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Healthcare Ruling: Individual Mandate Ruled CONSTITUTIONAL, entire law upheld.

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posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 11:09 AM
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Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by macman
 



Great, so I am taxed MORE for that.
That is fantastic.

Looks like I need to get a second job to provide for others.


Or...just cover yourself with health insurance so that when you rushed to the ER with a medical emergency then you can actually pay the bills and not drive up costs for the rest of us.


Most of us here are covered by insurance...the costs are so high because we give out free healthcare to those that don't pay at ALL. Plus were are already paying for the uninsured its called Medicaid and the sad thing is with that its not even going to American citizens...




posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 11:09 AM
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Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by FreeFromTheHerd
 



You mean funding that doesnt actually exist?


Would you like to explain why the funding doesn't exist???



Sure.

Want pics of the debt clock, or a tally of how much the government owes versus what it has in revenue?

We are already at record level debt, where do you think the money is going to come from?



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 11:10 AM
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reply to post by macman
 


If you have health insurance then why would your taxes go up?



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 11:10 AM
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Originally posted by TheRedneck
As I am understanding this, it can be upheld if it is a tax, which pretty much means insurance will have to be administered through taxation itself instead of requiring individuals to buy private insurance. The law is constitutional if re-written in that manner, unconstitutional if requiring individuals to purchase their own insurance.

Confusing, but that's what I get.

TheRedneck


How I read this is, the tax part of this bill is only applicable to those people who are not insured either through purchase, employment or State/Federal coverage. Those people would be levied with the Income Tax of 1% (the amount that seems to be quoted most with a possible minimum of $695).

At this point in time, since a single payer government insurance is not in effect, they cannot regulate the insurance industry itself through taxation. The Insurance companies refused to cede their profits. However, I do believe that the State/Federal medical plans provided to a large portion of the population (Medicare/Medicaid) will work their way into increased taxation through government spending, because tens of millions more people will be categorized to fall under that coverage.

This is going to have a devastating effect across the board, in my opinion. Because who is going to fund all this? We are through higher taxation.

Even if you have been compliant, abided by the law and maintained insurance by purchase or through your employer, you will be subjected to higher taxes overall to fund the coverage mandated by law to those people who are financially incapable of paying for their own insurance and who are provided that coverage through the government by poverty qualifications or by subsidy.

Although this may be a godsend for those people who have been uninsured due to their inability, financially, to maintain insurance, it is overall going to turn into a vicious financial nightmare of unpredictible proportions. Again, in my opinion. BT
edit on 28-6-2012 by BearTruth because: Clarified taxation amount.



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 11:11 AM
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Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by beezzer
 


People's tax will only go up if they choose for it to go up.

Of course...they could just be a responsible member of society and buy health insurance.


You could also be a responsible member of society and quit drinking any alcohol, eating any fat, drinking any sodas, cut back on carbs. Drive slower, get rid of any motorcycles you may have, and quit doing anything that may be considered dangerous. In fact why don't you just come to me so I can approve what you eat and do. I don't want you contributing to our increasing health cost - we are all in this together now.

Before now I paid for my own medical bills even a $10,000 surgery without insurance. But now I want to tell you how to live.

edit on 28-6-2012 by MegaMind because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 11:11 AM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 


I am a responsible member of society, I pay my own medical bills. However, if this law stands, you, along with every other American, will now have to help pay them.



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 11:11 AM
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Originally posted by Cosmic911
Two comments or observations to make. I know it isn't exactly apples to apples here, but we have a law regarding insurance requirements for automobiles, boats, snowmobiles, jetskis, motorcycles, etc. There isn't a single vehicle on the road (exaggeration, I know) that isn't or shouldn't be registered and insured, including a licensed driver! Its funny that we are mandated to maintain car insurance but something as significant as health insurance is only recently an issue? Just sounds silly when I say it out loud.


I own a boat. I do not have a license or insurance nor am I required to have either. The day that is required in the US will be the day I renounce my citizenship.

I do not know enough about this health insurance mandate, it seems to me this bill was written by the insurance companies with profits in mind not one's health.



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 11:11 AM
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Yeah, It sure is terrible that poor people will now have a fighting chance when it comes to healthcare. I mean, Why should I have to pay for them?

Sarcasm aside, Why does any of this even matter, If you have a private health insurance policy you get to keep it, If you don't you get one. In a country where one illness, Accident or blindside could bankrupt your entire life work ,Bills for something serious like Cancer or an Auto-Immune disease could easily fly into 6 digits, So why should people who have grafted hard their entire lives have it scratched out by an illness just because you disagree with the person implementing it/Follow a piece of paper written 200 years ago more reverently than the bible.

