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Obamacare: Not Socialized...Corporatized

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posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 07:59 AM
In countries that have true socialized medicine, doctors, nurses and other health care workers are employees of government and hospitals are property of government such as in the UK's National Health Service

The National Health Service (NHS) is the shared name of three of the four publicly funded healthcare systems in the United Kingdom. The systems are primarily funded through general taxation rather than requiring insurance payments. They provide a comprehensive range of health services, the vast majority of which are free at the point of use to residents of the United Kingdom.

People will see the word TAX and say, "See, they are the same thing.", but they are very different. In the UK, health care is a general tax, the collected taxes are funneled directly into hospitals, medical equipment and health care worker paychecks. Our hospitals, clinics, medical equipment suppliers, doctors etc... will remain private and for profit.

In our relatively new system and with the SCOTUS ruling yesterday, we will not be paying a tax. We will be buying a health insurance plan from a health insurance company (corporation). Failure to buy health insurance, unless a person qualifies for Medicaid/Medicare, will result in a tax penalty. In other words you either spend your money paying a corporation for your health care or you will be punished by the government for not doing so. Most people will opt to get something for their money. This is very clearly Corporatism. It benefits the Health Care Industry Corporations first and foremost.

Now to give a minuscule amount of credit to the government, this health care Bill will cut our deficit. Requiring everyone to be insured cuts down on unpaid medical bills that ultimately the government subsidizes the private health care system for or doles in grants to non profit hospitals/clinics.

Federal, state, and local governments provide substantial subsidies to so-called "safety-net" hospitals, in part, to offset the loss in revenue associated with providing a disproportionate share (DSH) of care to low-income and uninsured patients, with the goal to improve access to care for uninsured and ensure affordable care for them.


What we've had is total obfuscation from both party's since the beginning of all this.

We've had the Democrats calling out big bad Pharma, Insurance etc as gauging people and being unfair in their denial of basic human needs, boo hoo waaahhh, all the while cutting deals with said bad guys and giving them exactly what they want while pandering to Liberals and to the Left.

We've had Republicans screaming Socialism and throwing hissy fits all over the place all the while making the same deals the Democrats did and using such histrionics to pander to the Right, knowing full well the American version of Capitalism was perfectly in tact.

edit on 29-6-2012 by Kali74 because: (no reason given)

posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 08:32 AM
Here's a glimpse of not a government but, corporate grab for power. Government in it's new apparent role will be facilitator not to the people but to corporations.

The Independent Payment Advisory Board PPACA’s Anti-Constitutional and Authoritarian Super-Legislature
by Diane Cohen and Michael F. Cannon

When a member of Congress introduces legislation, the Constitution requires that legislative proposal to secure the approval of the House of Representatives, the Senate, and the president (unless Congress overrides a presidential veto) before it can become law. In all cases, either chamber of Congress may block it.

In 2010, the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (PPACA) created the Independent Payment Advisory Board, or IPAB. When the unelected government officials on this board submit a legislative proposal to Congress, it automatically becomes law: PPACA requires the Secretary of Health and Human Services to implement it. Blocking an IPAB “proposal” requires at a minimum that the House and the Senate and the president agree on a substitute. The Board’s edicts therefore can become law without congressional action, congressional approval, meaningful congressional oversight, or being subject to a presidential veto. Citizens will have no power to challenge IPAB’s edicts in court.

Worse, PPACA forbids Congress from repealing IPAB outside of a seven-month window in the year 2017, and even then requires a threefifths majority in both chambers. A heretofore unreported feature of PPACA dictates that if Congress misses that repeal window, PPACA prohibits Congress from ever altering an IPAB “proposal.” By restricting lawmaking powers of future Congresses, PPACA thus attempts to amend the Constitution by statute.

IPAB’s unelected members will have effectively unfettered power to impose taxes and ration care for all Americans, whether the government pays their medical bills or not. In some circumstances, just one political party or even one individual would have full command of IPAB’s lawmaking powers. IPAB truly is independent, but in the worst sense of the word. It wields power independent of Congress, independent of the president, independent of the judiciary, and independent of the will of the people.

The creation of IPAB is an admission that the federal government’s efforts to plan America’s health care sector have failed. It is proof of the axiom that government control of the economy threatens democracy.

IPAB may be the most anti-constitutional measure ever to pass Congress, and it is therefore tempting to dismiss IPAB as an absurdity that the body politic will soon reject. Until that occurs, IPAB will potentially empower just one unelected government official to impose any tax or regulation, to appropriate funds, and to wield other lawmaking powers.


