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Republicans’ Ex-Spokesman Calls For Armed Rebellion Over Obamacare

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posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 11:19 PM
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Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
I do care about the consequences, and since health care is no where near completely private


So if a completely privatized healthcare system didn't work, you'd support socialized healthcare, is this correct?


government has their tentacles firmly clenched around that industry


It's actually the other way around.




posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 11:19 PM
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reply to post by frazzle
 


No that will do and I am truly sorry about your families misfortune. Seems like your family has gone through more foul ups than everyone that I know put together.



posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 11:36 PM
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reply to post by Southern Guardian
 





So if a completely privatized healthcare system didn't work, you'd support socialized healthcare, is this correct?


A completely free and unregulated market will work. Governments do not regulate markets because they don't work unregulated, they regulate markets for power. What we have now is a partially socialized system in health care and that doesn't appear to be working at all. We don't have a partial free and unregulated market, because their can only be a free and unregulated market and the moment you tinker with that it no longer is a free and unregulated market, but here we are where people want to lecture on the "failures of free markets" and explain why we need a completely socialized health care system. Sigh.




It's actually the other way around.


Oh please. The health care industry has their tentacles firmly clenched around government? Really?



posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 11:44 PM
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Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
A completely free and unregulated market will work.


You avoided my question, and there's an obvious reason why. You insist we should have a completely private healthcare system, and you don't care about the consequences.



posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 11:44 PM
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reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 


You actually believe healthcare can work in the free market?
Everyone needs healthcare.
There is no reason for anyone in the free market to lower prices and give better service.
The free market applies to things people make choices about.



posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 11:50 PM
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reply to post by habitforming
 





You actually believe healthcare can work in the free market?


No, I just keep pushing free market principles because I live for posting in communities inundated with socialists who love to gang up on a free market advocate. I don't really believe in the principles I just love to be ganged up on by socialists. Sigh.




Everyone needs healthcare.


That's the beauty of free markets where anyone can purchase goods and services and no one is shut out.




There is no reason for anyone in the free market to lower prices and give better service.


Under a free market there would be massive competition, including the so called "alternative health care" market and this massive competition is the incentive to lower prices and give better service. It is impossibly naive to think people can be made to do such a thing by government and governments loved closed markets where competition is limited which gives those existing businesses with no incentive to lower prices and give better service.




The free market applies to things people make choices about.


That is precisely correct. Why do you have a problem with people making choices?



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 12:17 AM
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Originally posted by lives
reply to post by RealSpoke
 


I'm down.

Quite honestly if this doesn't do it nothing will.
edit on 28-6-2012 by lives because: (no reason given)


Really?...this trumps the "PATRIOT" Acts? That's just one example of something far more infringing than Obamacare. Or how about gasoline taxes, or recent foreign wars, or any number of other federal government missteps which cost us actual taxpayers far more than Obamacare.

Now I'm against mandated coverage of some kind, but only if those who don't have coverage can either a) pay for themselves or b) not be treated on my dime. since we're not going to want the populace diseased and useless, I'd say we're better off with this program than with the "I have a sore throat and no insuance so i'll let others pay for me to go to the ER instead of a $40 Walgreen's visit" which we operate under currently.

My main point though...far more freedoms have been crushed, and with far more importance than the right not to have health insurance for me to comprehend this being that one "too far" move that sparks armed rebellion. Is this really a bigger deal than the 4th Amendment being overridden?



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 12:33 AM
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Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
That's the beauty of free markets where anyone can purchase goods and services and no one is shut out.


You know absolutely nothing about the healthcare system then.




Under a free market there would be massive competition, including the so called "alternative health care" market and this massive competition is the incentive to lower prices and give better service. It is impossibly naive to think people can be made to do such a thing by government and governments loved closed markets where competition is limited which gives those existing businesses with no incentive to lower prices and give better service.




Oh and what has prevented this massive competition so far?
I know the answer, do you?




The free market applies to things people make choices about.


That is precisely correct. Why do you have a problem with people making choices?




posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 01:01 AM
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Actually a direct tax like this is unconstitutional. No matter what some purchased supremes might dictate. It was a direct tax the Stamp Act of 1764 that brought on the first American Revolutionary War.

en.wikipedia.org...

The second will likely be caused by a direct tax such as this. This is why the constitution forbids a direct tax is because the founders knew full well that it was such a direct tax that initiated the first Revolutionary War in the US. That is just the facts of the current and past situations.



