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Tenants launch legal action to stop missiles being put on roof for Olympics

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posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 04:55 PM
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reply to post by stumason
 


Ahh ok.. Its no problem, I was just confused lol. Thats what I get for not reading all the posts




posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 05:37 PM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 


C'mon now, you know the label "Police State" is thrown around on ATS whenever the UK comes up for discussion!

Also, you seem to have totally ignored my comparison of London and New York to carry on peddling the "surveillance capital of the world" BS. How can it be, when New York has more?



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 05:43 PM
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Originally posted by stumason
reply to post by SLAYER69
 


C'mon now, you know the label "Police State" is thrown around on ATS whenever the UK comes up for discussion!


Yes, probably, but not by me.



Also, you seem to have totally ignored my comparison of London and New York to carry on peddling the "surveillance capital of the world" BS. How can it be, when New York has more?


I have no issues acknowledging NY and other Cities in the US have their issues as well. I've also noticed over the years that you seem to be in denial and come unglued over the FACT that London is at or near the top of the Surveillance list.



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 05:52 PM
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reply to post by stumason
 


Article


BBW estimates there are now some 51,000 police-run cameras watching British citizens in urban areas, not including private cameras or cameras situated in other public buildings like train stations or bus depots.

A common figure cited is a total 4.2 million cameras across the Britain based on a working paper published in 2002, by academics Michael McCahill and Clive Norris but research last year by Cheshire Police puts the figure closer to 1.85 million.

But Ms. Carr says that without official registrations and research it is impossible to calculate.

The civil rights group Liberty estimates that the average Londoner is captured on camera around 300 times a day while BBW claims Britain has 20 percent of the world’s CCTV cameras and only 1 percent of the world’s population.



Read more: articles.businessinsider.com...



or this article


London has 10,000 crime-fighting CCTV cameras which cost £200 million, figures show today


what are you defending again??



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 06:05 PM
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reply to post by Corruption Exposed
 


wow
Fortress Britain/Gran Bretan sure has become the kingdom of paranoia

the irony is that all these security measures are only for the upper crust that wants to go to the olympics [slumming]
and would be never even be considered for commoner events

say the world cup

if queen "lizzy" would just stay in her hole with the rest of her brood and watched it on their wall to wall plasma screen...




posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 06:24 PM
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reply to post by howmuch4another
 


I'm not "defending" anything, just trying to put the tired old "police state" and CCTV garbage to bed and get people to look at it objectively (a waste of time on ATS, I know, but I try)

Now, the question is if any of you actually read the working paper published in 2002, which your link references. I did and an awful lot of what it said is misquoted or taken out of context every time this topic comes up...

Also, your own link states that London has 10,000 "police run" (not actually accurate either as they are run by local authorities, not the Police). That is still less than Chicago, New York (which has 5,000 in Manhattan alone) or LA, yet people will still push the line that the UK is worse.



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 06:27 PM
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reply to post by stumason
 


Lol dude! Just admit it!
the UK is a police state and so is the US! You just happen to have more cctv cams/population than the US.. Its a fact, and i suggest the sooner you accept it, the sooner we can get back on topic!

edit on 6/28/2012 by Nspekta because: grammer..grrr



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 06:38 PM
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reply to post by Nspekta
 


No, I won't bloody well accept a freaking fallacy just because people insist I do..

It is also totally disingenuous to use the term Police State. North Korea is a Police State, Communist East Germany was a Police state. Throwing the term around in the hope it will stick doesn't make it so.

Now, if you're going to bleat about being "on topic", people shouldn't bring it up in the first place.

It's also incredibly telling that you're all parroting figures from the working paper (which is where the 300 times a day, more CCTV per capita than anywhere in world etc all came from) without having read it or understood how they came to that conclusion.

The figure of 4.3 million CCTV camera's was based upon a study done by walking around Croydon ONLY and then extrapolating that to every corner of the UK, which is obviously a flawed method. In fact, in a FOI request to the Information Commissioner in December 2009 they admit the figure is most likely incorrect and more recent studies indicate the figure to be much lower than the 4.2 million cameras in the UK they quoted.

But, lets not let facts get in the way of a good conspiracy wank fest, hey...



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 06:42 PM
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reply to post by Nspekta
 


Did you know there are an estimated 30 million surveillance cameras in the USA? Apparently they shoot about 4 billion hours of surveillance per week on y'all - and that was in 2009!

also see this from wired.com, also 2009.



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 06:46 PM
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reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 



I live in a small/medium sized city in lower Tx and can almost guaranty that when I go to Walmart, which is 5 miles away, I am probably video taped by 10 different cameras. That includes all the ones in the parking lot but not the ones inside Walmart.



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 06:54 PM
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Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
reply to post by Nspekta
 


Did you know there are an estimated 30 million surveillance cameras in the USA? Apparently they shoot about 4 billion hours of surveillance per week on y'all - and that was in 2009!

also see this from wired.com, also 2009.


Hey Al, if you look at his avatar it says Canada


But yes, all modern countries are police states whether it's out in the open or not. Even my beloved Canada is being stripped of it's freedoms. Luckily we're not mounting missiles on our buildings yet...most likely due to our government being broke.



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 07:02 PM
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reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 


Im not disputing that fact! Big Brother watches everywhere!



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 07:27 PM
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Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by stumason
Carry on trying to convince yourself (and us) that the UK is some Police state, but you guys in the US have it much worse and you don't even know it.



