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Why are Americans prodominantly against Obamacare?

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posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 06:20 AM
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Originally posted by drwizardphd
Healthcare is a basic human right,

No. It's a commodity. In a free market society, healthcare is a commodity.


Originally posted by The Sword
The problem is that certain forces in the US have conspired to turn this issue into a tax issue.

'certain forces'?? The SCOTUS passed it as a TAX. The SCOTUS ...
So by calling it a TAX, that is exactly what it is ... a TAX.
No matter how much dingbat Nancy Pelosi or Obama deny it. It's a TAX according to SCOTUS.


Originally posted by WeRpeons
Sometimes I wonder if any of these people have ever had a family member with a devastating disease. Or have a mother or father who needed assisted living for the rest of their lives.

Yes on both counts. And I'm still against Obamacare and the new ObamaTAX because ... IT IS UNSUSTAINABLE.

If there is anything our government should be responsible for, it's to make sure everyone has a right to get medical treatment.

Health care isn't a right, it's a commodity. And the government destroys everything it touches.

It's funny that every other industrial country get it except us.

It's funny how Canadians cross the border into the USA to get better health care for major problems.




posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 06:21 AM
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The one issue not being talked about here is the hippocratic oath that all medical doctors take. The insurance companies and the mainstream media don't want you to know that a third of all care must be charity care and therefore free. This is how the illegals get healthcare the second they walk across the border, but if you the American born citizen need care you end up in debt or now fined with Obamacare.

This bill was written by the insurance companies and it does nothing but add a huge tax to the already struggling middle class. We simply cannot afford it. It is not the right of congress or the president to demand that we the people purchase an item and the fact is, if this bill went through as the tax that it is, it would have never passed.

The solution here is to get government out of healthcare and make sure it's common knowledge that doctors are required based on their hippocratic oath to provide a third of their services as charity care and not just to the illegals. Those that can pay for insurance should. Those that can't afford it or opt out should always be covered free of charge without the tax.



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 06:21 AM
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I am against this particular bill. I don't agree that every American is required to pay a health care tax.

I also hate the current system because of fraud. Our elected governor Rick Scott is guilty of medicare fraud for his Solantra business that he gave his wife so he would not be related to the fraud during election time. He was found guilty of about a billion dollars in medicare fraud through over-billing and billing for services not provided. That is the norm for just about every doctors office in America right now.

There is already fraud taking place costing billions per year because of greedy doctors and practitioners that bill the government and mark up the prices for insured customers. It has gotten to the point that you get a lot worse service, or none at all, if you have no insurance because they cannot continue to bill you for useless testing etc.

This bill does nothing to stop medicare fraud and in my opinion it makes it easier. It is not just the bankers who are corrupt nor the politicians, but the doctors and hospitals. I am sure there are a couple of doctors who are not scumbags like Rick Scott and the rest, but I have yet to find them.

What is really needed is tougher restrictions on doctors. A cap for services. No cost difference for insured/non-insured. Prosecution including mandatory jail time for offenders including administrators who set policies that allow this fraud. Accountability for bad decisions with real consequences.

We can still have a free market without being so corrupt. I am not willing to play the corruption game just to make money. I am not a shallow human being with no regard to other peoples' welfare. Unfortunately the opposite is true for most care providers.



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 06:25 AM
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i can't speak for anyone but myself...
and i am against obamacare/ACA because it reeks of Statism

= Statism - Definition ...
concentration of economic controls and planning in the hands of a highly centralized government often extending to government ownership of industry ......
www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/statism



before the healthcare law... Statism only concerned the poor & low income class in the form of welfare & food stamps as payment for their collective vote (actual vote never really counted because the manipulated votes tallied would correspond to the metropolitan masses that received the mentioned entitlements, thus never show any anomaly from what was stasticially expected )


but with the Affordable Care Act, Now the rest of the middle class, except for the corporate elites who 'earned' a 'waiver' from forced participation...are now under the thumb of the STATE, i.e. the imperial presidency & the committees that run the bureaucracy system



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 06:25 AM
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So, I'm a college student working my ### off to get an advantage over others in a struggle job market. I can barely afford to go to school, pay bills, and have any kind of meal in my stomach every night. There are somedays I don't get to eat, why? Because I'm putting all my money to further my education, in hopes that it will benefit me in the long run. NOW, I have to pay into something that I cannot afford....or.....be fined by the IRS? Are you joking me? If I can't afford it, how does a fine make any sense?


"Oh hey, you need to pay or this insurance or you're going to get a fine bud."

"Yeah...I can't afford that at all and pay for things I actually need..."

