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Obamacare SCOTUS Ruling: Has there ever been a tax on NOT doing something?

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posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 09:31 PM
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Originally posted by crankyoldman
If I never use a doctor, why is it your problem? If none of the "healthcare" I use is covered, what am I paying for?


Can you tell me how you know you will never be the victim of an accident like getting hit by a car? I want to be able to do that too.




posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 09:31 PM
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How about a tax on NOT going to the gym?


Please! Don't give Michelle O any ideas.



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 11:26 PM
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Still nothing?

Nobody can think of an example of people being taxed on NOT taking an action?



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 11:31 PM
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Originally posted by UltimateSkeptic1
Still nothing?

Nobody can think of an example of people being taxed on NOT taking an action?


Well, I havent really given it much thought but the only instance that I can think of that could technically qualify is that when you fail to pay your taxes on time or not at all, you get taxed even more, in the form of interest.
'sall i got



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 11:33 PM
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reply to post by UltimateSkeptic1
 


Sure,

You are taxed on Social Security every week. Have you seen a dime from it?

You are taxed on your home if you own one. Have you seen any improvements on your street due to it? I haven't in 7 years.

You are taxed on food every time you buy a piece of food. What have you gotten out of it?

You are taxed on your internet connection right now. Have you seen a dramatic increase in your broadband? I haven't in 7 years.

The list goes on and on



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 11:35 PM
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One thing I have come to learn about our world is maybe when you die you finally tell yourself I don't have to live in this nightmare anymore. I am not a suicidal person just saying.



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 11:48 PM
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Originally posted by TWISTEDWORDS
reply to post by UltimateSkeptic1
 


Sure,

You are taxed on Social Security every week. Have you seen a dime from it?

You are taxed on your home if you own one. Have you seen any improvements on your street due to it? I haven't in 7 years.

You are taxed on food every time you buy a piece of food. What have you gotten out of it?

You are taxed on your internet connection right now. Have you seen a dramatic increase in your broadband? I haven't in 7 years.

The list goes on and on


Those are all examples of taxes on actions you've taken. I'm not talking about getting something out of it. I'm talking about being taxed on inaction.

You had to buy your internet connection. You had to buy your home. Your SS tax is taken from your wages. You buy your food.

Are there any examples of being taxed on NOT taking an action? How about any taxes on NOT buying a product?

The reason I ask is because there seems to be something very sinister and draconian about the Congress passing laws to tax somebody on not taking an action. It's the equivalent of holding a gun to their head and forcing action.



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 11:55 PM
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reply to post by UltimateSkeptic1
 


Then the answer to your question since you clarified it is "NO". This is what pisses me off to no end about this.



posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 12:13 AM
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Has there ever been a tax on NOT doing something?


Does it matter?

There is no law that says that Government can only do things they have previously done in the past.



posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 04:47 AM
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Originally posted by UltimateSkeptic1
Still nothing?

Nobody can think of an example of people being taxed on NOT taking an action?


Actually I had something.
I even posted it.



posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 12:13 PM
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Originally posted by UltimateSkeptic1

Originally posted by g2v12

Originally posted by UltimateSkeptic1

Originally posted by shaluach
reply to post by Juggernog
 


Do you make less than 250K and/or have your own insurance from the company you work for? If yes to either then you won't have to purchase health care or be taxed.


Your replies have nothing to do with the topic of this thread. This is not a debate on the merits, or lack thereof, of Obamacare.

Judge Roberts' ruling was based on the premise that the ACA mandate is actually a tax, and that Congress has powers to tax.

The topic of this thread is simple: do you know of any other taxes levied on people for NOT doing something?



Congress had the power to tax us on all of the welfare subsidies, unemployment, food stamps, aid to children, even abortion is paid by my tax. Not sure what the big fuss is all about.


Those are taxes to subsidize other people's lack of action.

My question still stands: has there ever been an individual tax levied on people for NOT taking some sort of action?



Its conceptualized as a 'penalty' for not purchasing a 'service'. The Supreme Court states that this penalty, intended to provide health care to those who can't afford it, and have it paid for by those who can , amounts to the same thing as having everyone taxed for another social program.

