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Healthcare Ruling: Individual Mandate Ruled CONSTITUTIONAL, entire law upheld.

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posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 09:41 PM
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reply to post by Indigo5
 


The question was in regards to where I concluded that an Appendectomy costs 40K...My answer was that I paid for one out of pocket and thus know the cost. I eloborated on those details.

It is not my job to repeat myself ...it is the posters job to read what they are responding to
while this may be true, apparently it never occurred to you to make an effort to "negotiate" that balance, did it?
just like a good sheeple, the bill says ... so i paid (in full) ... typical.

and, no offense intended here, but this is exactly why you paid the price you did ...

because she was aware that she didn't have Health Coverage, she tried to tough it out thinking it was some horrible stomache flu. By the time she had our child dial 911 because she was doubled over on the kitchen floor, the infection had spread throughout her internal organs
Because you and your wife neglected to provide your own health CARE (by ignoring body signals) and waited until a maximum effort was required to save her life.
Responsible ppl, don't wait til the very last minute to do something about it, and often, they remedy such a situation without the necessity for the extreme care required in your case.

so again, due to your neglect of your own health (or hers as the case may be), you now expect everyone else to shoulder your burden.
how is that fair to anyone but you ??




posted on Jul, 5 2012 @ 09:58 PM
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The real Irony is that it's people from that generation that have helped mould the world into the way it is now. Do you think all of those people that were 18 in 1968 just disappeared?
No they turned into the politicians / business owners / bankers / stock brokers and everyone else that oversaw the Reagan / Thatcher years and made everything in the world about profit.

All of their peace and love ethos got thrown out of the window when they got the chance of owning a Porche and a house

Damn hippies



posted on Jul, 6 2012 @ 12:12 AM
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reply to post by Honor93
 


How do you prevent appendicitis?



posted on Jul, 6 2012 @ 12:40 AM
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Originally posted by habitforming
reply to post by Honor93
 


How do you prevent appendicitis?
when you can identify its function (appendix), i can answer ways to achieve prevention.

during the first half century of my life, i can tell you that i and many others have never experienced "appendicitis" ... so, are we preventing it ??
who knows, maybe, maybe not.

in the meantime, an appendix that has burst is much more emergent and serious than appendicitis.
the thing here is, if your appendix has burst, how does that make it my financial burden ??
we do not control medical costs and neither do you, those "other" ppl do.
regardless of who pays, the medical costs are not being addressed. (by any party)

question for you --> since you are choosing that body part ... with all the medical science and insurance in use over say 200yrs, why hasn't its function been determined and why is the ONLY prescribed method of managing it surgical removal ??



posted on Jul, 6 2012 @ 05:04 AM
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Originally posted by Honor93
when you can identify its function (appendix), i can answer ways to achieve prevention.


So when it comes to telling people they need to listen to their body better in order to avoid paying for being treated for one, you should really shut the # up.



posted on Jul, 6 2012 @ 05:07 AM
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Originally posted by Honor93
if your appendix has burst, how does that make it my financial burden ??


Yeah that is the system we have now.
Obamacare makes it so it is not your financial burden anymore if my appendix bursts.



posted on Jul, 6 2012 @ 05:16 AM
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Originally posted by habitforming

Originally posted by Honor93
if your appendix has burst, how does that make it my financial burden ??


Yeah that is the system we have now.
Obamacare makes it so it is not your financial burden anymore if my appendix bursts.
Again, I will ask you, How does Obamacare force a person that can't afford health insurance now, to "chip in" and pay for it? Where will that money come from?
edit on 6-7-2012 by butcherguy because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 6 2012 @ 05:31 AM
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reply to post by Honor93
 


how does the kid's runny nose make their care my burden???

ya see there's the problem in a nutshell...

no one has a problem with helping the truly poor, the problem, and it is a serious one, is when we are forced to help those poor live better standards than we can afford to live ourselves!!!

if the person;s appendicitis isn't your problem, then why is the kid's runny nose?? or for that matter the fourth or fifth childbirth of that single, never married mom??

I won't go to the doctor unless I am half dead or the problem is greatly interferring with my ability to do what I need to do. I could bankrupt my family if I were to go and take care of everything I needed to take care of, even with insurance!!!
so, why am I paying for the healthcare costs for that single parent family who just wants to be reassured that the runny nose is nothing more than a runny nose???
obama care is not providing affordable healthcare for all americans,
and I still say, quite taking money out of my pocket to pay for some people's healthcare while yous just turn a blind eye to some who truly need it desparately and can't afford it either, but well, they are trying to do the right thing and not force you to take pitch in and take care of their financial needs also!!

either pull all of the money out of the system, and let a free market stabilize it down to something we can live with, or make an honest attempt to ensure that those who are paying the tab get the healthcare that they need at a price they can live with...

obama care does nothing more than ensuring the insurance companies get what they want!!!!




edit on 6-7-2012 by dawnstar because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 6 2012 @ 05:39 AM
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reply to post by dawnstar
 

Well said.
A case in point would be my ex-wife.
She relies on the government for her healthcare, part of her rent and she is on food stamps. How is it that she can afford to have breast augmentation (for purely cosmetic reasons) and new tattoos?

