Obamacare: Not Socialized...Corporatized

Indeed, i appreciate a well thought topic, and i concur this is not 'Socialized Medicine'

as you stated, it's merely a way to pay the Machine,

now, i fail to have Health Insurance, Likewise i fail to believe in Western Medicine, so shall the Health Care I'm required to purchase cover Traditional Chinese Medicine? Holistic? Energy Healing Etc?

and if it doesn't, why should i be required to purchase something i fail to utilize?

whilst one may comprehend making it affordable, it should not be Required or Penalized,

Though i digress,


This is not Socialized Medicine

reply to post by Darth_Prime


You bring up a good point.
I wonder if there are going to be religious or otherwise exemptions...

Originally posted by avatard
reply to post by tinfoilman

 

Right on man ! Move with me to another country,,we can get like 25 ATS ers and haul butt...........

Lol yeah that would be awesome, but it's probably just the grass is greener on the other side type thinking with the all the NWO stuff. I'll think I'll wait and see if we make it to 2013 first. Then maybe. Wouldn't wanna waste all that energy moving just to be hit by a comet or something.

reply to post by Kali74
You call call Obamacare a grilled cheese sandwich.

In the end, it's the government taking away our rights to self-determine.

Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by Darth_Prime

 

You bring up a good point.
I wonder if there are going to be religious or otherwise exemptions...

There is something in the PPACA about "RELIGIOUS CONSCIENCE EXEMPTION"

It seems to tie in with the IRS Code ?? But it's confusing.

Religious Conscious Exemptions

There are, however, some healthcare bill exemptions. First, the new law creates a religious conscience exemption for those who are members and faithful adherents of a recognized religious sect or division. The provision may exempt those individuals from the mandatory health insurance purchase requirement if they are members of religions that have established tenets or teachings that bar the “acceptance of the benefits of any private or public insurance.”

The religious conscience exemption is defined as:

RELIGIOUS CONSCIENCE EXEMPTION. – Such term shall not include any individual for any month if such individual has in effect an exemption under section 1311(d)(4)(H) of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act which certifies that such individual is a member of a recognized religious sect of division thereof described in section 1402(g)(l) and an adherent of established tenets or teachings of such sect or division as described in such section.

It must be made clear that personal religious objections do not exempt an individual from the mandate. Therefore, those who do not belong to a denomination with specific bans on insurance, for example, will not be considered exempt from the law.

In addition, the religious conscience healthcare bill exemption does not specifically exempt the members of any one particular religion from the health insurance mandatory purchase requirements.

Also

Health Care Sharing Ministries

The new legislation also provides another type of healthcare bill exemption for those individuals who are members of a Health Care Sharing Ministry. These organizations are in fact the only “organized healthcare concept” that has obtained an exemption from the requirement to purchase health insurance or face a fine.

Health Care Sharing Ministries are defined by the law as an organization that:

Is described in Section 501(c)(3) and is exempt from taxation under Section 501(a);

Has members of which share a common set of ethical or religious beliefs and share medical expenses among members in accordance with those beliefs and without regard to the State in which a member resides or is employed;

Has members of which retain membership even after they develop a medical condition;

Has (or has a predecessor of which) has been in existence at all times since December 31, 1999, and the medical expenses of its members have been shared continuously and without interruption since at least December 31, 1999;

and
Which conducts an annual audit which is performed by an independent certified accounting firm in accordance with generally accepted accounting principles and which is made available to the public upon request.

In essence, Health Care Sharing Ministries provide a cost sharing arrangement for health care among people of similarly held beliefs. They are not-for-profit religious organizations, and they typically do not receive any type of funding from the government.

source01


source02

Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by Rockpuck

 

Personally I would rather there remain elected power over legislation rather than some corporate body having power over legislation.

Too late

reply to post by beezzer


You have a point but, I feel that it is important to identify the path so that we (if we ever get out of this) don't make the same mistakes again. I'm also of the mind that some Socialism is a good thing and it needs to stop being demonized in such an indoctrinated way. There's more to socialism than communism.

reply to post by xuenchen


Thanks for digging into that. I couldn't help the first thing that popped into my mind though (in humor, I don't really think this) which was this is clearly the Jehova Witness agenda in play.

reply to post by Kali74

Obamacare: Not Socialized...Corporatized

I agree.

Here are some examples.

Focusing on the insurance companies ....

They are all under that new 80% - 85% rule already in effect.
(the larger the company, the higher the percentage is)

That means 80-85% of health care premiums must be spent for actual health care, or returned as rebates to patients or employers paying the insurance.

I would say that the larger companies will easily sustain this rule.
(I believe they had lobbyists hard at work during the writing of the PPACA)

The smaller companies won't.

Now we get "consolidation" as the larger companies take over the smaller companies, or the larger companies sell more policies as the smaller companies go out of business. Either way, the larger companies get bigger.

This scenario is similar to the big banks "eliminating" the small banks.

At the same time as this happens, we also see less "resistance" from the insurance companies to healthcare cost increases from the "providers".

The costs go up for actual service and the insurance companies complain less because they must spend the money anyway, and as soon as that 80% - 85% margin is breached, they simply raise the rates to maintain profits.

Insurance is a pyramid scheme.

The ones getting super rich from this is the health provider companies. Most of them are large corporations.

ObamaCare (a.k.a. PPACA) has no provisions for price controls of service (I think).

The very largest insurance companies will be the survivors.

The very largest providers will be the survivors.

Most small companies will be bankrupt.


Looking at "Who Pays"...........

The "taxpayers" do:

a) directly through the "exchanges".

b) semi-directly through your employer.

c) indirectly through the penalty for not having insurance.

The "taxpayers" not only pay for the "collectivism" of healthcare among themselves, the "taxpayers" also fund the non-taxpayers through "subsidies", Medicaid etc. etc.

I worked for bluecross blueshield. I had long talks with actuaries.

the problem isn't who is paying how much, the problem is the amount of claims goes up every year

because of US

WE are to blame

WE want to eat mcdonalds, watch TV, and pop a handful of pills and live to be 100

there is a price for that

almost every ins carrier has the same mix.

85 % of premium to claims
10% of premium to overhead
5% profit

the overhead and profit are fairly constant

the claims keep going up up up

WE have the power to bring it down

ironically, managed care started this in my opinion. instead of 80/20, it as a $5 copay and 5/15/25 prescriptions. the docs were only paid for 3 office visits a year. the idea was the docs would push preventive care, and people would incure less claims. the opposite happened. people took it as a license to live unhealthy and not have to pay more. the docs pushed back on "capitated managed care" payments, and now they get paid for every office visit, so they don't push healthy lifestyles anymore

now because of the drastic rise on Rx claims and health problems related to smoking, salt and obesity, its $30 copay , $1,500 deductible and 15/30/45 prescriptions

the 5% profit has always remained constant

it's the claims driving the costs

it's US

you can't legislate that away. you can't blame illegal immigrants. want to see the villian ?

look in the mirror