Healthcare Ruling: Individual Mandate Ruled CONSTITUTIONAL, entire law upheld.

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher


The penalty was always administered as a tax to be enforced by the IRS...it's in the bill...always has been...that is why the administration argued that point.

The mandate is still in effect...if you don't buy insurance, you are penalized with this tax. It doesn't matter if it isn't covered under the commerce clause...it is covered as a tax.

Bottom line...the entire law is upheld...it wasn't re-classified as a tax, it always was a tax...the bill isn't re-classified as a revenue bill, you still need a super majority to repeal it entirely.

Wow, really? 0bama and ilk didn't say numerous times in interviews and TV that it was not a tax?
Have you really bought into this lie so much that it is your reality?

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher


Go watch the ABC interview...Obama rejected that it was a TAX INCREASE on the American public.

He never once said that this is not a tax.

Ok Mr. Alinksy.
So it is not a TAX INCREASE, but just a Plain Tax.

Man, you have sold your soul to the devil haven't you???

reply to post by Xcathdra


OS is playing semantics.
He wants a direct quote from Kagan stating "I will recuse myself from the ACA hearings".

He is aiming for the Clinton style of debate.

reply to post by macman


The White House Chief of Staff Still insists it's not a tax.



They can't get it straight

Obama Team: Obamacare Still Not A Tax


Roberts says it's a tax ?

Chief Justice Roberts: It's Not A Tax, It Is A Tax; It's Law, But It's Not 'Unlawful' to Break

Reply to post by xuenchen

The administration is saying it's not a tax because it doesn't work the same way as other taxes. A vast minority will have to pay the penalty tax and it is certainly not subjected to everyone.
Falling under the commerce clause of taxation is the way it becomes legal. So it is semantics. It is legally a tax, but in effect it isn't the same kind of tax that we Americans hate. I think the president is trying to hold onto the idea that middle class Americans will not see their taxes go up. He's only partially right though. Many will not see their taxes go up. Some will refuse insurance and have to pay the "tax" though. They're essentially choosing the tax though.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Originally posted by pwndnewb
Healthcare is not health insurance. They are two separate things.

Okay....Half right. They are certainly two different things...but not "seperate".

Boat insurance and neurosurgery are two seperate things.

Health Insurance pays for Healthcare...absent insurance, private or public, healthcare is neither paid for nor provided. They are the precise opposite of seperate.

I have to wonder where a post begining with that whopper of a mistruth is headed.

Originally posted by pwndnewb
Healthcare is obtained from a medical professional. It includes the diagnosis and treatment of an injury or illness. In my opinion it also includes the patient making choices about actions and their possible consequences (such as eating habits, smoking, alchoholsm, drug addiction, being physically active, etc...).

Okay..

Originally posted by pwndnewb
Insurance is a totally different thing. It is all about risk.

Risk is premised on choice...it assumes that consumers have the option of insuring themselves, unfortunately for Millions of Americans who cannot afford insurance or have pre-existing conditions or are dropped by their insurers..."risk" is not an option, it is a luxury.

"Risk" is certainly relevant to insurers though. "Medical Loss Ratio"...which is what insurers brag about to Wall Street. The amount of what they collect that they actually pay out toward healthcare for the payees. Or put another way...they are rewarded with profits for denying claims and dropping patients from coverage who are bad "risks"..."bad risks" are people who actually need healthcare.

Originally posted by pwndnewb
The majority of the healthcare industry and ALL of the insurance industry is all about the almighty dollar.

Yes and unfortunately the viruses and genetic mutations that fuel cancer and other diseases do not understand or care about the almighty dollar. Only the "industry" that treats them. This is a unique disconnect. An absence of a critical variable in the supply and demand equation that underpins capitalism.

Thier is a fixed supply of disease and car accidents that do not respond to price. There is no consumer choice in getting cancer, but the insurance company can choose to pay for the treatment and the healthcare providers can choose the price of that treatment...the consumer's choice involves treatment or death.

Originally posted by pwndnewb
something they may or may not use

This is one of the most illogical arguments I see in this debate. We will ALL require medical help at some stage unless you die quick and young. Getting treatment when you are hit by a car is not a choice. Taking your child to the doctor when their life is at risk is not a chioce. Having that cancerous mole removed is not an option...unless you consider death (yourself or a loved one) a good and viable option to the expense.

reply to post by macman

Eric Fehrnstrom, a senior adviser to Mitt Romney, admitted Monday that he actually agrees with the Obama administration on something: the individual mandate in the Affordable Care Act is a "penalty" and not a "tax."

www.huffingtonpost.com...

Originally posted by nenothtu

I didn't ignore those questions. I answered them right here. that was over two days ago, and answered in a timely manner.

You must have missed the response - or just skipped it.

Sort of like you are doing right now with MY questions.

WHO is ignoring WHOSE questions?

You did indeed ignore all my questions but one. You admitted you have been to a doctor.