"Oh okay, we'll just fine you and you can pay it that way."

"I don't have money...."

"Oh, well....we're going to be needing that money...so if you can just go ahead and get that to us..that'd be great. Thaaaanks."



For anyone that says they're ok with any of this I have one question for you, What's it like having money to spend however you want?

Must be nice...not having to worry about whether or not you're going to have food on the table, power for heat, running water, or even a place to live.



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 06:30 AM
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It just happens to be the largest TAX INCREASE in the history of our Country and the working stiff will be paying for it and they are the ones that already insurance.



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 06:34 AM
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Originally posted by jsmappy
reply to post by McGinty
 




In the Year 322AD the Pope put to Death most of the key players of what is currently called the Freemasons/Illuminati. They vowed to get revenge. So, 322 became their motto.



What is the highest level of Freemasonry? The 33rd Degree.

When were the Georgia Guidestones erected? March 22, 1980 ( 322 )

When was Obamacare passed? March 22nd, 2010 ( 322 )

Now, March 22nd 2013 - they plan on having achieved all the goals layed out in exactly 33 years.

This is what 12-21-12 is all about and the Age of Aquarius. However, you are free to feel that Democrats and Republicans oppose each other and that when you vote it matters. You will realize this year that the world is not what you thought it was, nor that mortal men control the levers of society.


Hmmm... No offence, but you do tend to get cryptically tangental. I'll try to reply concisely....

Whether your fears about the Masons are reality or myth, i'd agree that there are serious problems with US policy. However, if the Masons want to replace the currently unfair Health Insurence system that protects only those with the financial means with a new Healthcare system that looks after the poor and meek, then where do i sign up to be Mason?

Please explain exactly (not in cryptic apocalyptic language, but in concise articulate points) how a state run Healthcare system ushers in the Mayan end days, as you suggest?


Oh, btw, indeed i do believe that whomever you vote for, the same corporations get in. However, i have no idea at all what that has to do with providing medicine for those without the means to buy it from said corporations.

I'm sure the greedy corps may make even more money out of the deal, but are you saying it's better to let the sick-poor suffer and die than to allow the greedy corporations to increase their profits even further?

Isn't the cutting off your nose to spite your face?




edit on 30-6-2012 by McGinty because: format



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 06:35 AM
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reply to post by SpaceLeatherneck
 


Not just the history of this country but the entire world. The largest tax increase in the history of the entire world and people are making threads asking why we're against it? How about we cut some of that defence budget (defence of Israel that is) to pay for this garbage? Of course not!



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 06:39 AM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan


It's funny that every other industrial country get it except us.

It's funny how Canadians cross the border into the USA to get better health care for major problems.





I lived in Canada for 12 years. I thought it was funny that my dual citizen (U.S./Canadian) friends who had excellent insurance in America chose to have major surgeries and treatments in Canada instead of America. I saw that happen several times. Cancer treatments/surgery too! No waiting. It's not really like what you imagine it is. The waiting is emphasized on U.S. television. It wouldn't serve our government if we demanded for ourselves what Canada has for everyone. I'd love Canada's system here - run in the Canadian way.



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 06:40 AM
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I don't like it because it targets a symptom, and not the cause.
It's not about how to afford health care, it's about how to afford insurance.

What needs to happen is for the actual cost of healthcare to come down. There's no reason in the world for 6 hours in a hospital to cost $12,000. That's just ridiculous.

Maybe if they stopped paying millions to administrators they could afford to drop the prices some.

Personally, I kinda like it being a tax. Now when I don't buy insurance, they can tack the fine onto the rest of money I owe them that I'll never be able to pay for.



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 06:53 AM
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reply to post by michael1983l
 
Your Answer.

Even if the ACA is upheld, and despite the best intentions of many advocates to defend it, the law was largely written by Liz Fowler, Vice President of Policy at the nation’s largest and most profitable health insurance company, WellPoint.

The law will deliver 20+ million new customers and $447 billion in taxpayer subsidies directly to the private health insurance companies, but leave at least 23 million uninsured, and millions more under-insured with inadequate health insurance coverage.

The cornerstone of the ACA is the individual mandate. This regressive policy requires that if you are not eligible for a public program (Medicare, Medicaid, the V.A.), you will then be forced to buy private health insurance, or remain uninsured and pay a fine. The 99% will have to pay a much higher percentage of their income than the affluent for their coverage, and older people pay more than younger people. A 43-year-old individual making 34,000 a year will pay $5,204 in premiums and deductibles before the insurance will kick in to only cover 60% of the cost of care.