Nothing short of Fascism.

posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 08:38 AM
reply to post by Kali74

America is not longer run by the people it has been a corporate dictatorship for quite some time, the danger is that they get to make laws and we are forced to obey.

posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 08:40 AM
reply to post by Kali74

I wouldn't mind a system like the UK (or Ireland) that have public funded healthcare and hospitals/clinics and then private hospitals and insurance for those that want a different service. IMO that's all about choice. Like I went to a private school when I was little, my parents paid for public school too, but wanted us to have a better education. Likewise I'd probably still buy insurance to have better care at a private hospital, but see nothing wrong with providing healthcare to the people.

I don't however support Fascism.
"Public Options" or "Single Payer" or any other insurance scam is just that: A scam.

posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 08:44 AM
Well put, Kali. I know you're an OWS supporter, but many, many OWS supporters were working hard for Obamacare's success. Now it has, and their rants about Wall Street was just brought to fruition. Wall Street now owns our bodies.

And the roots of fascism grow deeper.


posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 08:47 AM
reply to post by Rockpuck

You're right, essentially. However, there is no real difference in health care options between public and private. The same technology is available to bought, the same education is available to people wanting to be doctors, nurses, administration etc. We pay for it one way or another as a population, it's simply a matter of how. Personally I would rather there remain elected power over legislation rather than some corporate body having power over legislation.

posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 08:47 AM
The New World Order ? UN Agenda 21 is all about privatization of everything . Our water is privatized .Imagine that , water that I pump out of the ground some one else owns . Who ? I don't know . We will live in Socialist world where we own nothing and are CHATTEL for some Feudal Lord probably named Rockefeller . We will have to submit to it's government , use it's money only after denying Jesus and pledging to this Satanic leadership . It's portrayed in the bible to be the time of Great Tribulation whether you do or do not subscribe to the biblical prophecy . It's there .

posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 08:49 AM
The democrat party has become everything they claimed the republicans were back in the 1970s. The democrats were correct back then and why I was a democrat at that time. Now that both parties have unvieled themselves as corporatists there is nowhere left to go since 90% of the population still are too lazy to pull back the curtain on the TWO wizards of Oz. Not enough Dorothys so my vote matters not one bit.
edit on 29-6-2012 by tkwasny because: typo fix

posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 08:50 AM
reply to post by The Old American

No we don't actually. There may be some supporters who can't recognize that this is NOT socialized medicine... but there is more of us who recognize it and Obama, for that matter the rest of our government... as Fascist, and we try very hard to get that message out but it is difficult when we are constantly labeled as a Democrat Party play toy or people can't get over the fact that one mentally ill person took a poop on a cop car.

posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 08:53 AM
reply to post by Kali74

Sadly in America when congress is open for business they are like whores parading their goods to the lobbyist pimps that offers them the higher bid for those goods, the goods are the ones that ends screwing the tax payer and the public in general.

Thats what goes on in Americas politics now a days, we got whores politicians that cater to their pimps big businesses.

Soon after the Supreme court ruling Obama whore was already selling his good to the big pimps in pharma and healthcare industry behind closed doors

The worst is the billions been poured on campaign for the favors.

The losers were the medical association that didn't got a seat at the table with the whores and the other pimps.

posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 08:55 AM
I dont get why insurance gouging hasnt been dealt with.

When a procedure out of pocket costs a third of what insurance would be charged something is wrong.

Seems like if we wanted to reduce costs and premiums fixing this horribly corrupt practice would be a simple and effective measure.

All afternoon yesterday NPR was interviewing insurance executives and every one of them said premiums are going up regardless year after year for the foreseeable future. A few of them said "innovation" was going to keep them low but not one had any clues as to what this mythical "innovation" was or where it would come from.

Simple fix. End the practice of healthcare providers billing insurance companies three times what they would bill a cash customer. That goes for all insurance. A hearing aid out of pocket was going to be either $200 cash or $1100 by insurance. Some pulled wisdom teeth were going to be either $500 cash that afternoon or a weekend hospital stay totaling $3000 to the insurance company.

That # is seriously messed up.

posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 08:58 AM
OP obviously hate helping poor people.

It's called the affordable health care act, that means Obama is making health care affordable for everyone.

