Why are Americans prodominantly against Obamacare?

Originally posted by Lucas73
reply to post by GenerationGap

 

Americans have no idea how bad their system is now. I live in a New Zealand were we have universal healthcare and no-one tells me to DO anything except my doctor telling me to lose weight, lol. There are no death panels or any loss of rights predicted by Obamacare doomsayers. If a doctor ever stuffs up your treatment they get in trouble but not sued because it will be fixed (if possible). What else do you need? Millions of dollars? If money made your emotional distress go away, marriages would end in divorce less. People getting an MRI everytime they go to a doctor? overtesting. They use their tests to make money out of you. It seems some Americans want to line up and bend over but they aint getting their temperature taken. No wonder Americans travel to New Zealand to get procedures at a third of the price they pay in the good ol' US of A. You're being ripped off. The US Government hates NZ's Pharmac, the NZ Gov organisation that buys pharmaceuticals in bulk (for 4 million people) and getting a cheap deal from the big pharma companies. Subsidised prescriptions cost me $NZ3 each ($US2.49) atm (it's going up to $NZ5 next year for the first increase in a very long time) First world care at second world prices. only 6% unemployment AND our education system is the third best in the world behind South Korea and some other asian country. No wonder James Cameron is moving here, lol, and I know, he's Canadian. Obamacares only problem is it isn't just paid through your taxes. Just so you know, Kiwi's complain about their healthcare too, but ask if they would give it up for the American way and they will thinkyou are CRAZY!.

Older Americans are being treated differently in this country, as are the homeless and poor. Elderly people who call the emergency#(911) have a longer response time. The truth is that there are a lot of things going on within the medical/insurance business/s that are being covered up, as a means to "save" money for the insurance companies and/or medicare.

Nobody can be blamed for being paranoid anymore, not when so much is happening that seems to be out of our control.

Originally posted by misfitofscience
The answer to your question: They are just stupid. the more people you have the dumber the population will be. The dumber the population will be the dumber the system will be, the dumber the system will be, the dumber the products and services will be, until one that actually makes sense is dumb down and made to be a conspiracy.

How is subsidized health care a bad thing at all Jesus H Christ.

You might have the wrong idea about just how this OC system will be impletemented. People will still have to buy their own insurance, plus pay a tax. Those who can afford the premium HC will still have better and more treatments available to them than the middle income and/or the poor. Nothing is going to change in this classist environment other than the people are being forced to purchase health care.. of which we are already responsible for..

I am against it because I fear this is an illusion to get the microchip out there. Where you'd need something in order to get these benefits.

Call me crazy. It's ok.

I'm against Government Mandated Health Care because it restricts my self-determination, and then
requires me to pay for the loss...

I'm against GMHC because I can for-see a future where further restrictions are placed on my
ability to choose for myself, where society can dictate to me, what I can eat, whether I should
exercise, whether I can smoke, or drink, or engage in risky activities...because if I harm
myself I also harm society, because now I am no longer responsible for myself....everyone
who helps pay into this system, all of society, is responsible for me, and has a rightful
authority to dictate to me, how I should live, what risks I can take, what I can eat, what
medications I must take...

It will lead to a future where the freedom to risk your own life by climbing a tree, or riding a
motorcycle will be legislated and restricted BECAUSE NOW, society at large has a fiscal
concern over EVERY individual...

Want extra cheese on your pizza? NOPE...you're too fat. Want to smoke? NO!...it's bad for you.
Want to go swimming? Only with a life jacket and a life guard on duty.

Many freedoms to live your life the way you choose will be restricted in the future....because what
you do to yourself affects everyone, and everyone, thru consensus gets to choose for you...

You only get thirty thousand days on this planet....I choose to live mine as freely as possible.
Do with yours whatever you wish...but don't attempt TO FORCE me to live as you do, and
I promise I will never force you to live as I do....

Someone is going to be getting a fat check from this.

I honestly don't care what the bill says, or what anyone thinks it says. If you believe that the United States government can properly and effeciently regulate healthcare and the associated insurance, then just look at all the other corrupt government run programs in this country. Seriously, if you are in favor of this, do you really think it was done for the good of the people? Or do you think maybe that insurance companies wanted this so they could dig their claws into the tens of millions without health insurance? What would be "par for the course" so to speak? What has the current government done in every other industry so far? Come on, use your heads. This is going to be a disaster, and to think otherwise is foolish.

Whether its a tax or a penalty, or whatever they claim it is; where do you think the money will come from? There are only 2 options, because it sure as hell is not going to come from the pockets of large insurance companies.