Hers is not a rare story.



posted on Jul, 6 2012 @ 05:58 AM
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reply to post by habitforming
 


So when it comes to telling people they need to listen to their body better in order to avoid paying for being treated for one, you should really shut the # up
why ?? if you don't tax your body to the point of breaking, surgical intervention wouldn't be necessary, would it ?


Obamacare makes it so it is not your financial burden anymore if my appendix bursts
are you crazy ?? it's my burden now, especially if you don't have insurance.
what about ObeyMeCare changes that ??
oh yeah, it INCREASES my portion of that bill, got it.



posted on Jul, 6 2012 @ 06:12 AM
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reply to post by dawnstar
 

how does the kid's runny nose make their care my burden???
why would you use an ER for a runny nose ??
your kids runny nose only becomes my burden if you are not paying your dr bill.

actually, i still don't see the "problem" as your kids runny nose suggests.
we already pay for such a nonsense burden, why should i or anyone have to pay more?


if the person;s appendicitis isn't your problem, then why is the kid's runny nose?? or for that matter the fourth or fifth childbirth of that single, never married mom??
never said it was but it seems like you are insisting on it ... as far as i'm concerned, ^^^ this here strawman argument is really sucking air.
point is -> it isn't my problem and i'd prefer it not be made one.
as for the welfare advantage, that's another topic for another thread.


obama care is not providing affordable healthcare for all americans
agreed. it is NOT providing healthcare to all Americans, period.


and I still say, quite taking money out of my pocket to pay for some people's healthcare while yous just turn a blind eye to some who truly need it desparately and can't afford it either, but well, they are trying to do the right thing and not force you to take pitch in and take care of their financial needs also!!
ummm, not quite sure what you're saying here but when you figure it out, please share.


obama care does nothing more than ensuring the insurance companies get what they want
i can agree with this ^^^ entirely.



posted on Jul, 6 2012 @ 08:47 AM
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Originally posted by Honor93
why ?? if you don't tax your body to the point of breaking, surgical intervention wouldn't be necessary, would it ?


Thank god for you, doctors and teachers exist.
You cannot tell me what you can do to cause appendicitis.
You cannot tell me what you can to do prevent it.
Yet you blame someone for getting it?

Cool. Tell me what my grandpa did to give himself cancer.


are you crazy ?? it's my burden now, especially if you don't have insurance.


You have no idea what you are talking about. It is no longer your burden as it was before Obamacare. If you do not have insurance the only burden is your penalty.


what about ObeyMeCare changes that ??
oh yeah, it INCREASES my portion of that bill, got it.


It means I no longer have to chip in for people who choose not to buy insurance. It means the same for you. You do not seem to have a clue here.
edit on 6-7-2012 by habitforming because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 6 2012 @ 08:51 AM
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Originally posted by butcherguy

Originally posted by habitforming

Originally posted by Honor93
if your appendix has burst, how does that make it my financial burden ??


Yeah that is the system we have now.
Obamacare makes it so it is not your financial burden anymore if my appendix bursts.
Again, I will ask you, How does Obamacare force a person that can't afford health insurance now, to "chip in" and pay for it? Where will that money come from?
edit on 6-7-2012 by butcherguy because: (no reason given)


Hey, here is a thought.
You should learn a little something about the ACA before we pretend to keep discussing it.
Ok?
I feel like it will really help.



posted on Jul, 6 2012 @ 09:16 AM
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Originally posted by habitforming

Originally posted by butcherguy

Originally posted by habitforming

Originally posted by Honor93
if your appendix has burst, how does that make it my financial burden ??


Yeah that is the system we have now.
Obamacare makes it so it is not your financial burden anymore if my appendix bursts.
Again, I will ask you, How does Obamacare force a person that can't afford health insurance now, to "chip in" and pay for it? Where will that money come from?
edit on 6-7-2012 by butcherguy because: (no reason given)


Hey, here is a thought.

You should learn a little something about the ACA before we pretend to keep discussing it.
Ok?
I feel like it will really help.

Maybe you can have another thought, one that encompasses a proper answer.
I can't expect an answer to a simple question?
You don't have an answer to the simple question. If you did, you would provide one wouldn't you?

If you know so darned much about it the ACA, why not answer the simple question? By telling me to learn, instead of actually teaching me, you aren't doing much to deny ignorance.

Again.... How is Obamacare going to force a person that can't afford to pay for healthcare insurance to 'chip in'?

