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Businesses: What layoffs do you plan due to Obamacare?

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posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 10:16 AM
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Sounds like some of you need to start you own businesses and find out what it takes to operate one with a profit.

For every dollar I pay you, I pay four more in matching contributions. Then add the cost of doing business and see what's left.

It's tough to keep the doors open when you pay for two weeks paid vacation, paid sick days, paid holidays, etc... Do you REALLY think you do enough at work to justify all that? I know everyone thinks they really bust a$$ at work, but honestly, do you?

How many phone calls do you take while at work? Do you text message? BS with other employees? Go at an easy pace because it's hot or cold? Do you talk to venders? Check your E-mail? Get on ATS or face book?

Out of an eight hour work day, how many hours do you REALLY put in? Honestly.

I have seven employees and they are paid well. They all like working here and would hate to leave. But at the end of the day, all they care about is getting a paycheck. They sure don't care about the sacrifices I have to make to keep the place open. They don't care that I'm here working hours before they get here, or that I'm here working hours after they leave. They don't care I work every weekend, holiday, birthday, etc... They simply want their 8-5, five days a week job and their checks.

The vast majority of the work force doesn't give a damn about who they work for. They simply go to work and put in their mediocre eight hours and go home, thinking the company is making a KILLING off their "hard" work and how they deserve so much more.




posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 10:24 AM
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Originally posted by spyder550

Originally posted by TheTardis

Originally posted by spyder550

Originally posted by TheTardis
My mother works for a small insurance company that is locally owned. They provide auto, home, life and health. She said they are VERY worried because it is a big chunk of their business that is going to be gone. These are real people that are going to be hurt by this bill. Not large corporations as a lot of people would like us to believe. This trickles down to the average person in average towns.


It is not a problem for you with off shoring labor, or manufacturing, or software programing. Things change, things evolve - this was a 100 years in the making. The healthcare bill does not cut out insurance companies-not certain how it will affect the brokerages. The very act of setting up insurance exchanges in the states, will create new jobs in the insurance industry.

I got my start in computers with LEON's Typewriter repair in Rochester New York. I wonder how the Typewriter repair business is in Rochester. On the other hand I went from Typewriters to Senior Network Engineer. Like I said things do change.
edit on 29-6-2012 by spyder550 because: (no reason given)


Ahh... But that is where you are wrong. I am in the same industry and use to work with a tech that started on Typewriters and moved up. That is "Evolving" not "Change". Obama is trying to "Change" the industry which will hurt a lot of people. If it were allowed to "Evolve" the people and businesses could "Evolve" with it just as you were allowed to do. We needed some reform. Not a complete Change.


So what is the agent of evolution? Right now the whole medical industry / insurance complex is eating us alive. All the while providing us with more cost and decreasing care.

We now have a program that does cater to the private interests in this industry. Modeled much like many of the Scandinavian countries. I think the insurance companies should be taken out of the loop completely -- they are expensive overhead, and have no incentive whatsoever in controlling costs.

Doing nothing would be very costly to the nation as a whole -- that is an argument that anyone who understands the problem will not contest. To do nothing and just pretend the system that we created will fix itself - is truly idiotic.

Most bankruptcy in the US are caused by medical debt. What about those families, how long do they have to wait for evolution. What is the travesty in telling kids who has had asthma all through childhood that they can actually get insurance now even though they have a controlled pre-existing condition. How is it bad to tax freeloaders who would not bother with insurance because they know that they won't be turned down at the hospital.

I was shocked at the cost of a stay in the hospital I had a couple of weeks ago. 4 days in ICU for pain control 3 days in hospital for observation. I had a ladder fail and broke 5 ribs. I did not plan for that to happen it was a 100% accident. The cost 33,000.00 I'm lucky I have and employer who provides insurance. There is no treatment or surgery or therapy for broken ribs so the 33,000.00 was probably on the low side of a visit to the hospital for an accident.

I am sorry for people who are affected businesswise - but everyone has a story and everyone has legitimate needs.

This change is how things evolve, and it is long overdue.


