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Hard Questions for Conservatives

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posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 03:10 PM
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In the wake of this week’s events (Obamacare being upheld and Arizona’s Immigration law struck down) conservatives need to start asking themselves some tough questions.

Questions

1) Obviously, hitching conservative fortunes to Republican judicial appointees, and the Republican Party generally, has been a failure. Is it time for a conservative third party?


I believe we need a “conservative” party. I believe we need MANY new parties because the voice of the few has been louder than the voice of the many for far too long. We are constantly corralled into the two party charade and the few (the elites) get what they want no matter what the outcome is.






2) The United Sates is not "becoming" socialist. It is already socialist. The Federal government spends approximately 25% of GDP, and when you add in state and local taxes, the average government take is closer to 40% of GDP - and higher for some income brackets. And frankly, a lot of people like it that way. The American public loves socialist programs like Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security, which consume some 40% of the annual budget.

The SCOTUS simply made America more socialist than it already was. How are conservatives going to convince large segments of the public to give up their socialism? Is it even possible to do so?


I believe the elites have successfully harvested an Orwellian ‘Big Brother’ society over the past 60 years. I don’t think these dependent idiots who call themselves Americans will give up their socialism even when they know it will lead to bankruptcy for the country.




3) Money is power, and the 16th Amendment created a vast pool of money for the Federal government to spend in policy areas that the Founders would have objected to.

Are you willing to support a constitutional amendment limiting federal revenue to a specific percentage of GDP in order to curb Federal power?


Of course federal spending should be limited. We also need a balanced budget amendment, term limits for congress, real immigration reform, no illegitimate wars, campaign finance reform, etc.




4) Conservatives have lost on almost all major issues -- from abortion to socialized medicine to affirmative action to illegal immigration to gays in the military. Is it even possible to advance a conservative agenda any more in the United States as presently constituted ?


Yes, it’s possible but highly unlikely.

It’s getting harder to remain optimistic about the future of the US of A. The once great country I grew up in has been hijacked and the inmates are running the asylum. Radicals who were once rightfully marginalized are now prominent figures controlling the direction of the country.

Can we rely on Mitt to repeal Obamacare? Who is the real Mitt Romney?



Somebody tell me it will be OK!!




edit on 28-6-2012 by seabag because: (no reason given)




posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 03:28 PM
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I truly wish with all of my heart that I could tell you it will all be fine. Unfortunately, history would disagree with that statement.

To understand the direction this country is going, it would be prudent to study events throughout our history that reflect a similar pattern that the United States is currently following.

Throughout history when an empire – and make no mistake, the USA is an empire – reaches a certain point, it begins an agonizing and steady decline. This can be observed with Rome, the Persian Empire, Greece, and many more once great civilizations.

Morality, ethics, and pure logic have been on the decline for many years now in the United States. People cheer with happy hearts as socialistic programs are passed – when all the while they are truly cheering for the demise of the infrastructure that has made the United States great in the first place.

I do not believe that the American people need a third party – because that would be repeating the same mistakes of the past. That party would become just as corrupt as others.

What we need is a great leader, and politicians that refuse to answer the call of corruption. In order to do this, they must be made accountable for their actions.

Accountability of ones actions is key – and currently our politicians are not very accountable, and can literally get away with murder.

Minority opinion should be disregarded, instead of upheld as though it were majority opinion.

More of an emphasis needs to be placed upon the values of family life.

Unfortunately the human condition dictates adversity, and ignorance will always prevail in a lazy society who cannot think for their selves.






edit on 28-6-2012 by MentorsRiddle because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 03:36 PM
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reply to post by MentorsRiddle
 



Morality, ethics, and pure logic have been on the decline for many years now in the United States. People cheer with happy hearts as socialistic programs are passed – when all the while they are truly cheering for the demise of the infrastructure that has made the United States great in the first place.


I’m sad to say you are correct; we’ve been heading downhill for a while. We have time to change course but November isn’t far away and after this week….the likelihood of an Obama second term seems real and possible to me now.



I do not believe that the American people need a third party – because that would be repeating the same mistakes of the past. That party would become just as corrupt as others.