Originally posted by Indigo5
reply to post by macman

 

Eric Fehrnstrom, a senior adviser to Mitt Romney, admitted Monday that he actually agrees with the Obama administration on something: the individual mandate in the Affordable Care Act is a "penalty" and not a "tax."

www.huffingtonpost.com...

Too bad a couple more Supreme Court justices couldn't see it that way also.

I don't like when people use the term 'penalty tax' to describe it.

reply to post by Indigo5


Yeah, Huffington Post is nice and all, but what was is that the SCOTUS deemed it?????????????????

Originally posted by macman
reply to post by Indigo5

 

Yeah, Huffington Post is nice and all,

How about "The Hill"?

Romney team agrees with Obama: Individual mandate not a tax

A spokesman for Mitt Romney said the former Massachusetts governor agrees with President Obama that the individual mandate upheld by the Supreme Court last week is a penalty or a fine, rather than a tax.

But the ruling and the conflicting statements highlights the trouble Romney has in going after the president on healthcare. As governor of Massachusetts, Romney instituted a healthcare law that includes an individual mandate, and at the time, he too portrayed it as a penalty or a fine, rather than a tax.

thehill.com...

reply to post by Indigo5

What is the point, other then to deflect and point to something else?

SCOTUS ruled it as a TAX.

The SCOTUS says it is a tax. That would seem to be the final word for now.
That is what made the individual mandate constitutional.

I see it as a penalty. So did Obama. Apparently Mitt Romney sees it that way too. A lot of people do.

I wonder why certain SCOTUS justices don't see it as a penalty?

Originally posted by butcherguy
The SCOTUS says it is a tax. That would seem to be the final word for now.
That is what made the individual mandate constitutional.

I see it as a penalty. So did Obama. Apparently Mitt Romney sees it that way too. A lot of people do.

I wonder why certain SCOTUS justices don't see it as a penalty?

I'm just going to keep calling it the "Obamacare tax". My insurance premiums already almost doubled since the Obamacare tax was signed into law. If it goes much higher my boss is just going to drop our coverage all together.

Originally posted by macman
reply to post by Indigo5

 

What is the point, other then to deflect and point to something else?

SCOTUS ruled it as a TAX.

The SCOTUS ruled it as a "penalty" characterized as a tax. The same way Mitt Romney, the GOP nominee for President, implemented it in Mass.

The Affordable Care Act's requirement that certain individuals pay a financial penalty for not obtaining health insurance may reasonably be characterized as a tax. Because the Constitution permits such a tax, it is not our role to forbid it, or to pass upon its wisdom or fairness.

The rest is just semantics.

reply to post by Indigo5


Why do you keep bringing up Romney? I don't care about Romney.

If you care to research it, it was deemed a TAX, as a penalty. But, still a tax is a tax.

No new taxes huh? Did 0bama take "Tax speeches 101" from Bush senior?

For all that support 0bama, you really should be mad, as the Insurance Corps came out the winner here. The Citizen is the biggest loser, with the Govt tightening the grip on our throats.

reply to post by xuenchen


Is a reason they are claiming is not a tax, that is because in order to claim is a tax the entire bill has to pass the house and senate after the rewording is done, only congress can create and impose taxes, yes the bill is still in lala land due to Justice Roberts decision.

Now the Obama administration wants to impose the tax aka penalty without having to send the bill back again to congress.

Is more behind the decision by Roberts and the bill that people think, is more complicate than just a game of wording.

Originally posted by macman
The Citizen is the biggest loser, with the Govt tightening the grip on our throats.

Honestly...exhausted with the BS rhetoric. The government is not tightening it's "grip on your throat"....It's not "socialism"...Obama is not hitler...no one is taking your guns away...and Mexicans and Muslims are not taking over America...

Just nonsense...fear driven, xenophobic BS...

And frankley I am not even offended by it anymore, just exhausted that segment of the country wants to see a birth-certificate or that the same tea-party "legal scholars" who claimed the bill would implant you with micro-chips and institute death panels is now saying that Chief Justice Roberts does not understand the constitution.

It's just exhausting amounts of prideful ignorance....and at a time when the country needs real solutions.

Niether money, nor lies will anchor America to the repeatedly failed policies of the GOP.

At are core we are not social darwinists...we want to conduct a war on poverty, not the poor.

Come this time next year...the "new GOP" will be the "old GOP" and that will be a good thing.

America deserves much better than the greediest, the most dishonest...the most cold-hearted as it's leaders and Conservatives and Liberals both have had enough.

Here...watch the tide turn...
Poll: Independent voters want GOP to stop fighting health law

A slight majority of independent voters sided with Democrats on that question in the latest Kaiser poll. Fifty-one percent of all independents, as well as independents who do not lean toward either party, said opponents should “stop their efforts to block the law and move on to other national problems.”

thehill.com...

reply to post by Indigo5


So, I am not forced to purchase something, even if i don't want to?