Again. I didnt say we needed to just do nothing. We need some regulation put on costs. We need a lot less red tape from the FDA because that alone is what drives the price of drugs through the roof and there needs to be TON less frivolous lawsuits and malpractice suits. Malpractice insurance needs to be cheaper for doctors. There is a litany of things that need changed. But they are things that need CHANGED. The problem is that ObamaCare doesnt necessarily change those things if any. It is just another redistribution of wealth plan with a fancy name on it. Yes it does address a few things that are good. But for the most part it is not fixing the problems. Where does it address the FDA? Or the Lawsuits? Or the rising salaries of Doctors? And the Lawyers that make money off these stupid lawsuits?



posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 10:27 AM
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reply to post by KawRider9
 


You are a hundred percent right and when they get sick you just have to drag them out to the edge of the parking lot and hire someone else. Some of us come from a time when that wasn't the prevailing attitude of an employer. You can only expect an employee to treat your relationship with them as you treat your relationship with them.

I am curious why the idea of helthcare bothers you so much - at you side there will be government incentives to do the right thing even if you can't see the benefit in having healthy less stressed workers. If you are at less than 50 employees then there is a lot of slack cut for the employer and if you are at 50 or better you should be grossing at least 10 million and you should be providing insurance anyhow.



posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 10:37 AM
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Originally posted by spyder550


I am curious why the idea of helthcare bothers you so much - at you side there will be government incentives to do the right thing even if you can't see the benefit in having healthy less stressed workers. If you are at less than 50 employees then there is a lot of slack cut for the employer and if you are at 50 or better you should be grossing at least 10 million and you should be providing insurance anyhow.


I'm curious how much revenue the business you own brings in. Since you speak with such authority on the topic, you must own a business correct?

Since you have no problem telling business owners what they SHOULD be doing, one can assume you are leading by example right?



posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 01:19 PM
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reply to post by FreeFromTheHerd
 


In 60 years I have been through a few startups some even in the medical field. Lost my shirt once or twice -- lost someone else' shirt a couple of times. Been in IT for years -- you don't think IT people see things. This isn't my first rodeo. Lived on 60 to 80 foot boats for twenty years -- so my circle of drinking buddies is pretty comprehensive when it comes to small business owners.

The number of employees are important because the bill is actually pretty favorable to small business.

I'm surprised as a business owner you haven't read how this bill affects you.


edit on 29-6-2012 by spyder550 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 01:41 PM
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Originally posted by spyder550


The number of employees are important because the bill is actually pretty favorable to small business.

I'm surprised as a business owner you haven't read how this bill affects you.


edit on 29-6-2012 by spyder550 because: (no reason given)


I have read every part of the bill that does affect me.

My issue is that you said this:




If you are at less than 50 employees then there is a lot of slack cut for the employer and if you are at 50 or better you should be grossing at least 10 million and you should be providing insurance anyhow


Specifically, the line where you state what he should be doing.

Since you have admitted you failed multiple times in business, perhaps you shouldn't be offering business advice to anyone on any topic.

You have already proven you cannot do it.

Failures are the last people who should be telling others what they should be doing, especially when it comes to peoples own money.



posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 01:49 PM
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Failure and success are the nature of business.

I'm curious what is your solution to the problem??
edit on 29-6-2012 by spyder550 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 01:56 PM
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This is essentially saying that my employees are beneath me because I own the business. You are saying your employees aren't worth a damn and that somehow you worked harder than them to get where you are.
Yes i took the risk spent time in college planned invested to make it work so yes I earned what i have as they have earned what they have.
Show respect for your employees. You have the right to hire the best employees you can get, people whom you respect and people who have skills and talents. By all means, hire them. And respect their talents and pay them enough to get by and take care of their families.

I do i have 4 spanish employees that do more that the combined work of 20 of their american counterparts.

This means taking some profits out of your pocket to help the good of your business. Not to mention employees who are taken care of produce more and produce higher quality goods and services, therefore you are investing in your business. Why do you think that the American car companies failed?
paying union employees 40 dollars an hour to push a broom does not constitute cheap labor. They chose cheap labor and cheap materials to build cheap cars that no one wanted because the owners of the company were looking for the cheapest possible bottom line. Now they're out of business. You'd think we would have learned the lessons that these companies have made.
American cars are out do you think many of the foreign car manufacturers pay their employees more?

