulatory tweaks....but, NOOOOOOO! They saw an opportunity to bleed the middle and upper class even more and line the pockets of politicians and banks and big corps.

Americans are predominantly against Obamacare because we do not want to be like Europe or any other nation. We prefer to teach a man to fish rather than give him a fish every single day of his life. If he needs a few fish to get him through a rough spot, we are right there, but Americans are tired of the culture of leeches that have invaded the American Way.

We are a compassionate and caring people. We have so many programs for the disadvantaged, it would take reams of paper to list them all (both Government and Private and Corporate and Religious). The cracks that exist for those who are hurting can be fixed. We don't need Obamacare to do it. We just need honest, thoughtful, fail safe tweeks.


edit on 30-6-2012 by queenofswords because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 01:37 PM
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reply to post by Binder
 


My two best friends are in the medical field, I hear all the horror stories, what you have posted is absolutely true.



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 01:38 PM
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reply to post by NavyDoc
 


im not home right now to look for bill, but I will later I promise.
Anyway, here's a guy who was charged 350.00 for tylenol.
The problem is very real.

mycrohnsandcolitis.com...



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 01:38 PM
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Originally posted by spinalremain
reply to post by NavyDoc
 


im not home right now to look for bill, but I will later I promise.
Anyway, here's a guy who was charged 350.00 for tylenol.
The problem is very real.

mycrohnsandcolitis.com...


I believe it.



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 01:39 PM
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Originally posted by Binder

Originally posted by spinalremain
You're saying that in effect, the ACA is going to put into practice a situation where doctors have to knowingly not treat a patient because of financial politics?

How is that the fault of the ACA? If anything, I would say that the act is trying to do the exact opposite and that the problem is glaringly with the guy holding the scalpel.


 
Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com
 



That is EXACTLY what I am saying. It IS the faulty of the Affordable Care Act in that it worsens a situation that ALREADY exists where doctors cannot treat patients as effectively at times as they would like because of financial politics. It is not the fault of the guy holding the scalpel. He is getting raped already. Have you noticed most doctors now days have foreign accents? That is because only people from 3rd world countries would realise a substantiual enough increase in standard of tliving to become a doctor now days. Do you know what a GP makes? About $140K a year, and they usually have about $300K in student loan debt to get there. If they are financially savvy, and started early in life they might have a nice retirement. Not a great trade for 12 years of Hell to become a doctor.

If you want to point fingers point them at multi BILLION dollar pharmaceutical companies, and hospital administrators, and CEOs that get multi-million dollar a year bonuses. For killing people by staffing at the lowest levels possible, and still maintain "Minimum level of care." to keep their sorry asses out of jail, and maintain their JCAHO certification so they can bilk tax dollars. Spit out the propaganda man, and listen to a grunt on the front lines. It isn't doctors, and nurses that want this crap. It's the power players that see you as cattle, and you are rooting for the elite right now.


Although you forget the biggest cause of expense to healthcare there is: government. From the CPT/ICD coding systems, to EMTLA, to regulations that cost billions of dollars to get drugs to market, and so forth, you cannot talk about abuse of elite power players without looking at Washington D.C. too.



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 01:42 PM
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Originally posted by spinalremain
reply to post by NavyDoc
 


im not home right now to look for bill, but I will later I promise.
Anyway, here's a guy who was charged 350.00 for tylenol.
The problem is very real.

mycrohnsandcolitis.com...


Well, anectdotes do not equal data, but let's take a look at the article. The article you posted explained that the costs of the medications were due to cost shifting from unfunded government care mandates. Thus, the article you posted does not indicate or even suggest that insurance companies were trying to bilk the patient at all, but the expense of medication in the hospital is due to all of the people said hospital is mandated to care for. Your 500 dollar tylenol was government in action.



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 01:45 PM
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Reply to post by NavyDoc
 


i wasn't trying to accuse anyone of anything actually. I was asking real questions because Im not involved in the field. I was being sincere in asking you these questions. It's always better to ask rather than to start assuming factual garbage.
Now I know a lot more because you've explained to me the practicality of the situation.
Thanks


 
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posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 01:46 PM
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Because the average citizen of the USA is a total scum bag and a psychopath. Not to mention the vast majority of them have I.Q.s in the low 80s range.



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 01:47 PM
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Reply to post by NavyDoc
 


Spin it however you like.

I dont care who's at fault or why it is. In a situation where tylenol costs 500 dollars, there's a gigantic problem. No?


 
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posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 01:47 PM
link   

Originally posted by queenofswords
Americans are predominantly against Obamacare because it is one huge monstrosity of a Big Government program several thousand pages long with spooky and vague parts in it that nobody understands.

Americans are predominantly against Obamacare because we have gotten smarter and more cynical as we watch our politicians grease the palms of Big Union Thugs or Big Corporate Thugs (take your pick).

Americans are predominantly against Obamacare because we are already taxed to death: Federal Income Tax, SS Tax, Medicare Tax, State Income Tax, County Tax, Hospital Tax, Property Tax, School Tax, Sales Tax....and then if you're in business you have FUTA, SUTA, Workman's Comp, your matching employee SS tax. GOOD GRIEF!! We are taxed to death.

Americans are predominantly against Obamacare because we KNOW WITHOUT A DOUBT, it will become just another Big Government Bloated Program and our kids and grandkids will have to eventually work 10 months of the year just to pay all the taxes.

Americans are predominantly against Obamacare because most of us still retain the American soul of independence, hard work, and industriousness. Our poor and disadvantaged already have programs in place that provide for them.

Americans are predominantly against Obamacare because the problems that exist in the healthcare system could have been fixed with a few regulatory tweaks....but, NOOOOOOO! They saw an opportunity to bleed the middle and upper class even more and line the pockets of politicians and banks and big corps.

Americans are predominantly against Obamacare because we do not want to be like Europe or any other nation. We prefer to teach a man to fish rather than give him a fish every single day of his life. If he needs a few fish to get him through a rough spot, we are right there, but Americans are tired of the culture of leeches that have invaded the American Way.

We are a compassionate and caring people. We have so many programs for the disadvantaged, it would take reams of paper to list them all (both Government and Private and Corporate and Religious). The cracks that exist for those who are hurting can be fixed. We don't need Obamacare to do it. We just need honest, thoughtful, fail safe tweeks.


edit on 30-6-2012 by queenofswords because: (no reason given)


Extremely well put. These are the exact feelings I have. I'm sorry to those who think everything is political. I could give a damn if this has "Obama" or "Bush" or any other presidents name in front of it. All I see here is a new tax. More money out of my pocket. More food out of my kids mouth.

The entire health care system is messed up. And instead of fixing THAT problem, it seems now we are told "yeah health care in America is a joke.. so now you ALL must pay for it". Why does it cost me $350 to walk into an emergency room and have my blood pressure taken? Honestly.. I got a bill from an ER for $350 because I walked in the door. I sat there for 6 hours without being seen and I walked out. It's these sort of small things that are a joke. Have a heart problem and no insurance? Well.. your choice is either death, or life long debt, probably passed to your children. My father had quadruple bypass a few years ago. The bill was $795,000!!!!!! Thankfully he is a retired police and has excellent insurance. Imagine he didn't.

And we have to buy into this nonsense? To me this isn't about helping those without insurance. There are already programs for that. This to me seems more of a way to make insurance companies all the more richer.

I know, someones going to jump down my throat and say I'm all wrong. But I've read the entire bill. And this is my take on it. As a single father, who is currently on Family Health Plus in NYS, I see absolutely ZERO benefit in this new "tax".



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