Citizens will be taxed or fined by force, or the government will borrow more money to pay for it. We all know that what will really happen is both; once it becomes obvious that taxes and fines will never be able to pay for the massive cost of healthcare for tens of millions of unhealthy Americans, the government will start borrowing money to fund the plan.

And if it comes down to the basics, I just don't like the idea of being required to do something like this. You say I value money more than I value my neighbor's life? Really? Well guess what fool, my neighbor is a 350 pound 2 pack a day smoker who sits on his couch for 8 hours a day eating f**king Doritos while watching grown men throw balls to each other or drive 500 miles in circles. I think its probably safe to say I value my money more than my neighbor values HIS OWN LIFE. And do I even need to mention that I have not had a single health problem in 15 years because I know how to be healthy and I stay active. This thing is really easy to figure out. You can't just spread the burden of someone's irresponsible behavior to others who are responsible.

I really can't even believe this is a debate. Its absurd.

americans are actually split 50-50 along party-lines that promote the false duality of opposing sides in our one-party fascist system. obamacare is largely the whitehouse's gift to insurance cartels, not toward universal healthcare, and follows the one party platform both bush and obama represent...perfectly.

Originally posted by jam321
Need something to complain about.

Remember many people thought Obama was going to get slammed. Boenher said don't gloat, etc etc. It shocked them when they found out Obama won again.

Some people don't like Obama to have a good day.

This is not about Obama. Hillary pushed her version of healthcare reform and both plans have Marxism written all over it.

Originally posted by michael1983l
reply to post by jhn7537

 

I think you will find that most countries national health services are doing exactly that already. It is America that is behind the times here and it has become apparent why, you have been programmed to be selfish and self significant so much so that your human regard for life has been erroded. I'm leaving this subject here now I think, theres no point arguing this out with you, I'm just glad I don't live in the USA.

Funny, a million people a year apply for citizenship and say just the opposite. They are grateful to be in the US and to have state of the art technology in health care. I find it completely bizarre that so many foreigners compare their socialist care to ours when I have heard so many stories of how people had to wait months just to see a doctor or get surgery, how people die waiting and so on. And then there are those who believed Michael Moore's lies about Cuba.

Originally posted by Soulece
I am against it because I fear this is an illusion to get the microchip out there. Where you'd need something in order to get these benefits.

Call me crazy. It's ok.

I definitely think that will be part of it eventually. Think Soylent Green, Total Recall and Spychips all rolled into one neat little package.

Here are some of the provisions of Obamacare as delineated by Senator Jim Demint.

www.demint.senate.gov...

Here's a document by the Cato Inst, and very informative about the real stats of Obamacare

Growing the Nanny State
A little-discussed provision of the health
care legislation requires restaurant chains
with at least 20 locations or franchises to
post calorie counts next to prices on menus,
menu boards, and drive-through menus. In
addition, restaurateurs would be required to
post a brief statement regarding daily caloric
intake and advise guests that additional nutrition
information is available. Other nutrition
data, which must be available on request,
would include calories from fat, total
fat, saturated fat, cholesterol, sodium, carbohydrates,
sugars, dietary fiber and protein.239
More than 200,000 establishments will be affected
by the change.240 The law also requires
nutrition information to be posted on food
and beverage vending machines.241

However, the Patient Protection and AffordableCare Act fails to do anything to
reduce or even restrain the growth in those
costs. According to Richard Foster, the government’s
chief health care actuary, the legislation
will actually increase U.S. health
care spending by $311 billion over 10 years
(see Figure 8).284

www.cato.org...


And let's not forget the Death Panels and rationing

Sarah Palin was exactly right about death panels as this caller attests. Tonight, a brain surgeon called into Mark Levin’s radio show and said that he had just recently visited Washington DC to review Obama’s new health care plan for advanced neurosurgical care for patients over 70 years old, issued by HHS. The plan, that included “ethics panels”, stated that if your were over 70 years old and on government supported healthcare and you visited an emergency room, you get “comfort care”:

Caller: Yes. And basically they don’t call them patients, they call them units. And instead of – they call it “ethics panels” or “ethics committees”, would get together and meet and decide where the money would go for hospitals, and basically for patients over 70 years of age, that advanced neurosurgical care was not generally indicated.

www.therightscoop.com...

Originally posted by michael1983l

Originally posted by beezzer
If I may chime in. . . .

The ACA (Affordible Care Act) or Obamacare is an attempt to take the responsibility of the individual and place it in the hands of the government.

Healthcare is not a right.

It is a personal responsibility left to the individual.

How much salt, bacon, scotch, nicotine, soda, Big Macs. . . I put in my body is up to me.

Not the government.

Yet the government has taken the onus upon themselves to determine our own measure of healthcare.

