Before you condemn Islam

My problem with Islam, and many other religions, is that I am not allowed to be a non-believer. Given half a chance and half of the right circumstance, I 'm certain that any hardcore believer would force their beliefs upon me. And if they can get away with it, I'm sure they would eradicate me, along with any other non-believers of their faith.

Originally posted by tamusan
My problem with Islam, and many other religions, is that I am not allowed to be a non-believer.

I feel pretty much exactly the same way where atheism is concerned, in all honesty. An atheist will immediately leap on this and say that there is no way that they will kill me, as Muslims would, and that's true; but theistic belief is starting to become a major source of social isolation, in current society.

The problem is that atheists will also likely respond to that with a sense of satisfaction, and say, "Good. Get with the program, then," without realising the degree of both cruelty and hypocrisy inherent in that attitude. They feel enormously bitter about the degree to which they have been held down by Christians, and rightly so; but like every other demographic in existence, once they become the majority themselves, they immediately begin demonstrating the very attitude that they previously professed to hate.

Before I get an American atheist responding to this with a rant about the Christian majority, understand that that is in America only. Christianity specifically, and theism more generally, is in decline virtually everywhere else on the planet.

reply to post by petrus4


I'm an American, but I have lived less than half of my years in the United States. I don't identify with athiests, but find that I am often lumped together with them. I have no desire to keep anyone from their faith, but I also have no desire to be placed in a position where I am forced to acknowledge it. I especially feel sick from the thought that religous laws could one day be forced on me or others like me.

I feel that I do well enough without religous constraints. I go through each of my days trying not to have a negative impact on others. I have also even been known to help those I believe need help from me. I'm honest. I have integrity. I am thankful for my blessings. etc...

I've been shunned, by some of my own Christian relatives, simply because I chose not to believe. Personally, I've only had positive experiences with followers of Islam, but I believe that my non-belief makes them think they are above me.

Originally posted by tamusan
reply to post by petrus4

 

I feel that I do well enough without religous constraints. I go through each of my days trying not to have a negative impact on others. I have also even been known to help those I believe need help from me. I'm honest. I have integrity. I am thankful for my blessings. etc...

I have no difficulty believing that.

I've been shunned, by some of my own Christian relatives, simply because I chose not to believe.

I basically consider theists to exist within two groups. Those who have had spiritual contact, and/or direct paranormal experience, and those who have not. Those who have not are the majority; and they can, in a very real sense, be said to be adherents of their faith on a purely theoretical basis.

They don't have anything other than the scripture itself to go on, and because the scripture has generally been distorted by people who seek social/political control, as mentioned, said people have no real way of knowing what God genuinely wants. Christians also do not have reason available to them in the manner that agnostics or atheists do, as they are indoctrinated to believe that attempting to use critical thinking in the face of Biblical contradictions, is evidence of demonic influence.

So the majority (but certainly not all of them) have neither spiritual nor rational moral guidance to fall back on.

Personally, I've only had positive experiences with followers of Islam, but I believe that my non-belief makes them think they are above me.

It would. A non-Muslim who isn't paying the jizya has no place in the Islamic social hierarchy. You either convert, you pay, or you die, and to a large extent, the only reason why Islamic immigrants don't try and enforce that in the West, is because they don't have a majority. To a mild extent, I've had direct personal experience of that, offline. Although they wouldn't admit it to you, some of them probably think that the only reason why you are still alive, is because the country you live in, is not an Islamic majority.

Mind you, among Islamic countries, some are more radical than others. You might end up dead in Pakistan or Nigeria, as an atheist or agnostic; but they may well let you live in Iran or Turkey. It depends purely on the people in question. Although the fanatics claim otherwise, theological adherence really has nothing whatsoever to do with it.

reply to post by petrus4

i'm glad you've clarified your stance on islam. i, for one, am a muslim. but i'm not a terrorist, and i would never kill you for saying something against mohammad s.a.w. or islam, as it is your right to say what you like. but the main thing to do is DENY IGNORANCE. yes, islam is a religion that has been used by people with an attitude problem. but the core problem has been so convoluted over time that what ever reason you are angry is not the right reason to be angry, nor the right person to be angry at. the whole of the world has been deeply affected by corruption and it is poisoning everything, including our thoughts, hearts, and minds. Islam is beautiful for me because it is a respectful way of life, loving God. If you're not religious, this religion is not for you. lol. yes there are people who interperet small paragraphs to mean vengeance against the world, but the whole of the book is merely a reference on how to deal with everyday life and conflict. i'm not here to apologize for people who call themselves muslim and yet harbor hate in their hearts. that's not what loving God is about, and i am confident that in time those who perpetrate violence and hate will get their just desserts. the jihad is the personal struggle to maintain integrity and to live in a way respectful of God.

there are billions of muslims in the world, so there will be a fair share of the fringe lunatics and a larger portion of those who seem to be "moderate" yet still sow the seeds of evil, the same can be said for most of the major religions. the point is that if you sincerely love God, then you sincerely love humanity and you do not believe the lies. you will know in your heart what is right and wrong. and you will life your life in such a way that correlates to your beliefs. actions speak louder than words.

this world is in dire trouble and we are all arguing about the wrong things, when we all want the same thing : peace and the opportunity to live our lives and experience happiness. so why can't we do that?

reply to post by couldbeanyone

the point is that if you sincerely love God, then you sincerely love humanity and you do not believe the lies. you will know in your heart what is right and wrong. and you will life your life in such a way that correlates to your beliefs. actions speak louder than words.