I am not "left". I'm not anything. I'm an independent. I vote for a candidate not based upon their party but based upon their policy.
edit on 29-6-2012 by Wooster because: (no reason given)

I too am independent however i do know making it not worth the risk of starting a small business a anti-american move that will grow the unemployment rate.

Ask yourself this to maintain a profit "which is the reason i started a business with the sweat and long hours off my back" you think small businesses will compete against corporations by giving more to their employees?



posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 02:08 PM
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reply to post by spyder550
 


The solution is less government interference in healthcare. More governmental involvement in anything has never proven beneficial, especially those they have no Constitutional authority to be in or regulate.

The list of reasons why the healthcare industry is so screwed up here is way too long to list in a single post, but the main issues are insurance companies overcharging, doctors being forced to defend themselves against frivolous lawsuits, thereby causing their costs to go up which naturally get passed on to the consumer. Illegal aliens cause a tremendous strain on hospitals, that needs to end immediately.

A narrower, community wide approach to healthcare would be a good place to start, Whats to stop you and your neighbors from getting together and approaching a local doctor and working out a plan to pay cash at a reduced rate for your regular office visits thereby negating the need for the doctor to go through the ordeal of paying office staff whose only job is to process ludicrous amounts of insurance and governmental paperwork?

Naturally insurance will be required for catastrophic and long term hospitalization, but that is something that should be worked out at the state government level, not the feds.

The federal government is nothing but a gigantic cesspool of failure.

I do not have all of the answers to the healthcare situation in this country, hell I dont have anything more than ideas. But I do know one thing for sure: Involving the government more is NEVER a good idea, and it is NEVER beneficial to we the people.
edit on 29-6-2012 by FreeFromTheHerd because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 02:11 PM
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Originally posted by Wooster
I understand businesses are out for a profit, but part of this is YOUR fault.

You didn't pay employees enough to afford health care. You are more interested in hiring the cheapest labor possible for a bottom line of TOTAL SALE. This is why our labor markets are now overseas, and unemployment is so high. This is why we needed health care reform- you business owners were not offering your employees comprehensive packages in the first place. You weren't paying decent salaries, and you weren't investing in your businesses, just consuming and making a profit.



Let me start by saying I'm not a business owner. I agree with some of what your saying. There are a large amount of employers that pay their employees the bare minimum. I would say this is particularly true of many larger corporations.

However, many small businesses can't afford to pay any more, and they seem to be the people that will be most affected by this. The large corporations won't have a problem passing these costs on to their employees or customers, they can afford it, especially if there is less local competition from small businesses.

My question to you is why isn't the health industry a business too? You critcize other businesses for just wanting profits, but in reality the entire health industry is raking in money hand over foot and charge huge over charges:


What is the appropriate word to use when you find out that the top executive at the third largest health insurance company in America raked in 68.7 million dollars in 2010? How is one supposed to respond when one learns that more than two dozen pharmaceutical companies make over a billion dollars in profits each year? Is it okay to get angry when you discover that over 90 percent of all hospital bills contain "gross overcharges"?


endoftheamericandream.com...

or www.businessinsider.com...

So other businesses are to just take it on the chin and pay more for healthcare for there employees according to you, and meanwhile the greedy health industry will just charge more. Now we have a law meaning we all have to buy their product, so the real wrong doers get rewarded again. It just doesn't make sense.



posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 02:15 PM
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This is a good example of what the problem is

www.forbes.com...

And how it affects businesses under 50 -- there more technical analysis more freely available

www.boston.com...

Just to keep things fair and balanced

factcheck.org...

By the way you will find malpractice is less than 1% of all of the industries growth. My dad was a doctor I grew up with doctors -- there are bigger share than you think that shouldn't be doctoring - the doctors and staff know who those guys are -- they won't tell you though.

With that I am out of here will be at anchor till after the holiday
edit on 29-6-2012 by spyder550 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 02:38 PM
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I dont understand why these 'successful' business owner that know 'how to run' a profitable company are complaining. These new taxes are now just the cost of doing business. You need to find a way adjust and stay competetive. Isnt that how the system works? If you cant make it work dont you deserve to go out of business? Isnt that how capitalism works? Isnt that how we seperate the innovators from the duds?