Individuality is hardwired into the american soul. Yet this "Law" takes away our individual right to self-determination.

edit on 29-6-2012 by beezzer because: (no reason given)

That is where you are so wrong, healthcare is a right, just as the ability to breathe air is. Why would healthcare not be a right? Why would you not want to practice life preservation wherever possible? Is life that cheap to you that it has a pricetag?

To be honest I am flabberghasted by that comment, I never really knew that capitalism could make people regard life so cheaply.

If you think Capitalism regards human life so cheaply, wait till you find out the real provisions of Obamacare which will include rationing and giving just minimal treatment to the elderly. The socialists won't tell you though, that rationing is how they plan to cut costs. Real cost cutting would be to provide free market competition.

Mark Levin and this neurosurgeon say Sarah Palin was right, death panels and rationing

______beforeitsnews/story/1510/624/Neurosurgeon_Calls_In_About_Death_Panels_From_Obamacare_And_HHS,_This_Is_Crazy_Must_See_Video.html

And we are being called "Units", and even the DMV doesn't do that yet...

People should generally not be forced to buy products (insurance) from private corporations. The pharma industry is really the big winner in this whole situation.

Of course the idea of medical care sounds good on paper, but its not affordable in practice. Costs will simply explode because once private corporations get a sniff of public money its literally like taking candy from a baby.
To make it work they would have to regulate all costs (doctors pay, hospital charges etc) which would be a bureaucratic nightmare and lead to a serious degradation in service.

Pharma 1 USA 0

It is because the American public is so dumbed down they listen to the big money interests when they buy up add space promoting their agenda.
Simple as that.
Universal HC is not the best in the world but it is fantastic when you really need it.

I'm opposed to being micro-chipped. It doesn't matter if they give me a free sucker, I'm still opposed to it and they will have have to kill me in order to chip my dead body. I won't allow it.

Questions?

P.S. Where did you learn how to spell?
"Prodominantly" ?
I guess English is not your first language?

reply to post by michael1983l


I would not pay attention to such garbage on ATS.

There's a segment of ATS that still watches Fox News and other MSM outlets.

why dont they just take the money from defense funding/spending to pay for healthcare?

problem solved right?

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

I find it completely bizarre that so many foreigners compare their socialist care to ours when I have heard so many stories of how people had to wait months just to see a doctor or get surgery

Socialised healthcare:
1. you have to wait if you want to have free healthcare
2. you can pay and receive it immidiately

Free-market healthcare:
1. you can pay and receive it immidiately
2. if you cannot pay, you are screwed

Waiting times for free surgery are a pretty bad argument against socialised healthcare, because in free market healthcare, waiting time for free healthcare is infinite.

I have tried to avoid threads about Obamacare because I have very mixed feelings about it. I should mention that I am not American but judging by the distributions of stars on posts that are for and against Obamacare I would say 50% of Americans support it and the other half absolutely despise it. And I can understand both sides of the argument.

On one hand I believe in the whole "sharing is caring" mentality. I hate seeing poor people suffer in pain while others have enough money to last them several life times. I believe in a reasonable degree of social equality. And that's basically what this type of health care system is: it's a socialist system. It takes tax money from everyone and uses that money to pay for everyone's healthcare.

Many people don't pay taxes and some people pay more taxes than other people. It's not like people who pay more taxes get more expensive medical treatments paid for by the Government. The tax money is distributed evenly among rich and poor people so that everyone has a chance to afford the healthcare they need... well that's how it works in my country and I assume Obamacare will be the same.

This type of socialist health care system is the antithesis of free market capitalism... which is the system America was founded on. But you see, the problem is, in a truly free market system there would be no such thing as income tax, even the Government would need to provide it's own source of profit, which they did before the income tax was established in 1913.

When you start taxing everyone to pay for Government operations such as food stamps and other types of social welfare, as well as infrastructure funding, etc... that is the moment you have transformed from a true free market system to a socialist system. Obamacare is no different from any other tax, it forcefully takes wealth from everyone who pays taxes and distributes that wealth more evenly.

I can understand why people don't like having to pay these taxes, but the line was crossed a long time ago. If you're really against Obamacare so strongly then you should be against ALL taxes and you should not pay any of your taxes. However it's clear that there are no true free market nations left on this Earth, all of us are living in socialist systems of one degree or another.

I think it will be extremely interesting to wait until a few years after Obamacare is implemented and then see how people are feeling about it. I can guarantee you the only people really complaining will be the rich people, while those who couldn't usually afford good health care now can afford it will be extremely happy it was implemented. It's either every man for him self or everyone helping each other.

It can't be both.