You are defined by your word, but judged by your deeds, so you will never escape the error of your ways. The best advice I offer you is to have a greater measure of good in your repertoire.


So let's be honest... If you have both a sincere Love for God and humanity, why lump those together with anything resembling violence? If there's reason to kill, it's self-defense... Not to spread a particular religion.

1st Rule: Sacrifice
2nd Rule: Strive for Equality

Simple right? Refer to my signature...

reply to post by Americanist


i'm confused by your reply. it seems like you are congenial and agreeable, yet i sense an air of..... something. i don't know what. your link took me to a myspace page which i didn't really look at other than to see the repeated quote that really isn't so simple, as it is vague in my opinion. if you love god, love mankind. period.

reply to post by couldbeanyone


Wisdom... Keep your fingers crossed it catches on.

I have a problem with any form of fascism, dictatorship, or theocracy, they are evil beyond belief. And the mild mannered muslims that post, are sweeping under the rug atrocities, abuse of children, rape, murder, torture, dismemberment, beheadings, stonings, the abuses of their ruling religious dictators, in every town, they are sweeping under the rug this:

maldivianapostates.files.wordpress.com...

No other religion that I have ever encountered is like this, and I cannot believe this is occurring on this planet in the year 2000 plus. Not a chance is it believable.

This is also done by TPTB, the brotherhood is a branch of the black ops and cia, and their NWO, their new serfdom and its sickening.

Google Banna and the nazi's.

I will never allow my planet and those children, those children in those countries and their women to be abused. I stand under the stars and ask all the positive ETS to get in here now, or to empower me to be superman in the system and save them all. I have a very hard time sleeping at night and worry nonstop and carry the whole world on my shoulders.

What I don't do, and never ever ever will do, is stand under them, tip toe around evil, or live in any kind of fear about any of them.

I would not run form 1000 foot draco. I would go out and tell him what I thought of his very bad behavior and for him to get a heart really really fast, because I had a huge report to hand in about him. Period.

I send up SOS's all the time for this planet and will not stop and will not allow any single human being here even those that are broken and hurting others, to be lost or harmed by the bad guys in any way. (I mean the ones who think they're judging humans but I'm judging them and their whole smiting and ugly act is not pretty, its very sadly lacking! Unless they are completely love and completely wanting to help every single person, and heal everyone, they don't even cut it as Higher Ups!) I know that on the other side it doesnt take half the people to do something, it only takes 1 mind being right. They're all telepathic, and 1 mind can change the entire universe.

I am never going to allow any of this. I despise this planet and how its run, I renounce all of it, and I don't religions at all, they are all tools of the controllers.

But even amongst those, some are not even possible on any planet if its not a hellzone.

reply to post by Unity_99


Are you trying to suggest a connection between Islam and the Nazis? No way that unbelievable!


Islam: The Jews Are the Eternal Enemies of Muslims Regardless of the Occupation of Palestine


WW2 1941-1945 Hitler Grand Mufti Nazi Islam 02




The Association between Naziism and Arab Antisemitism

Jewish Rabbi: "Islam is religion of future"

Your putting up a Russian Jew Rabi (possible an actor) who is currently residing in a mental institution, as a counter to the mufti working with Hitler by way of the discovery channel?
. Islam has no supporting arguments


I accuse Muhammad of being:

a narcissist
a misogynist
a rapist
a pedophile
a lecher
a torturer
a mass murderer
a cult leader
an assassin
a terrorist
a madman
a looter

edit on 3-7-2012 by redneck13 because: .

Originally posted by redneck13
Your putting up a Russian Jew Rabi (possible an actor) who is currently residing in a mental institution, as a counter to the mufti working with Hitler by way of the discovery channel?
. Islam has no supporting arguments


I accuse Muhammad of being:

a narcissist
a misogynist
a rapist
a pedophile
a lecher
a torturer
a mass murderer
a cult leader
an assassin
a terrorist
a madman
a looter

edit on 3-7-2012 by redneck13 because: .

American Jewish rabbi :
proves that Muhamed is a prophet





_________________________________________

What have you been upto lately ?

How rediculas a prophet can not also be a a narcissist ,a misogynist,a rapist,a pedophile,,a lecher,a torturer,a mass murderer,a cult leader,an assassin , terrorist,a madman ,anda looter. That is not the message of prophets.
If the last statement isn’t true, may Allah strike me down when I post this message


I am sure this Jewish Rabbi person has a following far and wide
If this rabbi person or any other person can prove what I said is not true, its worth $100,000 dollars.