You just don't like the govt helping people do you?

edit on 29-6-2012 by Rockdisjoint because: (no reason given)

posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 09:13 AM

Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by The Old American

No we don't actually. There may be some supporters who can't recognize that this is NOT socialized medicine... but there is more of us who recognize it and Obama, for that matter the rest of our government... as Fascist, and we try very hard to get that message out but it is difficult when we are constantly labeled as a Democrat Party play toy or people can't get over the fact that one mentally ill person took a poop on a cop car.

with the citizens united case from the supreme court now in play...the amount of corporate and wealthy "monies" going to the republican campaigns in this country will, within a few election cycles, eliminate the democratic party. there will over time, be nothing left of any type of socialized anything...
the NRA got 20 democrats to change their vote on the healthcare bill, because of their threat to pour money into the candidates defeat. wait till the corporate money really gets geared up in the upcoming medicare, no minimum wage, no educational money, no healthcare money, no OSHA, no FDA, no EPA, no taxes on investors only workers which taxes will go to funding the military, we will devolve back into a fuedal system with corporations being our new "kings" ...........and you're worried about Obama? please...think more than the next 4 years into the future.
edit on 29-6-2012 by jimmyx because: spell

posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 09:14 AM
reply to post by Kali74

I don't really think the bill is constitutional but whatever.

But in my opinion it violates the first amendment because if I want to stand up and protest the bill and not buy into it, I can't. I get penalized for protesting it. I literally can't use the protest power of the wallet.

It violates my right to privacy because now I can't just be some random guy living in the hills or something. Now I have to go fill out mounds of paper work about every aspect of my life, where I work, sex, SSN, and all that and hand it over to some insurance company's database.

And forget about the pursuit of happiness. If the gov can force you to buy stuff what's next? Why stop there? Why not fix the housing crisis? Just FORCE everyone to buy a new house!

How am I going to pursue any happiness when the government tells me what I can and can't spend my money on? There goes that also. But whatever, the people haven't cared about the Constitution in a long while. As long as they get what they think they want. It was on its death bed for a long time and NDAA was its death blow. Sorry, there are no more rights. It's a dead document that 99% don't care about as long as their color wins the election. That's just the way it is. You get the gov you deserve, yada, yada.

But there's an even more important issue here that I think most people are missing. It shows how retarded our politicians are and how we should probably not be listening to them. Why? Because they're so dumb they called the fine a FINE!

Any politician with half a brain would have called it a TAX DEDUCTION! Even though it's not a tax deduction. But we have all kinds of tax deductions. They could have worded it like, oh taxes are going up to pay for the new health care bill, but if you buy insurance you will be given a better tax deduction. Just like people get tax deductions for that kind of thing now plus mortgages and babies, and whatever else. It's just the numbers would change.

And morons would say YAY! Not only is Obama fixing the health care system, but he's giving us tax breaks to help us pay for our insurance! YAY! And there would be parties in the street.

But they didn't do that. Instead they threaten to fine people for not buying insurance. They are morons.
edit on 29-6-2012 by tinfoilman because: (no reason given)

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posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 09:28 AM
reply to post by jimmyx

I'm worried about any Democrat or Republican in any office. It's time to tell both party's we're done with them, they've made their millions and billions now they can go and leave us with the task of fixing their mess.

posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 11:00 AM
reply to post by Rockdisjoint

The poor people ? How about the old poor people . The Obama care for them is based on the usless eater evaluation usefulness to the corporate bunch . If you are old and poor your options for health care are reduced with the NWO plan . All other insurance plans are going to be discontinued for the Obumer plan .

posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 05:34 PM

Originally posted by The Old American
many, many OWS supporters were working hard for Obamacare's success.

Citation needed.

posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 06:22 PM
This is the open secret about Obama Care. I liken this to car insurance where there insurance is mandatory to have the insurance guaranteeing the companies customers and a closed market where you can not opt out!

I still can't believe the sheeples have not seen this... remember Medicare part D prescription coverage where the insurance send you a capped bill of about $50 ? Then the government turns around and pays the companies 100 percent of the cost of the program? Most people don't realize that insurance payment is actually a hidden tax! Then what the government is doing is paying the insurance companies for something they are already required to do under law... pathetic!

posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 08:48 PM
Socialized medicine is FREE............Obamacare forcing us to buy health insurance AINT FREE.........Obama is just doing to the rest of the U.S. what Romney did to Mass....forcing them to buy health insuranced,,kinda unconstitutional

posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 08:51 PM
reply to post by tinfoilman

Right on man ! Move with me to another country,,we can get like 25 ATS ers and haul butt...........

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