You got yourself into this mess by accepting this style of healthcare in the first place. The theory of "You best have health insurance or god ever loving help you" made what has just happened a reality. If maybe you adopted a -shock horror- European socialistic model of Healthcare you wouldn't be in this awful mess. And before you say it, No, European healthcare isn't comparable to a triage tent during WW1. It is tax payer funded, If you don't have the means to pay for a very expensive medical procedure, It's paid for you, Long waiting lists? Yes. But you also have the option to buy private health insurance and get the same level (If not better) of care you would in the US with an Insurance policy. But no, You'd rather do it this way. Hilarious
edit on 28-6-2012 by Mart0 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 11:12 AM
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Originally posted by DJW001
reply to post by artnut
 



No choice anymore, the person is saying they pay cash. It should be their choice.


They could still pay cash; in fact, most people would rather pay cash than run the risk of driving their premiums up.


Your'e right, they still can pay cash, but now, they have to pay a penalty for doing so. Simply because they take care of their health issues through their own resources.



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 11:12 AM
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Originally posted by the4thhorseman

Most of us here are covered by insurance...the costs are so high because we give out free healthcare to those that don't pay at ALL. Plus were are already paying for the uninsured its called Medicaid and the sad thing is with that its not even going to American citizens...


You forgot MadiCare, SCHIP, Welfare and ILLEGALs skipping out on their bill, so the Hospital needs to try to right if off.

SCOTUS deemed the Penalty a TAX.



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 11:12 AM
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Originally posted by spinalremain

Originally posted by the4thhorseman

Originally posted by spinalremain

Originally posted by the4thhorseman
In case my question is lost..what about the 48-49% of people that don't pay taxes now...ARE they exempt from this tax if they opt out of having insurance?


Right. Babies will not have to pay the tax.


Sarcasm will get you know where friend..clearly you are missing the point. Right now about only 51% of Americans pay into the system. They others do not..since this IS a tax are these other 49% exempt from it?

IF we are all mandated to have it then everyone should be required to pay into it NO EXCEPTIONS..plus close all loop holes allowing those here illegally to have access to it.


You do know that babies and children are included in that 49% right? That figure is a talking point and it does nothing to further the discussion. I didn;t mean to sound like a jerk. Sorry.
www.dailymail.co.uk...


NP..didn't take it that way at all. But do you see what I am saying. I would like to know how that is going to work out..so will those people get the money back in the form of a tax return? I



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 11:12 AM
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Originally posted by AshleyD
A worthy question for those defending this. Sorry if it has been brought up already. This thread is going too fast for me to keep up. Credit for this find goes out to another staffer who I'm not sure has/will post in this thread:

From 2009:

Obama: Mandate is Not a Tax


OBAMA: My critics say everything is a tax increase. My critics say that I’m taking over every sector of the economy. You know that. Look, we can have a legitimate debate about whether or not we’re going to have an individual mandate or not, but…

STEPHANOPOULOS: But you reject that it’s a tax increase?

OBAMA: I absolutely reject that notion.


More at the article.

Thoughts?
edit on 6/28/2012 by AshleyD because: (no reason given)


Although I like this ruling and I like the act I cannot defend Obama's rejection that this isnt a tax increase. I will be interested to see how this effects the costs of health care and how much of an increase this will actually be.



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 11:13 AM
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reply to post by jrod
 




You got that right.

All the while the partisan bickering continues. People are already stating lies about their taxes and so forth.

We can't even agree about the facts of the ACA.

Meanwhile the celebrating continues at corporate HQ.



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 11:13 AM
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Originally posted by Ben81
will it mean everyone will have a new tax to pay for the Obama Health Plan ?
except the military and federal employees


I lived in Massachusetts when Romney was governor and "Romneycare" was in force. In part, the law states that if you're collecting unemployment you get free healthcare. When your unemployment benefits run out, so does your healthcare. At that point you are required to purchase your own insurance, or pay a $1000 fine at tax time. There was also an extra, seperate tax form that you have to fill out. Obamacare works the same way.

They claim to care about the poor, then hit someone with no income, and no unemployment benefits with a $1000 tax. Good idea. If you think forclosures are bad now, just wait until after the next election when Obama really screws up the economy and people's houses are taken by the government because some poor sucker can't afford health insurance on top of his mortgage.
edit on 6/28/2012 by AntiNWO because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 11:14 AM
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Yea it's a tax....... the irs can now take everything you own for failing to comply . I truely hope God smites Obama and the supreme court. to ash.



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 11:14 AM
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Originally posted by spinalremain
reply to post by macman
 


If you have health insurance then why would your taxes go up?