Can you answer? Or will you just shrug it off again, saying that you can't answer my question because I don't know enough?
edit on 6-7-2012 by butcherguy because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 6 2012 @ 09:31 AM
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reply to post by habitforming
 

Yet you blame someone for getting it?
never did any such thing but you can twist it any way you want.


You have no idea what you are talking about. It is no longer your burden as it was before Obamacare. If you do not have insurance the only burden is your penalty.
and your incessant, non-effective rambling is doing what exactly?
actually, i still have the same burden i did before ObeyMeCare and i'll have the same burden after since i won't be paying any penalty (however, if i'm charged one, you'll be paying for it with a subsidy from your tax funds, rather mine - since i don't pay an income tax)


It means I no longer have to chip in for people who choose not to buy insurance. It means the same for you.
and how do you figure that ??
you have never contributed to my health care, i pay my own way.
(well, if you're old enough, maybe once, many moons ago and when i had insurance to boot, but that's another story for another thread)

as for increases, insurance premiums are already rising.
healthcare costs are rising faster now than ever.
medicaid and medicare are still operational (same as we've always paid for)
so, what about this don't i understand ??

and btw, are you even aware that the "ACA" references canine/dog legislation ??
not sure about you but i'm more concerned with the effects of the PPACA.



posted on Jul, 6 2012 @ 10:37 AM
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Originally posted by habitforming

It means I no longer have to chip in for people who choose not to buy insurance. It means the same for you. You do not seem to have a clue here.
edit on 6-7-2012 by habitforming because: (no reason given)


If "you" are not chipping in for us any more, then who is? You can't say we are, because we're not buying the insurance per your argument. If someone else is, then who? If no one is, then you are finally admitting you are just willing to leave us for dead? Don't get me wrong - if you are, I'm fine with that, because all I really want is for you to keep your furry mitts off of my health decisions. Just man up enough to admit that your intent is to kick us to the curb to fend for ourselves, because seriously, I'm fine with that. I don't plan on living forever any how.

if you are already willing to leave us for dead, then why whine on about forcing us to pay into your insurance lotto?



posted on Jul, 6 2012 @ 11:21 AM
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reply to post by nenothtu
 

It is magic, this Obamacare. It will force the poor, who can not afford insurance now, to somehow 'chip in', taking the burden off everyone else that currently pays for it (taxpayers and people that pay for healthcare insurance).

The added layer of government bureaucracy will not add any cost either! Very magical!

We really should export the magical Obamacare plan to third world countries and help them out a bit too.



posted on Jul, 6 2012 @ 11:42 AM
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Originally posted by Honor93
so again, due to your neglect of your own health (or hers as the case may be), you now expect everyone else to shoulder your burden.
how is that fair to anyone but you?


Wrong on all counts...not interested in arguing with ignorance.

She was un-insured, she did not neglect her health and I expect no one to shoulder any burden. I paid for it out of pocket. You are working hard to position what happened to my wife in a context that affords you to make a mindless idealogical rebutal and frankly, why should I care?



posted on Jul, 6 2012 @ 11:48 AM
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Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by nenothtu
 

It is magic, this Obamacare. It will force the poor, who can not afford insurance now, to somehow 'chip in', taking the burden off everyone else that currently pays for it (taxpayers and people that pay for healthcare insurance).

The added layer of government bureaucracy will not add any cost either! Very magical!

We really should export the magical Obamacare plan to third world countries and help them out a bit too.


Yeah, ObamaCare sounds too good to be true. Hmmm......

----------
Maybe it is?


What are the odds that the true costs of ObamaCare will soar ?



posted on Jul, 6 2012 @ 11:56 AM
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Originally posted by dawnstar
I won't go to the doctor unless I am half dead or the problem is greatly interferring with my ability to do what I need to do.


In short Dawn...that is both the problem and the answer.

Healthcare reform, in allowing early diagnosis of medical conditions, in allowing folks to go to the doctor before they are "half-dead"...saves money. Diagnosing skin cancer or diabetes early is pennies compared to later diagnosis which could involve both death and amputations and literally 100's of billions in costs annually.

There are profound cost savings in early treatment and diagnosis of diseases. Healthcare reform makes preventitive screenings...mamograms, annual check-ups etc. free of cost. And that saves trillions as opposed to late stage diagnosis.

Also there is a reason that policies that are part of a larger pool are cheaper than individual policies...can you tell me why?

The idea that everybody will pay more to cover the un-insured is faulty on many grounds, with the exception of political rhetorical purposes.

Having everyone insured SAVES money...for everyone. Those poor who refuse to go to the doctor until they are significantly sick still get treated, only at an exponentially higher cost than if they had sought treatment early on. Who gets stuck with those costs? Everyone...either through medicare/medicaid or inflated hospital and doctor bills for actual paying customers.

Early diagnosis and treatment saves Trillions.
edit on 6-7-2012 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)




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