That crazy rabbi should put his money where his mouth is, if he wants to be taking seriously in his fallacy
Fact is fact

www.faithfreedom.org...

The above challenge was issued in 2001 and it hasn’t been met yet. See the debates I had with Muslims. Also see the pathetic attempt of some Muslims trying to refute me here , here, here and here. Is that all the Muslim world can offer? Where are the scholars of Islam? Why such an important task is left to a bunch of amateurs who actually do more damage to Islam? Isn’t it time that the real scholars come forth and refute my charges?

The truth is that several of the people that debated me were real scholars, such as the eminent Pakistani scholar Mr. Javed Ahmed Ghamidi and his disciple Dr. Khalid Zaheer. This debate is a must read and is available for download. Dr. Zaheer is a learned man, a moderate Muslim and a good human being. I have utmost respect for him.

As of this day, I am also doubling the reward. If you are not a reputable scholar, you can still win the prize. All you have to do is persuade a scholar to debate with me. If he (she) disproves my charges or can prove that Muhammad was a prophet of God, both you and he (she) will be rewarded $50,000 dollars each. This is to encourage you to write to your admired scholar and convince them that Islam is in danger and that it is their duty to defend it. Once you write to invite someone, please send a CC to me for announcing the invitation. Myemail is faithfreedom2 (@) gmail.com

Please advertise this challenge. Every Muslim must see it. This is like throwing water on their fire. Nothing will dampen their zeal more than the realization that among a billion Muslims there is not a single scholar who can prove the wild claims of Muhammad, nor acquit him of these grave charges.
I know your excessive faith makes you believe you know everything, but really you don’t.

$50,000 U.S. dollars

to anyone who can disprove any of the dozen of the accusations that I have made against Muhammad. I accuse Muhammad of being:
a narcissist
a misogynist
a rapist
a pedophile
a lecher
a torturer
a mass murderer
a cult leader
an assassin
a terrorist
a madman
a looter
I have debated with many Muslims. Their defense of Islam can be summarized in two categories:

a- Denial of the authenticity of Islamic sources that report the stories of crimes of Muhammad (example: debate with Edip Yukssel, a leader of the Submitters)

b- Moral relativism and situational ethics, e.g., “In those days, pedophilia, assassination, rape, raid, pillage, massacre and lying, were common practices, so Muhammad is innocent because he did what everyone else was doing.” Muslims even go as far as to question the legitimacy of the Golden Rule to claim I do not have any basis to condemn Muhammad. In other words, who can say what is good and what is evil? That is up to the messenger of God to decide. (Example: debate with Yamin Zakaria)

edit on 3-7-2012 by redneck13 because: ,

Look people - I can understand I suppose naive people with good intentions bending over backwards trying to find a positive slant on Islam - particularly as the Koran itself is such a jumbled mish-mash of contradictory and nonsensical verses, written in very difficult religious arabic - a skilled apologist or deciever can tie anyone up in knots pretending that it does not mean what it appears to mean.

You have to stop kidding yourselves - and take a cold hard look at it - Islam is evil through and through!

reply to post by redneck13


American Soldier Accept ISLAM



Slandering islam is not good enough simpletons

reply to post by iIuminaIi

I feel sorry for those souls

This is where I post the video about thousands leaving Islam for Christianity, but I don’t need to stoop to your level. My faith has the strenght to stand on it’s own

Originally posted by JohhnyBGood
Look people - I can understand I suppose naive people with good intentions bending over backwards trying to find a positive slant on Islam - particularly as the Koran itself is such a jumbled mish-mash of contradictory and nonsensical verses, written in very difficult religious arabic - a skilled apologist or deciever can tie anyone up in knots pretending that it does not mean what it appears to mean.

You have to stop kidding yourselves - and take a cold hard look at it - Islam is evil through and through!

I have yet to see anyone on this website say what you just said the way you just said it. I completely agree.

Muslims will try and argue the facts when it is their opinion they are truly arguing. The facts speak for themselves, islam is inherently evil. I wish this were not the case either.

Muslims, please stop apologizing for islam.

Liam Neeson 'considers converting to Islam'

The Northern Ireland actor, who comes from a Catholic background, told the newspaper that the call to prayer in Istanbul drove him to distraction for the first week of filming but he then began to find it "the most beautiful, beautiful thing".

The 59-year-old faced criticism in 2010 after refuting claims by author C.S. Lewis that Narnia lion Aslan is based on Christ. Neeson – who voiced the character in the film adaptation – instead claimed Aslan was based on other spiritual leaders including Mohammed and Buddha. “Aslan symbolises a Christ-like figure but he also symbolises for me Mohammed, Buddha and all the great spiritual leaders and prophets over the centuries,” he said at the time. “That’s who Aslan stands for as well as a mentor figure for kids – that’s what he means for me.”