Its not a matter of being taxed for not taking action. How does your sentence address the entire context of the bill?

Your thread apparently doesn't properly address the broader scope of this bill. Who cares if its never been done? The point is, the methodology amounts to programs that everyone has benefited from since Pres. Teddy Roosevelt.

If you are asking,"does the means justify the end?", I would have to say NO as a middle class Republican wage earner, because this group likes to keep people where they are (wealthy and poor respectively).

Nevertheless, I am a low income wage earner and have suffered physical and mental anguish as the result of having no health insurance and no viable options through employers.

People who challenge judicial rulings that have been thoroughly screened for legality and constitutionality are basically disconnected with the national interests of democratic society.





edit on 29-6-2012 by g2v12 because: arrangement



posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 12:21 PM
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Originally posted by OutKast Searcher

Has there ever been a tax on NOT doing something?


Does it matter?

There is no law that says that Government can only do things they have previously done in the past.


Of course it matters.

Until now the tax code has been used for social engineering based on rewarding or penalizing actions, not forcing people to buy products or services at gunpoint.

I'm 100% certain that the American public does not want a Draconian government that forces them to buy any product or service at gunpoint. Failure to buy insurance results in a tax. Failure to pay the tax results in the IRS confiscating your money. Failure to comply with the IRS will ultimately result in arrests. Failure to comply with arrests will result in federal agents with guns showing up to take you in.

The car insurance comparison is a false analogy. Nobody must drive a car. People are free to live in cities and not have cars. Nobody is forced to get a passport and travel through airports. People are free to stay home.

America used to be synonymous with Freedom to act, or not act, in the way the individual desired. No more.

So to answer your question, yes it matters if you value living in a free society and not being forced to do things you don't want to do.



posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 12:23 PM
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Oh all these people saying "This is really a victory for conservatives who value the constitution."

Really? How dumb do they think people are?

The whole thing reeked of 'if you can't do it this way, do it this other way. The govt. can control it's people for their own good, just find a way"

Just slip out the back Jack
Make a new plan Stan
Don't need to be coy Roy
You WILL be controlled by me



posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 12:37 PM
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Originally posted by UltimateSkeptic1

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher

Has there ever been a tax on NOT doing something?


Does it matter?

There is no law that says that Government can only do things they have previously done in the past.


Of course it matters.

Until now the tax code has been used for social engineering based on rewarding or penalizing actions, not forcing people to buy products or services at gunpoint.

I'm 100% certain that the American public does not want a Draconian government that forces them to buy any product or service at gunpoint. Failure to buy insurance results in a tax. Failure to pay the tax results in the IRS confiscating your money. Failure to comply with the IRS will ultimately result in arrests. Failure to comply with arrests will result in federal agents with guns showing up to take you in.

The car insurance comparison is a false analogy. Nobody must drive a car. People are free to live in cities and not have cars. Nobody is forced to get a passport and travel through airports. People are free to stay home.

America used to be synonymous with Freedom to act, or not act, in the way the individual desired. No more.

So to answer your question, yes it matters if you value living in a free society and not being forced to do things you don't want to do.




If that's how you feel, its an opinion based on your political view, which obviously excludes the unprivileged.

The reason Obama took the route he did was because the insurance lobby pulled strings in congress when Obama's original bill was up for vote. His original plan was to provide health care for a neglected cross section of Americans (about thirty million) who were not covered in existing programs.

Capitalism is the draconian system that proliferated and profited from African and indigenous slavery for three centuries. The greed and ruthlessness of an economic system run by corporatism in Russia led to so much abject poverty that this became a bloody revolution of the Bolsheviks.

Personally, I think that your ideas are a bit extreme and rather Neoconian.



posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 01:11 PM
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Originally posted by g2v12

Originally posted by UltimateSkeptic1

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher

Has there ever been a tax on NOT doing something?


Does it matter?

There is no law that says that Government can only do things they have previously done in the past.


Of course it matters.