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 03:45 AM
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I really don’t understand why some Americans don’t like the ObamaCare initiative. It will help so many people who otherwise would be able to get healthcare and support.

it seems to me that the only reason people dont want this is because they dont want to pay for others health problems (taxes)

I think, the Obama health care seems to be a legit and ethical good thing.

Best regards

Michael



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 08:47 AM
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Originally posted by detachedindividual

I live in the UK!


I'm HAPPY to pay taxes for national health services, you know why? Because without it we would be in the same position millions of Americans are in.



There is a difference. In the UK, you pay taxes, that tax money goes to health care professionals.

Here in the US, we pay insurance companies that leech billions of dollars away from the health care industry by paying out as little as they can possibly get away with to maximize their profits. I would be far less opposed to a system where tax dollars went directly to health care professionals, eliminating the parasitic insurance industry, which contributes nothing to health care.



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 08:57 AM
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And the moment people start using words like "socialist" and "communist" you know you're talking to a right wing hypocrite Republican who screams about free market capitalism while happy that a government (as long as it's a Republican government, if the Democrats do it it's suddenly "Socialism") is handing billions of $'s to bankers - and still calling it capitalism.


I think both parties are corrupt and controlled, and it makes no difference who you vote for. But, I am reminded every day of how selective and hypocritical the right are.

You do not live in a capitalist system. There is no free market capitalism in America. If you still think there is you have been living under a rock since 2007.



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 09:04 AM
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reply to post by masqua
 


Romney's campaign?

Shouldn't that be ca$hpaign?



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 10:35 AM
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Originally posted by Southern Guardian

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
I do care about the consequences, and since health care is no where near completely private


So if a completely privatized healthcare system didn't work, you'd support socialized healthcare, is this correct?


government has their tentacles firmly clenched around that industry


It's actually the other way around.


I can see by that lst bit that you have never been involved in running a medical practice. Compliance to governmental regulations is one of the largest costs of medicine.



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 10:37 AM
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Originally posted by detachedindividual
And the moment people start using words like "socialist" and "communist" you know you're talking to a right wing hypocrite Republican who screams about free market capitalism while happy that a government (as long as it's a Republican government, if the Democrats do it it's suddenly "Socialism") is handing billions of $'s to bankers - and still calling it capitalism.


I think both parties are corrupt and controlled, and it makes no difference who you vote for. But, I am reminded every day of how selective and hypocritical the right are.

You do not live in a capitalist system. There is no free market capitalism in America. If you still think there is you have been living under a rock since 2007.


Well of course. We have been pulled away from our free market capitalist roots since FDR. I do not disagree with your premise that the free market has been chipped away in the US over the years.



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 01:02 PM
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reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 



Under a free market there would be massive competition, including the so called "alternative health care" market and this massive competition is the incentive to lower prices and give better service. It is impossibly naive to think people can be made to do such a thing by government and governments loved closed markets where competition is limited which gives those existing businesses with no incentive to lower prices and give better service.


The so called alternative health care market is the exact reason regulations were implemented in the first place, the allopathic medical industry would never be able to compete with the success rate of naturopathy. Big industry is always at the forefront of regulations to keep out competition, no matter what business model is under discussion, ie. natural medicine vs pharmaceuticals. Keeping out free choice and keeping costs high is all that counts.

If doctors were taught true healing methods during their training and internships, they would also be free to offer natural methods of treating illness along side pharma drugs and we simply can't have that, so medical schools are heavily funded by the allopathic and pharmaceutical industries to keep the students unaware and misguided and locked into the doctrine of allopathy. Some have broken free and have taken up alternative medicine, but many of those have gone broke from systematic harassment by big medicine, big insurance and big government.

And patients. The propaganda that's gone into villifying the idea that natural substances are beneficial to health has been pushed by all these large industries, including media since the 1920s. And the UN now has its codex alimentarius poised to REMOVE all such natural substances from availability to the people. And no one wonders why that is. Three letters is all it takes to gain some insight: WHO.

So okay all you pushers of socialized medicine, you will do yourselves in by lack of understanding of what's really at play here. Stay locked in to the corporatist model of health care ~ which KILLS hundreds of thousands of people every year.


Medical Errors - A Leading Cause of Death

The JOURNAL of the AMERICAN MEDICAL ASSOCIATION (JAMA) Vol 284, No 4, July 26th 2000 article written by Dr Barbara Starfield, MD, MPH, of the Johns Hopkins School of Hygiene and Public Health, shows that medical errors may be the third leading cause of death in the United States.
www.cancure.org...



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 01:51 PM
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reply to post by habitforming
 





You know absolutely nothing about the healthcare system then.