Having insurance is no guarantee that you won’t go bankrupt should you have a serious illness or accident. Massachusetts implemented the individual mandate model in 2006, and their numbers still match the nation with 2/3 of all bankruptcies linked to medical debt, even though most people had insurance at the time of illness.

Massachusetts claims it has reduced the number of uninsured in the state by 60-80%, but the state safety net programs have been decimated. With pressure from the federal government, the law funneled public dollars at lightning speed to the private health insurance industry to subsidize their inadequate policies.

Healthcare suffers because these companies do not prioritize paying for care, but rather gobble up 30% of our healthcare dollar with shareholder profits, huge CEO salaries, marketing, high overhead and administrative costs (compared to Medicare with administrative costs of only 2%).

from - occupywallst.org...



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 07:11 AM
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I don't have a problem with people receiving proper medical treatment at all i deeply believe that people should get help when they are sick. With that being said i do not think that it is fair to tax everyone just because people get sick. Not all people live by the same life styles, and all Americans don't automatically follow the standard American health practices. I haven't been sick to the point where i need to see a doctor in since i was 17 ( six or seven years ago) and the last time i went because of an illness all they did was give me a shot which made me feel worse. Since that day i decided to take care of my body, eat better and cut out the fast food,soda and junk that is considered food. The only thing i choose to go to the doctor for is a physical which i happily pay out of my pocket because they are relatively inexpensive. Maybe if the hospitals would offer alternative practices i wouldn't mind paying for it. Its just sad that for a common cold people leave the hospital with three bags of pills, and people who are diabetic are told that its too late we cant save your foot. When the common cold can be healed at home and with proper diet colds flu's become rare because your immune system is working properly. I know of people who were told they would need dialysis and their feet chopped of but used alternative medicine along with a full body detox to heal themselves of their diabetic ailment. People have free will to cause there sickness so I think people should have free will to choose how they want to be treated and in some cases people can heal themselves but they put there lively hood in the hands of another person who is bias to anything they haven't learned in University. I'm sure there will be plenty of people that cant afford to pay these taxes that will go to see the doctor and be just fine but the obedient tax payers of America will take care of that in addition to all of their other bills. I guess i will pay what ever tax that i have to pay even if they are against my will



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 07:17 AM
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I'm against it. Why? I live in Massachusetts and we've had something very similar to this nightmare - mandated insurance. We pay over $1,200 per month out of our own pockets for two adults and that is with a $2,000 deductible. Yes, we are self-employed so it hits us hard. In this state the quality of health care since this mandate has gone down and costs have quickly gone up and will go up more under obummercare. Apparently the author of this thread doesn't understand that the costs of this are going to be paid for by the middle class. We are now more than ever being forced to subsidize people who are too lazy to go out and earn money to pay for their own health care. Ask any doctor, nurse or health care professional in MA and they will tell you how horrible it is here and it is soon to become horrible everywhere unless we vote obummer out.



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 07:18 AM
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reply to post by michael1983l
 


Obamacare has nothing to do with Healthcare. This bill was all about control. The US Government now has the ability to take control of any portion of our lives they want, as long as they can tie to healthcare. Or more specifically the lowering of healthcare costs. (wink, wink)

Private schools don't provide adequate food for students, only government schools can provide the right food, this increases healthcare costs.... Tax them out of business
Ford trucks are more likely to get into a crash (because they didn't take my bailout money) this increases healthcare costs... Tax them out of business
People who own Ipods/Iphones (evil profit making empire) are exposed to more radiation. This increases healthcare cost.... Tax them out of business
Kids drown in swimming pools (only the evil rich have pools) This increases healthcare costs..... Tax them out of business

As Mr. Obama told Sarah Brady. I'll ban all firearms, but its going to take me some time....................

Firearms are dangerous and increase the cost of healthcare......Tax them out of business

Protesting will lead to riots, riots to injuries. This increases healthcare costs...... Kill all protestors to keep healthcare costs down.



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 07:27 AM
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Originally posted by michael1983l
Why would any civilized person complain about making primary healthcare available to all instead of just those that have the cash to pay for it?

How can a population of a developed nation like the USA complain about paying extra taxes for this when their current government invests more money in war than all other nations combines accross the globe?

Just saying.


You're asking the wrong question in the wrong way. The correct question is why should a free society be robbed by their own government to pay for those among us who refuse to pay for themselves?

Health Insurance is not the reason these people can't afford a heart transplant. Soaring health costs at the hands of greedy doctors and hospitals, however, are. And forcing the middle class to pay, once again, for those who won't get off their asses, isn't going to do anything more than take that much more from those in this country who earn what they work for.