Until now the tax code has been used for social engineering based on rewarding or penalizing actions, not forcing people to buy products or services at gunpoint.

I'm 100% certain that the American public does not want a Draconian government that forces them to buy any product or service at gunpoint. Failure to buy insurance results in a tax. Failure to pay the tax results in the IRS confiscating your money. Failure to comply with the IRS will ultimately result in arrests. Failure to comply with arrests will result in federal agents with guns showing up to take you in.

The car insurance comparison is a false analogy. Nobody must drive a car. People are free to live in cities and not have cars. Nobody is forced to get a passport and travel through airports. People are free to stay home.

America used to be synonymous with Freedom to act, or not act, in the way the individual desired. No more.

So to answer your question, yes it matters if you value living in a free society and not being forced to do things you don't want to do.




The reason Obama took the route he did was because the insurance lobby pulled strings in congress when Obama's original bill was up for vote. His original plan was to provide health care for a neglected cross section of Americans (about thirty million) who were not covered in existing programs.




The reason Obama took the route he did was because he repeatedly INSISTED it wasn't a tax.

If he wanted to simply insure the uninsured all that would have been needed was a new tax to pay for it. But of course, that would have been impossible to sell to an already overtaxed population in the throws of a recession.

The American people do NOT want to be forced at gun point to buy any product or service. The backlash from the SCOTUS ruling will be severe because people do not want more taxes, let alone a new tax for NOT buying something.



posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 01:15 PM
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reply to post by UltimateSkeptic1
 


Didnt you just make a thread yesterday in support of this illegal law?

This is why i love America



posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 02:03 PM
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Originally posted by Juggernog
reply to post by UltimateSkeptic1
 


Didnt you just make a thread yesterday in support of this illegal law?

This is why i love America


No, I didn't support the law.

I supported the process that led to the outcome.

Big difference.

This thread is about the novelty of creating tax law that taxes people on actions they do NOT take.

I'm wondering if this sets a precedent that will wake people up to voting in the fall. In 2008 it was roughly only 35% of the eligible voters who put Obama and the Dems in control. I'm curious if people will realize that their government has now crossed into new territory by passing a tax law that taxes absence of an activity.



posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 02:10 PM
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Originally posted by UltimateSkeptic1
Just thinking about this ruling.

Does anybody know of any tax for NOT doing something?

I can't think of any examples of taxes imposed for NOT doing something.

This could open up an entirely new form of social engineering.

How about a tax on NOT going to the gym? That would be appropriate if we're all going to share the cost of each other's health care.


I am in no way for this but from my understanding it would be more like everyone being charged for a Gym Membership whether they work out or not. And if you refuse to pay up the IRS can show up and demand payment in any way they deem necessary. Let the audits commence.



posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 02:15 PM
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Originally posted by UltimateSkeptic1
This thread is about the novelty of creating tax law that taxes people on actions they do NOT take.

I'm wondering if this sets a precedent that will wake people up to voting in the fall. In 2008 it was roughly only 35% of the eligible voters who put Obama and the Dems in control. I'm curious if people will realize that their government has now crossed into new territory by passing a tax law that taxes absence of an activity.



Will you dare testify before all americans that you will NEVER visit a doctor in your lifetime, born at home, or speak on behalf of EVERY american that they will NEVER visit a doctor in their lifetime?

Will you dare claim to human genetic pefect health, for yourself and EVERY american?

You may be able to pay for any medical expenses, even old age diseases that runs into thousands, but dare you claim every american can afford it as you could, regardless if you are living in a car home or 100 room mansion?

If so, than that law would be illegal and an imposition to every american. Things is, DARE you conscionably answer those questions, or will you choose to hem, haw, and distract from it?



posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 02:22 PM
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Originally posted by shaluach
reply to post by Juggernog
 


Do you make less than 250K and/or have your own insurance from the company you work for? If yes to either then you won't have to purchase health care or be taxed.


So you seriously think that the amount being taken out of your check right now for Health Insurance is going to stop being deducted and unless you make over 250k a year you pay nothing for healthcare? I dont believe that for a second. No matter where it is being reported.



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