 
Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com
 



posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 11:49 PM
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Originally posted by acmpnsfal
I dont understand why these 'successful' business owner that know 'how to run' a profitable company are complaining. These new taxes are now just the cost of doing business. You need to find a way adjust and stay competetive. Isnt that how the system works? If you cant make it work dont you deserve to go out of business? Isnt that how capitalism works? Isnt that how we seperate the innovators from the duds?


 
Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com
 


By golly your right if the system worked that was we would all be working for Walmart and eating at McDonald or vice versa. Look at the unemployment rate go up. Its from over-burdensome regulations, unions, and China..



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 12:09 AM
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reply to post by Dbriefed
 


"Businesses: What layoffs do you plan due to Obamacare?"

Obamacare won't affect my business. I'll just hire illegals that want to work and lay off the slackers that think they are doing me a favor by just hanging around.

This was sarcasm of course but it's what many service businesses will do and are doing right now.

We had a chance to fix health care with a single payer plan but the GOP screwed the American taxpayer once again with their obstructionism.






edit on 30-6-2012 by olaru12 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 12:32 AM
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I'm not going to have to lay anyone off because I do all of the work myself. I tried hiring people but it's not as easy as it sounds. Some of them couldn't be bothered to call me back for weeks, some said I wasn't paying enough (I was offering twice what I started at for the same work, minus the advertising, client relations etc). I told them to go to hell, they came back weeks later asking me for work because they couldn't find any. Screw 'em, I'll do 100% of the work and take 100% of the profits.

The bottom line, however, is that neither the employers nor the employees are at fault, it's the medical industry.

My wife and I went in for eye exams, the advertised price was for about $50 each. We both got the exams and the prescriptions. When we went to pay they found out we were going to pay with insurance. The cost of each exam then tripled. They didn't do any more work than they did for anyone else. It's just that the exam somehow costs that much more if you're paying with insurance. If we we to pay in cash then the exam would be about $50.

What made me even more irate was that no one else seemed to be surprised by this when I told them about it.

The medical industry and the insurance industry are in collusion. Just look at other countries, most of their best doctors leave and come to the US because they will make ten times as much money for the same procedures. The only reason a fairly routine procedure in the US can cost thousands upon thousands of dollars is because the insurance companies allow it. This is why socialized medicine will never happen in the US, there's too much money to be made on either end.

To be complexly honest, I'm not even sure why it's the employer's responsibility to provide health care. I understand that it can be an incentive to work for that company but it's gotten to where people expect and demand that an employer pay for health insurance.



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 12:44 AM
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reply to post by Wooster
 

hahahahaha, i almost starred this post until you went here ...

You want a real business model that promotes equality for all and turns out a great profit in the end because of HIGH QUALITY labor and HIGH QUALITY products?
Look at Porsche
are you joking ??
how does Porsche (any of its entities) qualify as a small business ?

while i am not dissing their business model, how would you propose a business of say 55 ppl achieve similar?
( layoff 6 ? )



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 01:06 AM
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reply to post by spyder550
 
boy is this a misleading story.

I was shocked at the cost of a stay in the hospital I had a couple of weeks ago. 4 days in ICU for pain control 3 days in hospital for observation. I had a ladder fail and broke 5 ribs. I did not plan for that to happen it was a 100% accident. The cost 33,000.00 I'm lucky I have and employer who provides insurance. There is no treatment or surgery or therapy for broken ribs so the 33,000.00 was probably on the low side of a visit to the hospital for an accident.
first, i am sorry to hear about your accident and i do hope your recovery is within reach


so, after falling and receiving an injury that was ... not "treatable" (your own words) by any standard, modern methods available today, you vaguely mention ICU but don't indicate if it was "monitoring" or medically necessary. any particular reason ?
(just pain control or did you puncture a lung or something more than the ribs?)

i'm glad you have insurance but you are mistaken that the $33,000 was "probably on the low side" of the visit.

if any other (without insurance) received similar injury (no punctured lung or anything) and was treated at the hospital, the truth that "the injury was not treatable by any standard, modern methods available today" would prevail and have been employed.
after stabilizing the injury, the patient would be sent on their way with a bill about 90% less of your charges.