What we need is a great leader, and politicians that refuse to answer the call of corruption. In order to do this, they must be made accountable for their actions.


While I agree we need strong leadership, without being free from the constraints of the two-party domination those leaders won’t rise to the top IMO.


Accountability of ones actions is key – and currently our politicians are not very accountable, and can literally get away with murder.

Minority opinion should be disregarded, instead of upheld as though it were majority opinion.

More of an emphasis needs to be placed upon the values of family life.

Unfortunately the human condition dictates adversity, and ignorance will always prevail in a lazy society who cannot think for their selves.


Well said…though I will try to hold out hope until the bitter end that things will turn around. I’m just not real confident Willard is the leadership we need…though we WILL get one or the other (possibly two sides of the same coin).



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 03:36 PM
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It will be ok because the ends do not justify the means and if you don't believe that then you have already drank from the wine of wrath. What we have been living under is the calm before the storm, so just get ready for the storm. Prepare for the worst, but hope for the best.

When our country is taken over by entitled crybabies and those who have no respect for the law, there will be no more law.



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 03:38 PM
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reply to post by MentorsRiddle
 


+100
I agree



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 03:44 PM
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Originally posted by thehoneycomb
It will be ok because the ends do not justify the means and if you don't believe that then you have already drank from the wine of wrath. What we have been living under is the calm before the storm, so just get ready for the storm. Prepare for the worst, but hope for the best.

When our country is taken over by entitled crybabies and those who have no respect for the law, there will be no more law.


When our country is taken over by entitled crybabies and those who have no respect for the law, there will be no more law

Brilliant thought regarding this nation.... Brilliant.
edit on 28-6-2012 by MentorsRiddle because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 03:47 PM
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reply to post by thehoneycomb
 



It will be ok because the ends do not justify the means and if you don't believe that then you have already drank from the wine of wrath. What we have been living under is the calm before the storm, so just get ready for the storm. Prepare for the worst, but hope for the best.


Right! Something has to give at some point. I’ll certainly know better what I need to prepare for after this election!


Things will either be looking up and the economy will jump OR…the future will look bleak.



When our country is taken over by entitled crybabies and those who have no respect for the law, there will be no more law.


After this week I’d say we’re almost at that point now, friend. The constitution is apparently a thing of the past; a footnote in our history.



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 03:51 PM
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reply to post by seabag
 


I think we need to eliminate the Party System entirely. Each Candidate stands on their own, to be judged on who they are. The Party System is a farce.

Because of the Party System, once elected they are forced to govern based on their next reelection campaign. That alone should negate the idea of a Party System. It is the Party System that corrupts them in the first place.

But then, that is the purpose of the Parties. If not for the Party groupies, they would actually have to care about the what the majority of us want or don't want.

On a good note, I think that Independents are now the largest voting block. There is hope. Partisans are the scourge of our society and the cause of many of our problems.



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 03:51 PM
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reply to post by seabag
 


I don't think we'll have another election, the dictator in office has handed the land away to its enemies.



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 03:55 PM
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reply to post by seabag
 

While i agree with you 99% I disagree that we need a third party, you see we already have a third party the progressive party made up quietly of politicians from both side of the aisle both republican and democrat! That is the source of almost all political dissent and nonsense we see coming out of Washington! The progressive party have hijacked both of our party's and turned them against us!



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 04:07 PM
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The 2 party system is a feature, not a bug, of the winner takes all principle.
In parliamentary systems 3rd (4th, 5th etc) parties could establish themselves by getting first 5 then 6 then 10% up to 20% of the vote.
If a 3rd party managed to get 20% of the vote in every district in the US, how many representatives would they get?
0



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 04:10 PM
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reply to post by SimonXGrim
 



While i agree with you 99% I disagree that we need a third party, you see we already have a third party the progressive party made up quietly of politicians from both side of the aisle both republican and democrat! That is the source of almost all political dissent and nonsense we see coming out of Washington! The progressive party have hijacked both of our party's and turned them against us!



I kind of agree. We are forced to choose between two sides of the same damn coin and people at the far end (conservatives) like me have no representation at all….that’s BS! That’s why I’d like to see a “conservative party” rather than being forced to abstain or vote republican.