But the saving grace is this decision will be the very reason that Barack Obama is voted out in November.



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 07:31 AM
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reply to post by michael1983l
 

While obamacare may look attractive it is far from what it seems to be!
It's simple really; We don't like being forced to 1 buy health insurance when we can barely afford a place to live and the rising cost of food prices forces us to choose between eating and having very expensive health insurance! 2 Since companies having 50 or more workers will now be forced to buy health insurance for their employees, They must choose between downsizing or paying a penalty! I believe many companies will downsize or pay penalties especially considering the rising cost of insurance because of rising health care costs!
This will have a detrimental effect on the American economy even though it may raise revenue in the short run, it will be extreamly harmful overall!
In my eyes this is just another way to rape the american public of it's monies especially those that can't afford to pay! While we should have raised taxes to pay for this attrocity instead we end up killing the small businesses and middleclass families to where all that will be left are the rich man and his slaves!



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 07:54 AM
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Originally posted by akscorp
I don't have a problem with people receiving proper medical treatment at all i deeply believe that people should get help when they are sick. With that being said i do not think that it is fair to tax everyone just because people get sick. Not all people live by the same life styles, and all Americans don't automatically follow the standard American health practices. I haven't been sick to the point where i need to see a doctor in since i was 17 ( six or seven years ago) and the last time i went because of an illness all they did was give me a shot which made me feel worse. Since that day i decided to take care of my body, eat better and cut out the fast food,soda and junk that is considered food. The only thing i choose to go to the doctor for is a physical which i happily pay out of my pocket because they are relatively inexpensive. Maybe if the hospitals would offer alternative practices i wouldn't mind paying for it. Its just sad that for a common cold people leave the hospital with three bags of pills, and people who are diabetic are told that its too late we cant save your foot. When the common cold can be healed at home and with proper diet colds flu's become rare because your immune system is working properly. I know of people who were told they would need dialysis and their feet chopped of but used alternative medicine along with a full body detox to heal themselves of their diabetic ailment. People have free will to cause there sickness so I think people should have free will to choose how they want to be treated and in some cases people can heal themselves but they put there lively hood in the hands of another person who is bias to anything they haven't learned in University. I'm sure there will be plenty of people that cant afford to pay these taxes that will go to see the doctor and be just fine but the obedient tax payers of America will take care of that in addition to all of their other bills. I guess i will pay what ever tax that i have to pay even if they are against my will


What you say is true, the real reason why there are so many sick is the way we live, the food we eat, the water we drink, the air we breathe! The medical industry is just that an industry and it's about making money not healing! If we continue to live our lives as a commodity for health care, health care will end up being a majority
of what ails us! This is why the alternative meds are kept from being used, cancer cures made to look like quackery and anyone who does'nt run to the doctor for every little thing looks like a nut! We are loosing the lease on our own lives! I feel like we will never stand against the plutocracy that put many unjust laws and repealed most of our freedoms! Right now when we should all be yelling "I'm mad as hell and i'm not going to take it anymore" We are whining and crying on the internet! God forgive us for our idle hands but will our posterity forgive our nievete, ignorance and lack of action? Cause i don't!



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 07:57 AM
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Pelosi: "You have to pass the bill to find out what's in it."

That is the major reason people are against it. It was rushed and passed for political reasons, not for what's best for the American people. The system is broken. One step short of Socialism.




posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 08:02 AM
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Originally posted by PrimePorkchop
But the saving grace is this decision will be the very reason that Barack Obama is voted out in November.


Unfortunately, that won't help. Even IF Romney is elected and repeals Obamacare, the "legal" framework has been set up for the government to tax you for not having something the government thinks you should have. Don't have a "green" car? Tax. Don't have a 401K? Tax. Don't have a TV that gets CNN? Tax. Don't want your children to receive an experimental vaccine? Tax.

I may not like it, but I really have to respect the genius, the forethought, the planning, and the determination of the people who want to enslave the world under the New World Order. I look at the way the US dollar has been devalued since the beginning of the Federal Reserve Bank, and I see American freedoms declining at the same rate. I'm afraid that their plan is unstoppable.



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 08:02 AM
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reply to post by michael1983l
 


What does the amount of money the govt spends on war and its war machines have to do with how much I have to pay for health care ? What does that have to do how much money I personally spend on insurance or bandaids. I am a democrate and I dont want this Obamacare. I dont want anyone telling me how I should spend my own hard earned cash. If I want to buy insurance I will but I dont need the govt telling me I MUST buy it.



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