When others can't pay, where do the funds come from? If they are deemed exempt from the TAX, where does other money come from to make up the difference?



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 11:14 AM
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Originally posted by TheRedneck
The individual mandate has been struck down, but it has also been allowed to stand in another form: as a tax. That means that every person in the country will now be required to pay a tax for insurance in addition to all the other taxes we pay.

That includes every person whether they are for or against this law, whether they are insured or not. Taxes must by definition be applied equally.


No...you are not taxed if you have insurance. Taxes are not applied equally. People take credits and deductions all the time? Those that cannot afford also have subsidies to pay for it and also don't get taxed.


Originally posted by TheRedneck
The allowance for private insurance can be left standing, but only via tax credits based on insurance costs already paid. That means if you have health care paid for by your employer, it probably won't count; you didn't pay it. Your employer may get some tax benefits for it, since they paid it. I doubt that, however.


If you have insurance via your employer...again, you will not be taxed for not having health insurance.


Originally posted by TheRedneck
It means that, as a primary insurer, the Federal government will now decide what procedures are covered and what are not. I hope they do a better job than the insurers; I do not expect such.


No...Doctors continue to make those decisions...the Gov. funds research to determine if given proceedures actually work or are just BS ways for surgeons and docs to make money...or the reverse research that determines that lessor used treatments or proceedures that have great outcomes...then they make doctors and insurance companies aware of it. The gov does not dictate what is covered. They issue research as opposed to the pharma companies research or other parties that have a vested interest in selling a product.



Originally posted by TheRedneck
It means that literally millions of new patients will be filling doctors offices and hospitals. It is well-documented that those with insurance will go to a doctor or hospital much more often than those who don't. that means there will be longer lines for you to wait in when you want to see a doctor. I know around here it is already hard to get an appointment.


Yes...if only those other sick people would die already you wouldn't have to read those dumb magazines waiting for the doc.


Originally posted by TheRedneck
It means that the cost will go up.


Oft quiped....but refuted by objective analysis.


Originally posted by TheRedneck
It means that Obama will go down in history as the creator of the largest single tax increase in the history of the country.


It means that Obama will go down in history as the President that did what every President of the past 30 years has promised to do, but didn't.


Originally posted by TheRedneck
more businesses out of business. There go the jobs. There goes the stock market as people cannot buy with no money. There goes the economy and a newly-accelerating national debt. There goes higher taxes to cover a financially decaying population. And there eventually goes health care, as the money finally dries up.

It means the poor will become poorer, It means suffering, despair, loss of hope, and destitution for millions of Americans.


Honestly Red...when did you get a job fear mongering for the GOP...Obamacare=Apocolypse

Glen Beck is better suited to make those claims at his whiteboard...from you it is just dissapointing.

That there is some crazy, apocalyptic drivel...and all because someone can now go see the doctor?

Funny that hasn't occured in the 100 some other developed nations that have more robust national healthcare.


Originally posted by TheRedneck
Perhaps it is somewhat ironic that Wednesday is the Fourth of July. To me, it is a sad reminder of what once was and can never be again.


Don't despair Red...truth is we have not been the "greatest nation on earth" for a while now...but we are about to be again...a good time to be alive



edit on 28-6-2012 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 11:14 AM
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Originally posted by underduck
I think some of you guys are missing the point. This is a HUGE human rights victory. Giving everyone right to health care is far more important than any petty squabbles we have with the current or past administrations.


I don't understand what you are saying? We all had the RIGHT to health care all along, just could not afford it. Now we will still not be able to afford it but are supposed to purchase it anyway. This when they can barely pay for their necessities already like food.



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 11:15 AM
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Originally posted by MegaMind

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by beezzer
 


People's tax will only go up if they choose for it to go up.

Of course...they could just be a responsible member of society and buy health insurance.


You could also be a responsible member of society and quit drinking any alcohol, eating any fat, drinking any sodas, cut back on carbs. Drive slower, get rid of any motorcycles you may have, and quit doing anything that may be considered dangerous. In fact why don't you just come to me so I can approve what you eat and do. I don't want you contributing to our increasing health cost - we are all in this together now.

Before now I paid for my own medical bills even a $10,000 surgery without insurance. But now I want to tell you how to live.

edit on 28-6-2012 by MegaMind because: (no reason given)


OS remark that you should just be a responsible member is about as Elitist as it gets.


Ex

posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 11:15 AM
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reply to post by underduck
 


I will be interested to see how this effects the costs of health care and how much
of an increase this will actually be.

Exactly, Why is healthcare so expensive???




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