No offense.

No matter how you slice it, London is the Surveillance capital of the world. I've never called it a "Police State" that's your spin on it. I was implying that London is already monitored to death with regards to watching it's citizenry.

If you feel that means it's close to being a Police state then that's your take on it.




After ten years in security, I have to point out again that the many reports of London having the most CCTV doesn't take into account cameras operated by private entities. There are hundreds of thousands of cameras that are privately owned and operated by security companies, not the state. There are also numerous laws in place to control those who monitor said cameras through licensing.

I don't disagree that London is on the verge of becoming its own police state (run by corrupt cops, politicians and banksters no less) but there is no denying also that the statistics are simplistic at best and don't accurately reflect the reality of CCTV use in the city.



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 07:27 PM
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Who cares about the Olympics anyways?

Just cancel it.



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 07:32 PM
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Originally posted by detachedindividual
I have to point out again that the many reports of London having the most CCTV doesn't take into account cameras operated by private entities.



That has already been noted several times....

Still does not negate the fact that they have the highest percentage of Government [Through various agencies] ran surveillance when compared to other Cities. Having a grocery store, bank or shopping mall etc etc etc monitoring me is no problem. It's to be expected.

Big Brother on the other hand using Tax dollars is a whole other ballgame IMO


edit on 28-6-2012 by SLAYER69 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 07:33 PM
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As for the military position on the top of that building I agree with the tenants, I would be fighting this too.

I can't understand the point of it being there. The only way that thing would be of any use is if we were at war with another nation and were expecting missiles to be directed at London.

This will not stop a hijacked plane, if they fire this thing at a Boeing the level of death and destruction on the ground would potentially be a great deal higher than if it hit a target.

Unless they are aware of something we're not, this can only be intended to be for show, either to create fear in the public or for international posturing. No other explanation makes sense.



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 07:39 PM
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Originally posted by stumason
reply to post by Nspekta
 


No, I won't bloody well accept a freaking fallacy just because people insist I do..

It is also totally disingenuous to use the term Police State. North Korea is a Police State, Communist East Germany was a Police state. Throwing the term around in the hope it will stick doesn't make it so.

Now, if you're going to bleat about being "on topic", people shouldn't bring it up in the first place.

It's also incredibly telling that you're all parroting figures from the working paper (which is where the 300 times a day, more CCTV per capita than anywhere in world etc all came from) without having read it or understood how they came to that conclusion.

The figure of 4.3 million CCTV camera's was based upon a study done by walking around Croydon ONLY and then extrapolating that to every corner of the UK, which is obviously a flawed method. In fact, in a FOI request to the Information Commissioner in December 2009 they admit the figure is most likely incorrect and more recent studies indicate the figure to be much lower than the 4.2 million cameras in the UK they quoted.

But, lets not let facts get in the way of a good conspiracy wank fest, hey...


Ok, here its real simple..

Since you didn't provide a link that validates your 'fact' we shall leave the total at 4.2 million surveillance cameras for now. The population in the UK in 2010 according the the world bank, is 62,323,000 people (Google) So 62,232,000 divided by 4200000 is...? 14.817 (Google)
The population of the USA in 2010 was, 309349700 people (Google). Lets use Aloysius the Gaul's figures
(post)
30 million surveillance cameras..and 309349700 divided by 30000000 is...? 10.311

14.817 per person in the Britain, 10.311 in the USA..

Ok?! Now if you really want to keep going on about it, provide a link OR accept that almost ALL major countries under under huge surveillance it just appears that yours is under more surveillance than the rest!! I am the first to admit that Canada, and i don;t know where we are on the scale of surveillance compared to everyone else, is starting to go the way of the UK and the USA... scary scary thought


Back to the thread,
So in the interest of it, if the government decided to put a missile battery ontop of your apartment building, what would your reaction be?
edit on 6/28/2012 by Nspekta because: eta

edit on 6/28/2012 by Nspekta because: eta



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 07:40 PM
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Its not the missiles that most of these people are worried about its the extra police that will be patrolling the area checking out everyone coming and going. The London council estates are a hive for drug dealing and crime of all sorts. Having the lots of police doing random stop and searches would be bad for illegal business...

I love to have a missile on top of my house. How cool would that be? Plus it would be the safest house in the street with all the police guarding it



edit on 28-6-2012 by PhoenixOD because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 07:55 PM
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Originally posted by detachedindividual
As for the military position on the top of that building I agree with the tenants, I would be fighting this too.

I can't understand the point of it being there. The only way that thing would be of any use is if we were at war with another nation and were expecting missiles to be directed at London.

This will not stop a hijacked plane, if they fire this thing at a Boeing the level of death and destruction on the ground would potentially be a great deal higher than if it hit a target.

Unless they are aware of something we're not, this can only be intended to be for show, either to create fear in the public or for international posturing. No other explanation makes sense.


You're right, whats the point? Like i said, a show of domestic control, intimidation and fear mongering for the local populace AND itself is a likely 'terrorist' target!!



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 08:24 PM
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reply to post by Nspekta
 


Why on earth would the local population be intimidated by anti-aircraft missiles on their roof tops???


do you think it is going to restrict them from bungy jumping or paragliding from their balconies or something??

edit on 28-6-2012 by Aloysius the Gaul because: (no reason given)



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