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 12:08 PM
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Originally posted by acmpnsfal
I dont understand why these 'successful' business owner that know 'how to run' a profitable company are complaining. These new taxes are now just the cost of doing business. You need to find a way adjust and stay competetive. Isnt that how the system works? If you cant make it work dont you deserve to go out of business? Isnt that how capitalism works? Isnt that how we seperate the innovators from the duds?


 
Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com
 


Sure. Either increase the cost of the product or service, until people stop buying, or cut costs further including reduction in force or reduce hiring plans. Small businesses operate on cash, often month-to-month. If projected costs increase for the next month, or projected income decreases for the next month, guess what? You get 30 days notice, or you have to cover the work you expected extra hands to handle.

According to Forbes (story) the cost of healthcare insurance will rise 19-47%. Average annual employee healthcare cost is $5,000. Business covers half the cost, and say you have magic number of 50 employees, so business has a bil of $125,000 to pay. A worst case increase of 47% would mean the bill goes to $183,750 per year. Employees also would see their annual healthcare deduction from their paycheck go from $2,500 and add $1,175 to $3,676.

So a business needs to either raise revenue by $58,750 just to stay in place (no growth, no increased profit), while employees have to figure out how to deal with lower take home pay (raises?).



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 12:44 PM
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Like businesses were running on a surplus of hands. Sure, there are those gentle souls, who hire when they dont really need to, but most businesses run on what they absolutely need. If a business cuts below that, its going to lose buisness.

The better question would be to ask what business is going to go belly up. Another danger is of course the increase in illegal activity on the part of business owners ("under the table" work etc. ).

The guy who holds open the hand for rent now, no longer can say "then do without health care coverage, what do I care" .


Originally posted by Wooster
I understand businesses are out for a profit, but part of this is YOUR fault.

You didn't pay employees enough to afford health care. You are more interested in hiring the cheapest labor possible for a bottom line of TOTAL SALE. This is why our labor markets are now overseas, and unemployment is so high. This is why we needed health care reform- you business owners were not offering your employees comprehensive packages in the first place. You weren't paying decent salaries, and you weren't investing in your businesses, just consuming and making a profit.


Because the consumer will pay more if he can. Thats why the screaming and kicking like a spoiled child against zhe evil socialist goverment intervention is no use. Without it, its a race to the bottom until you either can offer high quality products, or compete with the Indians which earn barely to eat and still have to sleep on the street after a 16 hour shift.

We need a legal framework that protects the worker, because BOTH are not keen on parting with their money, the provider and the costumer. Of course while the provider has to exploit where he can legally, or watch somebody else do it in his place, he still tries to pass as little of any savings he can make on to the customer.

But still next time you are looking for a bargain, think about the high price we pay for low low prices, or high profits if you invest in companies like apple.
edit on 30-6-2012 by Cassius666 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 07:22 AM
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Originally posted by Shaiker
Originally posted by acmpnsfal
I dont understand why these 'successful' business owner that know 'how to run' a profitable company are complaining. These new taxes are now just the cost of doing business. You need to find a way adjust and stay competetive. Isnt that how the system works? If you cant make it work dont you deserve to go out of business? Isnt that how capitalism works? Isnt that how we seperate the innovators from the duds?


 
Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com
 


By golly your right if the system worked that was we would all be working for Walmart and eating at McDonald or vice versa. Look at the unemployment rate go up. Its from over-burdensome regulations, unions, and China..


No, the unemployment rate does not go up, because the cost of business increases, its because businesses are losing business. The unemployment rate goes up when the consumer is squeezed by inflation, rising costs and a fixed salary. If you have a working business model and the cost of doing business increases, you will wail and moan and bitch that you make less money, but you still do a lot of money and you wont fire anybody either, because it will hurt your business and you will still be better off than slinging burgers.

I admit it might bite startups in the rear end who did not calculate for having to cover healthcare so soon.
edit on 1-7-2012 by Cassius666 because: (no reason given)




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