Ignoramuses come in all forms, shapes and sizes, but the absurd ignoramus is the most perplexing. Are you talking about the "system" that all of you have declared broken and demanded Congress create an Affordable Health Care Act? That system? What are you doing, defending a broken system? Just how many bandages do you think you put on this broken system before you finally accept it is broken? This monstrosity of a heavily regulated health care industry is the system you speak of and it is broken, but the only answer your sect can come up with is: "Oh, it needs to be even more regulated" and no matter how many regulations are placed upon it it is always the same cry: "Oh we need even more regulations."

Is that the "system" you claim I know nothing about, of which you want to simultaneously defend and then attack when it suits your purposes, the only difference is that when you attack the system, suddenly this irrefutably heavily regulated industry is a "free market" system.

Your naivete and trust in a government that has consistently, and often times on record, betrayed you is tragic, but the beauty of our Constitutional republic is that your naivete as a majority - and how tragic is that the majority are naive knaves - can never trample over the rights of any individual...at least not lawfully.

You and your cronies go have your "healthcare system". I advocate and insist to those who are educated and understand the vast problems we face, that the only answer is to not acquiesce to tyranny, to extricate yourselves from this closed system market place and enter the free and unregulated market that has always existed. Do not fear the ogres of socialism, they are bratty children who know not what they do. Just be free and find those like minded souls who are free as well and within that community, a real and effective health care industry will emerge...or you can place all your bets on habitforming and his ilk, that choice is yours.



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 01:54 PM
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reply to post by Southern Guardian
 





You avoided my question, and there's an obvious reason why


No I didn't avoid your question, I answered it but you didn't like the answer, and there is an obvious reason why. What should have been clear to you in my answer was that I reject your assertion that a free market system would fail. I answered the way I did to illustrate that there is overwhelming evidence to show that socialized systems do fail, but there is no evidence one way or the other that free markets will fail. Here's why you don't like my answer, because you asked a loaded question, and I disarmed you.

Tough.



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 02:33 PM
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Originally posted by Classified Info
reply to post by frazzle
 


No that will do and I am truly sorry about your families misfortune. Seems like your family has gone through more foul ups than everyone that I know put together.


Heck no, my family hasn't gone through more foul ups than anyone else, probably less because we've learned the hard way who not to trust and found better alternatives. The medical industry is well known for foul ups, the problem being that many people don't know how fouled up they really are because their "doctor knows best". And those who do have a suspicion he might NOT know best are diagnosed with depression and put on meds to keep them fat and happy. And dumbed down. The insurance companies are HAPPY with that. The drug companies are HAPPY with that. And most of all, the government is HAPPY with that because you'll keep electing the same idiots to office and cheering them while they're destroying your liberties.

Anti depression medication use is up 400% in just the past 20 years. Ask yourself why that is. Me? I suspect its because people do know subliminally that they've been fouled up by all of the above, but they don't want to admit they got that way by trusting experts with brass name plates on their doors and dignified letters behind their names. The experts can't be wrong so it must be all in their heads.



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 02:59 PM
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Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by habitforming
 





You know absolutely nothing about the healthcare system then.


Ignoramuses come in all forms, shapes and sizes, but the absurd ignoramus is the most perplexing. Are you talking about the "system" that all of you have declared broken and demanded Congress create an Affordable Health Care Act? That system? What are you doing, defending a broken system? Just how many bandages do you think you put on this broken system before you finally accept it is broken? This monstrosity of a heavily regulated health care industry is the system you speak of and it is broken, but the only answer your sect can come up with is: "Oh, it needs to be even more regulated" and no matter how many regulations are placed upon it it is always the same cry: "Oh we need even more regulations."

Is that the "system" you claim I know nothing about, of which you want to simultaneously defend and then attack when it suits your purposes, the only difference is that when you attack the system, suddenly this irrefutably heavily regulated industry is a "free market" system.

Your naivete and trust in a government that has consistently, and often times on record, betrayed you is tragic, but the beauty of our Constitutional republic is that your naivete as a majority - and how tragic is that the majority are naive knaves - can never trample over the rights of any individual...at least not lawfully.

You and your cronies go have your "healthcare system". I advocate and insist to those who are educated and understand the vast problems we face, that the only answer is to not acquiesce to tyranny, to extricate yourselves from this closed system market place and enter the free and unregulated market that has always existed. Do not fear the ogres of socialism, they are bratty children who know not what they do. Just be free and find those like minded souls who are free as well and within that community, a real and effective health care industry will emerge...or you can place all your bets on habitforming and his ilk, that choice is yours.





I am impressed. That was very eloquently stated.




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