When it comes down to election time, only a Republican or Democrat has a real shot (and what’s the difference these days?
).

Thanks for the reply.



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 04:13 PM
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reply to post by narwahl
 



The 2 party system is a feature, not a bug, of the winner takes all principle.
In parliamentary systems 3rd (4th, 5th etc) parties could establish themselves by getting first 5 then 6 then 10% up to 20% of the vote.
If a 3rd party managed to get 20% of the vote in every district in the US, how many representatives would they get?


If conservatives started their own party and put forth a viable candidate how many votes do you think a run of the mill/cookie cutter republican candidate like a McCain or Romney would get? Not many IMO!

We need options!



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 04:14 PM
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If you think things are going to change in November, regardless of who wins, you're sadly mistaken.
No one makes it to the Whitehouse without having been purchased by the elites.
VERY few remain in Congress very long without having been purchased by the elites.

More & more are waking up to the reality that there is a terminal cancer in the united States of America. It is called government & it is killing its host.

TJ told us what is needed when the the system fails or becomes too corrupt.

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time
with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
~ Thomas Jefferson

And every time the thought enters my head that the above quote is too extreme, i remind myself of this quote;

"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day,
that my child may have peace."
~ Thomas Paine
edit on 2012/6/28 by mal1970 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 04:18 PM
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reply to post by seabag
 


Absolutely.

We need a Conservative third party that incorporates the extreme left. A Libertarian, Constitutional, Blue Dog, Tea Party, OWS, Ron Paulite, common sense party.



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 04:21 PM
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Ought to read some of the comments on this board "right wingers do not know what socialism is" etc.

Fact when other people are paying for your existence that is socialism with the entitlement mentality that extends to forcing people to pay for others healthcare,educations,homes,cell phones. and everything else a certain group has deemed to be "civil" rights.

Something i have said time and time agian never before in this entire nations history are people consuming the wealth of others instead of making it on their own.

Conservatives have failed, so have those who claim to be liberal which is why this nation has a 15 trillion dollar defict 88 million out of work and under employed who will now be forced to buy a corporate product,. but then agian all those "socialist" ideas is fattening the corporate pocket , and government's poket while you are already having a hard time paying for your own existence.

It is time both parties get left behind what have they accomplished except taking more from you?

Current CBO projections put the national debt at 21 trillion within the next 4 years after today I think that figure was way off it is going to be a hell of a lot more.
edit on 28-6-2012 by neo96 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 04:23 PM
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Originally posted by seabag
If conservatives started their own party and put forth a viable candidate how many votes do you think a run of the mill/cookie cutter republican candidate like a McCain or Romney would get? Not many IMO!

We need options!


Unfortunately conservatives aren't smart enough to know what conservatism is.
Look who the GOP is nominating.



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 04:27 PM
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I think you want to substitute the word Socialist for the word Fascist. It is in Corporate interests that our government functions.

But yes, break from the Republicans... they're about as Conservative as Rush Limbaugh's "bad habits".



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 04:28 PM
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reply to post by mal1970
 



If you think things are going to change in November, regardless of who wins, you're sadly mistaken.


A guy can hope!!


I think we’re both right - allow me to explain. It’s not so much about one man (POTUS) but the mood of the country. When those with money feel a friendlier environment they spend money, jobs are created, businesses expand, the economy thrives, etc. I think a Romney victory will give the economy (and taxpayers) a well deserved boost.

What happens after that is unclear but the wise bet would be “back to business as usual” and we’ll be in this predicament again one day soon with out of control spending, overbearing government, wars, etc.


No one makes it to the Whitehouse without having been purchased by the elites. VERY few remain in Congress very long without having been purchased by the elites.

More & more are waking up to the reality that there is a terminal cancer in the united States of America. It is called government & it is killing its host.


Unfortunately you are correct…very true, friend!



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 04:30 PM
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reply to post by mal1970
 



Unfortunately conservatives aren't smart enough to know what conservatism is.

Look who the GOP is nominating.


You’re missing the point.

The GOP isn’t a conservative group….the GOP is what conservatives need to abandon.



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